V8 Cooling question, Driver, not car Options

[Howard]

Moby Dick is running (a week late, of course). Water temp OK, but under front hood temp kinda warm. Nice in winter, I guess, but not so right now. Gas tank quite warm to touch.

Have lots of venting in wheel wells, but heat rises, so.. Saw a nice V8 conversion (Harry?) @ WCC that had panel cut out of front hood behind radiator. Here's my friend's 308. Looks neat, and serious amount of hot air comes out when fan is on.

Think this would work on mine? Any ideas about where to find something like this prefab? Behind headlights or one in middle, or both?

Ferrari:

[Howard]

And Moby:

[SLITS]

For you H. Pack b_l_s in ice and happy motoring (IMG:style_emoticons/default/ph34r.gif)

[andys]

The plan for my V8 conversion is to do a (hopefully) tasteful hood venting treatment. This will, as previously posted, vent hot air in a naturally upward direction, take advantage of the aerodynamic effects, and avoid making the trunk area one large hot box that heats the fuel tank (which just can't be a good thing). I'm hoping there will be just enough room left to put a space-saver spare tire upright just in front of the bulkhead. I bought a spare hood to play with.

Andy

[Howard]

Slits, nice (IMG:style_emoticons/default/icon8.gif) I'll be wrapped in ice soon enough, don't push it. Don't want those cheap eyetalian parts on my mongrel. Trivia question, Mr. know it all. Bought new Edelbrock carb for the beastie. Manufactured by......tadaaa: Weber. Could be barbecue people for all I know.

[Eddie914]

I'm planning on doing the same, to exhaust air from my front mounted oil cooler.

Like this:

(IMG:http://www.dleong.org/2003/tt/prc/images/photo18.jpg)

Eddie

'71 914 2.7 Conversion

[SLITS]

Edelbrock Preformer? Spreadbore or Squarebore? What number (stamped on base). Does it have a black cover? What's the spacing on the grill surface. You shoulda asked, I would have supplied a double dutch oven pumper. See!!!!!

Edit: You know you're going to have to shroud the radiator unless you want to vent the entire trunk and then you're gonna pull air from the wheel well vents (dirt rocks, small animals, etc).

2nd edit: I would think that if the gas tank was getting "warm", the bulkhead seal is not holding very well. How 'bout adding 'bout 1" foam rubber on the top to seal the gas tank well?

[bernbomb914]

would louvers work? simple to do, shades of the hot rod era, would look cool if designed correctly.

Bernie

[Howard]

Eddie, thanks. That's a great look.

Slits, WTF are you talking about? It's silver, shiny, has 4 holes, and this one time, at band camp....

[SLITS]

Eddie, thanks.  That's a great look.

Slits, WTF are you talking about?  It's silver, shiny, has 4 holes, and this one time, at band camp....

Spreadbore = two large secondary holes, two small primary holes

Squarebore = 4 equal holes

Carb facing you, on baseplate, left hand side will be a number 1406, 1407, 1408, etc

Oh, never mind. I would have still given you a Holley Double Pumper for the beast. On your engine, prolly a 600 CFM.

Edit: BTW - Nice Effin Car Howard!!!!

[TimT]

This is the way I did it on my 911...

[skline]

Howard, figure out another way, if you cut a hole in that hood to vent the air out, it will become very warm in the cab when you are driving. That hot air will come right over the top of the windshield. I was already advised about that from another guy. He said in the summer, the heat when you drive slow is pretty bad. Try opening the wheel wells more or consider another fan to exhaust the air.

[neo914-6]

Howard,
Yes that was Harry's "Purple Bandit". What a seat pinning ride. Paul's silver car also has a top vent. As you know many mid-engine Italian cars vent out the top. Rod Simpson vented out the top on his first 914 V8 prototype back in '70. He subsequently vented through the wheel wells and most conversions use this method. Rod didn't want the hot air to flow into the cabin through the vent. A few, like Jaide (defunct) run it out the bottom. Fiat X/1/9's, Lotus Europa, and Lancia Scorpians vent out the bottom. Of course their engines are smaller. Chris' Nissan converson vented out the bottom too. Each configuration has their +'s and -'s to packaging, appearance, moisture protection, and efficiency. Before making changes recheck the basics: min. inlet size, min. outlet size, no air traps, water flow rate, and heat exchange rate. I may have more detail pics if you need them.
Good Luck,
Felix

[dmenche914]

How are you routing the water to the front? Copper pipes under the cahsis would probably help aid cooling some. I agreee that a hood vewnt would greatly improve air flow thru the radiator, but it would blast hot air into the cab when roof is off. try a hole in the floor, like they did for the AC set ups, if thats not enough, open up the wheel well area, go slow, it is easy to take off more, hard to put back. All cutouts in body should be well radiused to prevent crack growth from corners (ask me how I know!!!).

More electric fans might help, fans with shrouds tend to work best.

make sure your intake is truely big enough also.

Also radiator size is an issue, how big is it, how thick is it. you may want to go for a larger radiator.

Check also with some of the conversion vendors, they should know what works best, and all the pros and cons.

lots of luck

dave (Buick 3.8 V6 powered 914)

[Howard]

As always, gang, thanks for the answers and pic's.

Water temp is OK, it's just that gas tank gets pretty warm. Since there is no real
'firewall' in front on the 914, that heat gets transmitted into the pass compart.

Coolant routed thru 1" green stripe in car center. More trivia. 308 shown is first year steel body. PO added center vent (came standard on 2nd and all following years). Could be cosmetic...

Rain not an issue here (we don't get no estinkin rain) but even if it was, front part of fenderwells pretty much removed, so would get lots of water in that area. Irregular, but each opening about 15" by 8". I believe there is enough exhaust area since it's about 3 times the inlet area. No HVAC stuff, so front of windshield vent just for fun. No vents in car.

Without those vents, I wonder how much hot air would enter interior from over the w/s. Might just remove the hood and drive for a bit. Hope the pic's came out well enough to see.

[Howard]

pic 2

[Howard]

pardon the flash bloom on previous. pic 3

[Howard]

push the button, stoopid

[dmenche914]

Your radiator and openings for cooling certainly look large enough. My radiator sits bit further foward in my car, and has a greater angle to it. the front top extends past the headlights.

Here are some things you might want to try.

First off my cockpit got too warm so I added foam weather strip in additin to the factory seal on the firewall (where the trunk lid seals aginst it when closed) I also sealed all little openings in the metal just in front of the dash, that can be viewed from the trunk. it is amazing how little tiny 1/2 inch dia. holes can dump so much hot air on a person.

To help cool your gas tank, because the hot radiator air is blown right on the fire wall, try adding some insulation, and a metal heat shield. I'd try either some commercial heat shield, with reflective surfaces, or make one out of shinny aluminum, with an insulation layer in between. A sandwhich lay, maybe of even two aluminum sheets, with stand-off between them, and the fire wall might be effective.

if that fails to do the trick, consider adding a duct from the front of car, that wont be picking up hot air and with hoses, route to the gas tank compartment, and have an exit duct take that air out the bottom. Might want to use aluminum flexible clothes dryer duct hoses, I believe you can commonly get them in 3, and 4 inch diameters,

Nice looking car you have.

dave

[John2kx]

Howard,

From one of your pics it looks like the hood is bowed in the middle. This might be creating a less than adequate seal when hood makes contact at bulkhead area. Maybe a test of the seal? I have visions of clay, bubble gum etc. attached to seal. Close hood and check thickness of test pieces.

You've got a great looking car and I wouldn't add a hood scoop. Don't think it will work in lowering gas tank temperature since you already have the proper size holes in fender wells. If you get the gas tank area sealed right and still have high tank temps., I'd try lining the bulkhead with insulating material as mentioned by Dave. With the clean installation you have under front trunk, I would only line the fuel tank side.

I'm working a similar issue after installing a/c to my car last month. In traffic the cabin is very cool but at highway speed hot air was entering cabin from several small holes. Never paid much attention prior to the a/c install and just chalked it up that a black on black car without a/c is just hot in the summer. Though I had all the holes sealed but they are really easy to feel with the a/c working.

This mornings sealing efforts paid off. It's 96F here today with very high humidity. Grin factor is high after cruising at 100+ mph with a/c on and small block singing through a set of Borlas.

Sent you a PM Howard,

John