Subaru Engine Track Days & PCA Options

[Chris Hamilton]

Dan, it is not at all clear from those rules because that could apply to any part on the car, not just the engine.

You could interpret that rule just as equally to refer to the seats as you are using it to refer to the engine.

I think this is a ridiculous distinction that we can replace the brakes with aftermarket units from brembo or wilwood that were never available on a porsche, we can replace the interior trim, seats, hoods, wheels, axles, shocks, springs, swaybars, fuel cells, and just about everything else on the car with units that were never available from the Porsche factory, but then all of a sudden there is some weighty and important distinction in the engine case.

I don't think it's obvious at all, I think it's silly.

[DanT]

If I were driving a Car that was running a type1 VW motor, I might think it was silly too!

I think most would agree that the main bits of any make car are the chassis, motor, and trans.

Ok, you can run for points but any conversion motor would get an automatic 500 modification points. Is that better?

[Chris Hamilton]

If it came down to not running for points or taking a 500 point hit, I'd take the 500 point hit.




Can you really look at this though and say "that's not a porsche"?


(IMG:http://www.914world.com/bbs2/uploads_offsite/www.912world.com-5687-1305246892.1.jpg)

[DanT]

Porsche chassis, yes.
Porsche motor, no.

Sorry we just aren't going to agree on this. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/sad.gif)

[grantsfo]

Chris, I have been part of PCA since 1969 as a family membership going to ax's with my dad in his super 90 356, then his 356 SC, then in his 914, 911 and then my 4 Porsches. Never did Porsche club consider VW type 1 , V8 or subie powered cars as car that could be classed with other Porsches for ax series points. Heck 914 owners had a tough time convincing diehard 911 guys 914 was a true Porsche back in the 70s. Its not me thats making up rules. I challenge you to show up to a PCA parade event with openly disclosed non Porsche motor powered car to see how far you get with your very weak case. Sort of scary you are in ax chairman position advocating for your personal intersts but fortunately GGR has plenty of old guard that will protect our marquee club values. You're just a bunch of empty chatter at this point. This argument isn't going anywhere. No one in PCA wants hybrid bastard cars classed with other pure Porsche cars.

You have plenty of other options where you can run your frakencrap cars for a trophy. Just go that route and stop wasting your time.

Your non Porsche powered car isn't any different than this 944. Other than fact the 944 is cool! Both are non Porsche powered cars.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TuVJc3nZqzU...be_gdata_player

If your argument were valid a non Porsche chassis with Porsche engine and transmission in a non Porsche should be given equal consideration to run for points in PCA. You know AMC hornet/gremlin used 924 engine. I'd love to show up to a PCA event in a turbo 924 powered Gremlin and run against 912s , 911s , 914s for points.

This post has been edited by grantsfo: May 13 2011, 10:57 PM

[Chris Hamilton]

I guess we'll just have to agree to disagree and see what the DEC comes up with for next year.

[BKLA]

I'm not in any position to comment... But I'm going to anyway. While i see a family resemblance to putting a type I in a 912, (Piech/Porsche - family, right?) you could also argue that a subie has porsche roots as does the Harley Vrod. Neither were ever placed in a chassis designed by Porsche. The type I does have history with Porsche, heavily modified in early chassis'.

However, since the beginning of time, rules have been created to limit or exclude others that are non comforting to the Parti (ideology) set by the rule makers.

I think you may have a goliath moment here. It is, after all, a Porsche club.

[sean_v8_914]

I am one of the cheif driving instructors here in san diego. we allow non POrsche powered cars to run in X class where we also allow BMW, corvette, Lotus...
as you can see by my screeen name, I started out with a non porsche powered car, a bastard by PCA standards. as I became competitive, I had to deside what venue I woujld compete in. I chose PCA and built a car to comply with the rules of teh club in which I wanted to race.
when I have run with GGR, I comply with their classes. when I run in SCCA, I have to comply with that.
there is allways one person who wants to change the rules to suit their fancy...like the girl who litigates to go to the all boys school, why?

[J P Stein]

there is allways one person who wants to change the rules to suit their fancy...like the girl who litigates to go to the all boys school, why?

Generally refered to as I Stock, Prepared, Mod, whatever.

[grantsfo]

PCA Mission
The Porsche has no equal, and since 1955, the Porsche Club of America has catered to the particular needs and interests of the Porsche owner. Our main mission is to heighten the Porsche owning and driving experience, which we accomplish by meeting a number of objectives:

To promote the highest standards of courtesy and safety on the roads.
To enjoy and share good will and fellowship engendered by owning a Porsche.
To maintain the highest standards of operation and performance of the marque.
To establish mutually beneficial relationships with the Porsche factory, dealers and other service sources.
To exchange ideas with other Porsche Clubs throughout the world.
To establish mutually cooperative relationships with other sports car clubs.

...no where do I read acceptting and promoting of non Porsche power plants as part of PCA mission? If fact acceptance of VW and subie power plants is in direct conflict with "To maintain the highest standards of operation and performance of the marque".

But I'm ready just in case!

(IMG:http://www.914world.com/bbs2/uploads_offsite/lh6.googleusercontent.com-433-1305399763.1.jpg)


This post has been edited by grantsfo: May 14 2011, 01:02 PM

[BKLA]

Grant, that's a purdy piece o' sculpture there!!!

[914v]

How about a 911 or a 914 with a porsche motor with many upgraded internals? Overbored cylinders, JE pistons, longer cranks, hollow titanium valves, webber carbs isntead of fuel injection, MSD ignition system instead of Bosch, etc...

Would this still qualify to run in PCA as a Porsche motor? (IMG:style_emoticons/default/driving.gif)

[grantsfo]

How about a 911 or a 914 with a porsche motor with many upgraded internals? Overbored cylinders, JE pistons, longer cranks, hollow titanium valves, webber carbs isntead of fuel injection, MSD ignition system instead of Bosch, etc...

Would this still qualify to run in PCA as a Porsche motor? (IMG:style_emoticons/default/driving.gif)

Yes this is allowed and handled through both PCA national and most local orgs. Porsche motor upgrades have always been part of PCA culture and history.

However Chevy V8s, VW type 1s, Subarus, rotory have not been part of that heritage at least in having ability to formally compete for points directly with Porsche powered cars. I think we have a misguided individual in place of "authority" that just needs to be mentored by club elders to correct path.