So I've been playing with this thing a bit and collecting parts while the wife had me busy rebuilding most of the house. Now that's over and I've got most of the construction debris out of the garage so I thought I'd start a build thread to document whatever progress occurs now that I have time to get to work on this thing.

I fell out of cars for a couple of years while I chased around the country with my career. Tough to build a car while you're moving every 6 months. When we wound up back in Spokane permanently, I bought this chassis as my birthday present. 1975, originally a 1.8. Chassis is pretty clean. I've already installed billet front hubs and redrilled rears at 4x114.4 so I could keep my enkeis from a previous project, they'll probably get powder coated black before this is all over. Also went with the upgraded master cyl and 3" 911 front calipers.



Only slightly scary rust is in the hell hole. Longs look pretty good and hell hole should be a pretty easy fix. The pic makes it look worse than it feels under a screwdriver. Obviously the batt tray is a bit shot:



The engine and tranny are out of a 2.8l 12v V6 A4. It seems to fit well after a bit of the trunk was relieved of it's dignity:



The throttle comes out the back of the variable runner length manifold so it would stick into the trunk, except it's symmetrical so I should be able to turn it around and gain some space after I grind the power steering pump mounts off the block.

The output flanges on this tranny have a HUGE diameter AND they're offset by quite a few mm. I'm going to stick with stock size CV joints for now and see where that goes. 200ft/lbs shouldn't grenade them immediately. To pull this all together, I had a local guy I've worked with before throw some stainless on the lathe:



A bit heavy, but I intentionally left a bunch of material there in case I have to go to bigger CVs later. Risky move, but I think I'm gonna take it. Too late now in any case.

As you can see, the belt array is directly in line with where the stock cross bar was, and with the audi tranny, the crank (and whole engine) are a bit lower than the stock type IV so motor mounts aren't gonna be as easy as I had hoped:



The steel for the mounts is in the garage. Tomorrow, I start tackling that problem.

cant wait to see your work. how much does your new drivetrain weight ? good luck!! DAve

If you swap to 930 CV's you can adjust the engine forward. They can withstand greater angles over stock ones. Most V8 conversions set the trans back 1.5 inches without problems. Looks like a cool build. look forward to the progress.

There's different size flanges on the audi trannies. 110mm and then these buggers that are at 114 or some gawdawefull size (my notes are downstairs, I could go find them). With the big flanges, you have to go to adapters as there's just no common spline count axle that'll fit a normal CV that size. This one is going to be lined up perfectly with the axle line. If I move 1 cam vent and turn the intake backwards, I can even put the piece of the trunk I relieved back.

If I was to do this over, I'd measure the output flanges before buying the tranny

I have no idea. Truth be told it's probably a transitional power plant. The Audi V8s share the bell housing and motor mounts with the v6s. Primary goal is to get the chassis on the Audi platform, then start shopping for a sexy engine

I've got probably 1200 miles including auto-xing and the tail of the dragon on my aluminum adapters so far and they are still holding up running 25" dia sticky tires. Your stainless should outlast everything you put on that car.

Cool, I like the Audi engines. Just becareful shopping for the V8. Don't get one that needs rebuilding or any work. From the reasearch I did there are no bearing sets for Audi V8's. Audi wants to sell long blocks not parts.

Interesting. I've been thinking of doing a second set in aluminum. I've got my own backyard foundry so I can cast them and have the machinist finish them up on the cheep. What grade aluminum and thickness are you running? What torque?

He threw me the materials free on this one for a previous favor, so stainless it was!

There's no bearings, rings or any possibility of honing the block. Gotta shop REAL hard to get a good one. A man can dream. In the mean time, I intend to do abhorant things to this poor engine. There's a pair of GT-28s and a megasquirt 3 on the shelf and the engine geometry is terrifyingly close to the 8v engines we spent too much time blowing up in the old hardcoreVW days.

First job is to get it running stock, we'll see where it goes from there.

This is the start of a great build. Looking forward to the updates!

Well mine were made by a friend of a friend at a helicopter parts machine shop.
All I could get from him, was that the forged slug material was normally machined for rotor parts. I don't know the thickness off hand, but I did share the specs with you awhile back. I'm working with 205hp and 230tq. The torque is coming in around 1700-1900 rpm so they are hanging tough.

Crap, you're right. I've got those numbers buried away somewhere. I'm barely into this build and I've already forgotten more than I remember. Probably not a good sign.

The torque is in line with what I'm headed for so that's a good sign. You're running 100mm CVs though aren't you?

Yep, type 4 inners and outers.

If your going bigger on power some day, you'd might as well consider the 110mm and only have to do it once. The part I'm not crazy about is the distance of the inner joint from where the flange exits the trans. In the loooong run, the torque forces that far out on the output shafts may take it's toll on the bearings and seals.
Ideally I'd like to have been able to swap Boxster output flanges, but it appeared that the box would have to be opened up, and that was not something that would come easy or economical for me. I do have a Quaiffe diff installed too...

There's enough meat left on these adapters to go 110 later. I had the bolt holes put in the "wrong" place so if I needed it later I could redrill them for 110 later half a rotation off and cut a new centering ring. I kicked around the boxster flanges too, came to the same conclusion. Just wasn't worth it. If I paid retail for the steel, price would have been about $350 for the adapters. A bit less than a Kennedy kit and it's in hand in a week. Never seen Kennedy do that BTW, I need you to PM me your address. I've got something for you for sending me the dimensions.

Quaiffe comes later. The wife's given me one heck of a budget, but there's only so much time in the day.

Ok, I'm two days behind where I wanted to be. Started cutting steel for the motor mounts, pics to follow shortly. I keep forgetting how much time it takes to cut steel if you have any attention to detail...

Bump..

Are you sparking anything up yet?

It's been like three years since I've done any serious welding. It was obvious from my performance today. I managed to bang out most of the cross bar, but there's some little pieces that still need to be done. I'll push them out tomorrow.

Pics tomorrow because I'm too damned tired to remember how to upload pics.

Some pics and progress from sunday. Had to roll the engine out from under the car to get more measurements for mounting so I figured I'd take a better look into the hole of hell:



Looks like I'm gonna get off easy there. Once the motor mounts are finished, I'll start cleaning it up.

While the engine was out of the car, I pulled everything I don't need. No more power steering or AC. It might be a bit tricky to find a new rout for the serpentine. I'll probably end up running the tensioner on the wrong side of the belt. Oh, and turning the manifold backwards isn't an option. May have to call a budy of mine and work up a custom CF manifold.



And the cross bar is almost finished. It'll mount in the stock crossbar location with rubber mounts on the ears. I'm not using the stock audi mounts as it makes it real tough to get all the tubing in properly. It'll make much more sense when I get the diagonals that attach the engine to the bar finished.

Slow going... Yesterday I managed to get the cross bar finished and mounted in the chassis. It doesn't look quite like the above pic anymore. I've only rolled the engine under the car, dropped the chassis on it to do some measurements, only to lift it and roll the engine out about 10 times.

Thinking I'm gonna spend the day fighting the rusted batt tray and seeing what I can do about cancer treatment underneath.

WOOT! Front motor mountage, and I think I left enough room for that V8 I'll find years from now:



I know, about time! My welding skills aren't what they used to be.

Managed to knock out one tranny mount today. I'm determined to blast the other one out tomorrow. I think I wore out my welder's compass on the angles and dangles on the first one, but I'm determined to get rid of the tough fabrication within 24 hours.

More pics to follow.

WHOOHOO! The engine, tranny and chassis are now one. It wasn't pretty, and I had to sacrifice a couple of goats the the Porsche gods, but it's done. Now on to the brainless stuff.

A problem popped up though, my favorite auto dismantler sent me an email that they've got an Audi 3.6l v8 they're trying to unload. If I work them, I could pick up the engine, radiator, clutch master and radiator for under $1k. Miles are a bit high, but compression numbers seem good. Seems silly to go though this much trouble without going mind numbingly big.

Thoughts guys?

I've been contemplating getting rid of my mind numbingly big so I can have my trunk space back. What fun is RRC if I have to wear the same set of clothes all weekend?

This is the hard part. I'll loose virtually no rear trunk with either engine. The rear lateral line is virtually identical on both. The mounts are identical so all the fab work I've done will still work. 250hp NA vs 170hp is a bit exciting. Aluminum block as well so there's no weight penalty. Beyond that, the off the shelf turbo manifolds for the 16v will bolt right up.

ARGH! It's so damned tempting.

Jim, get a 2.0 or a 2056 and have some fun in your car instead leaving it in the garage!

Ok, I slept on it. Better judgment got the best of me. I'm reverting to my original plan, getting the v6 going and worry about a v8 later.

If I decide to go there later, it'll be a drop in as almost everything is the same. Besides, 4.2 v8s are only getting cheaper and maybe by the time I get to that point someone will have figured out low compression pistons for the beastie.

Pics today, promise.

Looks like the engine/tranny portion of this project is suspended. Got all the mounts done, bolted everything to the car, dropped it back on it's wheels and the engine and tranny just sat there, suspended

Looking great! Keep up the progress. This is the weather we want to be driving out teeners in. Your going to love your motor combo. 170hp in a teener is a blast

Thanks JRust. I'm still pushing. At this point it's starting to feel more like a job than a hobby. One project at a time...

After getting the mounts done and the car back on the ground/leveled. I double checked the engine position/level. Everything's within 2mm of perfect. In retrospect, I'm a little amazed it came in that close.

I'm thinking the clutch is the next project. Hopefully it'll be on the road by fall.

Cool build, are you keeping the 12v stock or hot-ridding it? If you want to hot it up, I know of a guy on an Audi forum that does amazing stuff with the 12v motor (more hp than my 30v).

It's gonna remain "fairly" stockish. Anything that doesn't need to be there will go away and it'll run on aftermarket FI at the start. Once it drives, I'm gonna warm it up a bit. The geometry on this engine isn't much different than the VW 8v crossflow, just a couple extra pistons and I've got WAY too many years pushing them so I'm guessing a lot of that will translate.

What's preventing the gearbox from swinging laterally, unreasonably? The pics so far don't look right.

Hard to see in the pics. They come out about 3-4" from the tranny so there's all kinds of diagonal structure there. Beyond that, you'll notice the thicker plates on the tranny end gusseting a whole lot of steel against the 1/2" plate bolted in the stock location on the tranny. It's at least 2x the strength/rigidity of the stock mounts in the Audi just a slightly different shape. I'll see if I can't get a shot from the back to help make more sense tomorrow.

As promised, but a bit late. Butt shot:



Plenty of torsional rigidity. Thankfully there won't be much for side loads and what there are will be pretty well handled by the way over sized forward mounts.

/please ignore the exhaust stub, it came with the engine and will be replaced.

Ok, got some time on my hands again. Work's been nuts and spending the weekend at the track with the folks from ChumpCar didn't help my project much. On the up side, I'm pretty well convinced this one isn't going to chump, so may as well do things as right as possible. (stay tuned on the Chump subject, another non 914 chassis showed up and so did funding). After letting it sit for a month, it's time to address the radiator. Managed to snag an s6 v8 radiator, mounting's a bit interesting but it looks as if it'll fit. Anyone have any ideas what to do with the integrated oil cooler?

Oh, and for those thinking of going the Audi tranny route, I've got a fabricator working on another half shaft solution. It's either going to be interesting and relatively inexpensive or complete junk.

The S6 radiator has an integrated oil cooler?

I say use it. Run some lines up front and do it! You could run the lines through the heater ducts.


Half shaft solution? Does it involve welding ?

This one does, and the label on the box says S6 so I'm assuming so. Could be a tranny cooler. Not real up on the more modern Audis.

Yeah, it does involve welding, but we're aware of those down sides. We've found a source for the tripod in the Audi CV. I'm gonna cut them to length, build them up in the forge, mill the buildup down to the size of the center on the tripod, weld them down on the edges as well as 3 rosette welds, then anneal/reharden the darned things. I'm still kicking around putting a teener in chump following a similar build. If they see shiny milled adapters in AIV, they're gonna start handing out penalty laps like they're going out of style.

In the end, the axle itself will have the tripod on the end. Yeah, it's some work but dirt cheep. If they don't work, I'll just throw the adapters back on.

Ok, so I managed to get the frames/mounts done today and lined them with about 1/4" of silicone to allow the body to flex a bit without wrecking the radiator. Everything's fitting together well so I'm freaked out. Pix to follow tomorrow.

I managed to get the rails and clamps for the radiator done last night. Now, on to the mounting tabs!



You think it might be big enough?

Alright, all the mounting is done for the radiator. It's been a long HOT day. 90F in the garage as I was playing with the welder. Looks like the last of the welding I'm gonna have to do is done. Timing was awesome as the bottle's empty. As always, pics in the morning, I'm too tired to deal with my camera.

Now things are moving! What are you thinking for radiator venting?

The wife FINALLY let go of all aesthetic responsibility. So I'm thinking a big assed hole. Or a big asshole, not sure which.

Seriously, I'm gonna vent the fenders in a "new and interesting" way. Labor intensive, low cost of parts. I'm searching for a second hood if that doesn't do it, have plasma cutter, will travel

alright, I promised pics this morning, I failed. Here's the finished rad mount. Doesn't look that exciting but damn, lots of work:

Fab never goes as fast as you want it to. I must have had my radiator in/out 50 times before I buttoned it up.

BTW, you need way more pictures. My ADD goes nuts when I only get to see a single picture.

I promise more pics. New camera, it's a pain in the ass but I'm getting used to it. I'm off to Seattle tomorrow and Tuesday so it's gonna get quiet on this thread. I do plan to give Campbell Nelson a parts list that'll make them think I'm drunk while I'm there though.

Well, that trip didn't go completely as planned. Didn't make it to Campbell Nelson, so I'm still gonna have to source a shifter and clutch master. Such is life. If I can't find them locally I'll just call them. Ground arrives in 1 day from there. I did manage to come up with a fully functional MS2 rev 2.2 for $150 so that'll save some time as I won't have to assemble the v3.0 board I've got in a box. Seattle craigslist > Spokane craigslist. The kid even delivered it to Factoria from Lake Stevens.

Was invited to the boss's house for BBQ with some other coworkers. After being grilled about what I do for fun by one of the guys' wives, she said she's gonna send my wife a sympathy card. I must be doing something right.

So I spent all day working with the hall sensors on the crank and cam on this beast. I'm about to give up for a while. Don't get me wrong, I have every intention of making it work evenutally, but the sun is waning and I want to drive.

New engine solution is currently in the works. I think I'm headed down a road I've already paved. Turbo 4 cyl 8v watercooled VW. About the same HP and there's enough off the shelf parts to make your head spin. I gotta get driving.

Ok, kg6dxn more picks. There's one of these on either side and I finally got time to finish them today. You guys know I'd have a hell of a lot more time to work on this car if you'd quit watching online video right!? Then again, that'd make be broke, let's not do that. ARGH! So many projects, so little time.

One whole strut:


Bottom end:

You can't see it, but under that fender washer there's a big assed rubber gromet.

Top end, hey look, the manufacturers gave me a nut welded to the chassis in the right place!:

Air goes there, and yes, it's winking at you:



Top view, just 'cause. Guess I'm no gonna be hauling groceries in the front trunk:

Ok, got a little side tracked by some shindig in the Seattle area, but I wasn't gonna go to bed tonight without making some progress.

Hot air goes out here: