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> OT: RedHat going to a subscription model? WTF???
SirAndy
post May 11 2004, 01:10 PM
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so, if i understand this right, RedHat Linux just went to a yearly subscription model, ranging from $179 (Red Hat Enterprise Linux WS) to $2499 (Red Hat Enterprise Linux AS) PER YEAR ...

WTF??? (IMG:style_emoticons/default/confused24.gif)

so, now i have to pay $179 each year to use Linux as a desktop workstation?

this is nuts ...
(IMG:style_emoticons/default/wacko.gif) Andy
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mikester
post May 11 2004, 03:01 PM
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Read my post again...

Redhat IS NOT open source. Linux is open source, the kernel that is, the tools available for use on it but Redhat is distributing a version of Linux that their programmers have customized with source code that they own.

It's that source code that they are claiming is theirs NOT LINUX in it's entirety nor are they claiming that their product does not benefit from the open source efforts. They skim off the good stuff of the open source crowd via Fedora which I don't think is right at all...
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mikester
post May 11 2004, 03:03 PM
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QUOTE(SirAndy @ May 11 2004, 12:55 PM)
QUOTE(mikester @ May 11 2004, 01:49 PM)
if you're using Redhat to save money on the cost of the OS then you're using Redhat for the wrong reasons entirely. The choice of an operating system should not be the essential cost of the software itself off the shelf but the cost of operating that operating system in a productive manner. Choose an operating system for your business based on what is going to provide the most productive work environment. The most productive work environment is what is going to make you the most money - not saving money on the purchase of an operating system.

i use it to run a BBS for a bunch of car-freaks. it's called 914world.com ...
check it out on of these days, it's pretty cool!
if you like 914s that is.

(IMG:style_emoticons/default/wink.gif) Andy

Now, bear in mind - I'm on your side but according to their new business model you should be using Fedora.

Beyond the redhat offerings you could also consider some of the more genuinely open source projects out there like FreeBSD which is near second to none in being a secuire operating system.

I wonder what the results of a security scan of the 914club web server would result?
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MattR
post May 11 2004, 03:11 PM
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As a disclaimer, I dont know crap about computers. I can use my winamp, graphics and cad programs, and make it do funny stuff sometimes when I freeze it up, but I do not claim to be a computer nerd. This is just whats been explained to me by computer nerds at a computer nerd school, and I am totally open to me screwing up the terminology.

So yeah, how 'bout them 'puters?
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mikester
post May 11 2004, 03:17 PM
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Sorry, Redhat just really pisses me off - we went through this a couple of months ago right after we purchased a ton of software from them.

I hate redhat.
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fiid
post May 11 2004, 03:27 PM
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IMHO Debian is now the free linux of choice. Fedora is pretty nice, but it's future is a little uncertain. RedHat is okay if you want to pay for it. You are paying for them investing a bunch of time in QA and making sure that the packages they are shipping have the correct dependencies encoded into them, and also that it is a supportable product. If you don't care about that, don't pay for it.

One nice thing that debian has is a better system for automated updates that doesn't rely on you having a subscription. This helps you keep on top of the constant flow of bugs that are found in various open source packages.

FreeBSD is also a good choice, but it's not Linux, which means it does not have the same product momentum that linux has. It will run linux binaries, which will work nearly all the time; most likely until you really need it to work, and then you'll find the bug. Oracle for linux was reported as running faster on FreeBSD than it does on Linux at one stage, but if you are paying for oracle, you might as well run it on a supported platform so they don't tell you to get lost when it breaks. If you are using C or C++ developed open source components, FreeBSD may well be a very good choice, but if you have Java in the mix it may be worth sticking with linux. FreeBSD shares debian's advantage in that it has a very elegant way of updating your components when you need to.

BTW, "Real men" use whatever is necessary to get the job done in the best possible way given the circumstances, and recognise that the appropriate solution may vary.

(IMG:style_emoticons/default/wink.gif)

I'll shut up now. Sponsor me :-) http://www.aidslifecycle.org/2113
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airsix
post May 11 2004, 03:59 PM
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QUOTE
IMHO Debian is now the free linux of choice.
(IMG:style_emoticons/default/smilie_pokal.gif) That is correct, Sir.

QUOTE
BTW, "Real men" use whatever is necessary to get the job done in the best possible way given the circumstances, and recognise that the appropriate solution may vary.
Well stated, and 100% correct.

-Ben M.


ps - I want an Elise. Bad. Really really bad.
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SirAndy
post May 11 2004, 04:04 PM
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QUOTE(mikester @ May 11 2004, 02:03 PM)
I wonder what the results of a security scan of the 914club web server would result?

i don't know, try it!

security in that sense was (and IS) not really an issue for us.
we don't store any valuable information on this box (besides your email addy that we're going to sell for big $$$, har har (IMG:style_emoticons/default/happy11.gif) ) ...

so, i figure, the worst we can expect would be a DOS attack from the 911 crowd ...
(IMG:style_emoticons/default/laugh.gif) Andy
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mikester
post May 11 2004, 04:10 PM
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scan in progress - expect a PM soon...
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redshift
post May 11 2004, 04:11 PM
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TIN FOIL HAT is still self-adorned, and free, but for the meager materials list...

Think about that.. when you point out that you are :

"all ab unch ofg eeks!"



Miles
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Jeff Bonanno
post May 11 2004, 04:27 PM
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MILES FOR PRES!
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SirAndy
post May 11 2004, 04:28 PM
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QUOTE(mikester @ May 11 2004, 03:10 PM)
scan in progress - expect a PM soon...

shank you sir ... (IMG:style_emoticons/default/wink.gif)
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SirAndy
post May 11 2004, 04:31 PM
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QUOTE(redshift @ May 11 2004, 03:11 PM)
"all ab unch ofg eeks!"

attention 914club members, we have a "dead man talking" ...


well helloooooo miles (IMG:style_emoticons/default/wavey.gif)
Andy
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airsix
post May 11 2004, 04:58 PM
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QUOTE(SirAndy @ May 11 2004, 02:28 PM)
QUOTE(mikester @ May 11 2004, 03:10 PM)
scan in progress - expect a PM soon...

shank you sir ... (IMG:style_emoticons/default/wink.gif)

Sheesh. I don't get no respect. I scanned and sent a report the very day the server first went live. <_<

-Ben M.
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SirAndy
post May 11 2004, 05:50 PM
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QUOTE(airsix @ May 11 2004, 03:58 PM)
Sheesh. I don't get no respect. I scanned and sent a report the very day the server first went live. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/dry.gif)

shank you sir (IMG:style_emoticons/default/wink.gif)
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airsix
post May 11 2004, 06:11 PM
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QUOTE(SirAndy @ May 11 2004, 03:50 PM)
shank you sir (IMG:style_emoticons/default/wink.gif)

There. Thank you. Now I feel validated.

...hey wait a minute... "shank" me? Scratch that. Now I feel 'violated'.

I'll keep my scans to myself and you keep your shank to yourself and we'll all be happy.

-Ben M.

ps - I really really want an Elise.
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SirAndy
post May 11 2004, 09:54 PM
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QUOTE(airsix @ May 11 2004, 05:11 PM)
I'll keep my scans to myself and you keep your shank to yourself and we'll all be happy

ok, what about

sank you sir (IMG:style_emoticons/default/pray.gif)

???
(IMG:style_emoticons/default/laugh.gif) Andy
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airsix
post May 11 2004, 10:55 PM
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QUOTE(SirAndy @ May 11 2004, 07:54 PM)
ok, what about

sank you sir (IMG:style_emoticons/default/pray.gif)

???
(IMG:style_emoticons/default/laugh.gif) Andy

It's all good. I was just kidding around (too).

-Ben M.
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Gint
post May 12 2004, 01:11 AM
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Whatabunchageeks! (IMG:style_emoticons/default/w00t.gif)

QUOTE
BTW, "Real men" use whatever is necessary to get the job done in the best possible way given the circumstances, and recognise that the appropriate solution may vary.

Generally excellent discussion here today, but that's the wisest statement I've seen in a while.

I've known this redhat thing was coming for a little while now. I don't hate redhat, nor is it my favorite. My first dabble into Linux was slackware. As much as I'd like to get back to my "roots" it probably would make more sense to chose something else. Based on what I know at this point without researching it a lot more I agree that Debian or FreeBSD might very well be good choices for this BBS. When the new drives are installed and we get some other updates running, I will be evaluating and discussing with the other admins a new OS for the club site. There is enough on the plate right now that needs to be done first. And it's that busy time of year.

QUOTE(krk)
There are those of us aiming to fix it  (keep an eye on this space)

Wanna let me in on the secret there Kim? (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)

QUOTE
I wonder what the results of a security scan of the 914club web server would result?

My first thought was who fuch'n cares? (IMG:style_emoticons/default/wink.gif) But Actually I do. Since I'm primarily responsible these days for admining the OS at the very least, I'd like to see what you come up with. But Andy is correct and he finally got that point across to me some time back. If this box crashed tomorrow I wouldn't lose too much sleep over it. My life, my job, my family doesn't really depend on it. I guess that's not entirely true, I would lose some sleep getting the thing back up and running if it crashed. But you get the general idea.

Now, having said all of that, I will not participate in, and I would encourage everyone else on the board not to discuss vulnerabilities with our favorite time killer (914world.com) directly on the board. There could very well be enough people (it really only takes one (IMG:style_emoticons/default/happy11.gif) ) that would love to "play around" after reading about said issues. Know what I mean? It's to everyone's benefit IMHO. None of this is intended to mean that we don't care or want to hear concerns in this regard. On the contrary, if you do have concerns by all means please don't hesitate to PM or email any one of the admins.


Cheers gang! (IMG:style_emoticons/default/beerchug.gif)
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sechszylinder
post May 12 2004, 01:54 AM
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hi andy,

use fedora instead of the redhat 9.0 distro . it's a spin off from the latest redhat version .

-> http://fedora.redhat.com/

many greetings from berlin

benno
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shoguneagle
post May 12 2004, 05:31 AM
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I have used RedHat as a desktop since before they went on the stock exchange. I have had very little trouble with and have enjoyed their products over the years. I am going with SuSE which IBM has assisted in major developments . I have not had any need for a server until this point but will probably build a one into a multi-machine system.

Fedora, if I remember correctly, is RedHad code but without their support. I believe they will not produce any more packages except under their service package charges. I am with Andy, why pay for something that you may not need. RedHat no longer fits my needs. Their business model appears to focus on the corporate workstations, networks, etc. with the small guy being separated from their activities.

Andy, I have a fairly current Ximian (desktop) product you can have if you need it. This item could be bundled with any Linux product you may purchase.

These are my thoughts.

Steve Hurt
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