 100% Gas, No more Ethanol! |
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| JawjaPorsche |
 Aug 7 2011, 09:49 AM
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#1
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Advanced Member  Group: Members Posts: 3,463 Joined: 23-July 11 From: Clayton, Georgia Member No.: 13,351 Region Association: South East States  |
A gas station in town just started carrying 100% Gas (No 10% Ethanol).
I filled up with the 100% gas and my 1.7 Teener runs much better! I know when our Teeners were made there was no such thing as 10% Ethanol. In fact, we had Leaded Gas! I am sure there are more educated people than me that can shed a light on why my Teener runs better on 100% Gas. |
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| mepstein |
Aug 7 2011, 09:53 AM
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#2
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914-6 GT in waiting Group: Members Posts: 19,279 Joined: 19-September 09 From: Landenberg, PA/Wilmington, DE Member No.: 10,825 Region Association: MidAtlantic Region 
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I doubt I'm more educated but there is more energy stored in gas than alcohol.
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| Niklas |
Aug 7 2011, 10:20 AM
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#3
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Porsche 914 Sweden Group: Members Posts: 366 Joined: 20-June 09 From: Sweden - Skivarp Member No.: 10,488 Region Association: Scandinavia |
Hello!
Check this out: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/E85 If you use etanol you will get more power but with higher mpg. Niklas |
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| underthetire |
Aug 7 2011, 10:36 AM
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#4
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914 Guru Group: Members Posts: 5,062 Joined: 7-October 08 From: Brentwood Member No.: 9,623 Region Association: Northern California |
Actually, I believe it's less power and lower mpg. We run e85 in our work cars, when we fill up with regular e10, there is a noticeable difference in power and mileage.
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| Woody |
Aug 7 2011, 10:37 AM
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#5
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Sandbox Rabblerouser and head toilet scrubber Group: Members Posts: 3,858 Joined: 28-December 10 From: San Antonio Texas Member No.: 12,530 Region Association: Southwest Region |
QUOTE(Niklas @ Aug 7 2011, 11:20 AM)  Hello! Check this out: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/E85 If you use etanol you will get more power but with higher mpg. Niklas Unfortunately ethanol has caused more problems than anything else. |
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| poorsche914 |
Aug 7 2011, 10:37 AM
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#6
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T4 Supercharged Group: Members Posts: 3,090 Joined: 28-May 09 From: Smoky Mountains Member No.: 10,419 Region Association: South East States |
QUOTE(Niklas @ Aug 7 2011, 12:20 PM) Hello! (IMG:style_emoticons/default/confused24.gif) Check this out: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/E85 If you use etanol you will get more power but with higher mpg. Niklas From wikipedia: "E85 has less energy content than conventional gasoline; 30% percent less energy for transportation by volume" (IMG:style_emoticons/default/driving.gif) |
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| BMXerror |
Aug 7 2011, 10:46 AM
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#7
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Senior Member Group: Members Posts: 1,705 Joined: 8-April 06 From: Hesperia Ca Member No.: 5,842 |
QUOTE(Niklas @ Aug 7 2011, 09:20 AM) Hello! Check this out: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/E85 If you use etanol you will get more power but with higher mpg. Not per se. Gasoline has a higher specific heat value than alcohol, I.E. more thermal energy per pound. However it is less stable than alcohol, and more likely to detonate. That's where the 'extra power' in E85 comes from; the ability to run higher head pressures and control them. Be it with more boost, or higher mechanical compression. But if your engine doesn't run those higher head pressures, and isn't tuned for the burn characteristics of alcohol, then it'll do no good whatsoever. The long and the short of it is, run whatever your engine is tuned for, and it will run at it's most efficient level. Same reason you don't run "premium" in a car that only calls for regular. As an aside, that's why this 'flex fuel' idea is complete crap. If you run E85 in an engine that's meant for gasoline, you will make less power and probably get worse mileage. If you run pure gasoline in an engine that's truly mapped for E85 (Hard to find, except at the track) you'll probably hurt it. Pick a fuel, map the car for that, and leave it alone. Mark D. |
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| Mike Bellis |
Aug 7 2011, 10:47 AM
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#8
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Resident Electrician Group: Members Posts: 8,345 Joined: 22-June 09 From: Midlothian TX Member No.: 10,496 Region Association: None 
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E85 is great for turbo applications. You will need bigger injectors but the end result is a cooler burn which allows for higher boost pressures. But you do use more fuel to reach the same HP number.
I don't think we will ever see 100% gas on the Left Coast ever again... (IMG:style_emoticons/default/sad.gif) |
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| swl |
Aug 7 2011, 10:48 AM
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#9
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Senior Member Group: Members Posts: 1,409 Joined: 7-August 05 From: Kingston,On,Canada Member No.: 4,550 Region Association: Canada |
Spent the last half hour doing some reading.
Ethanol blended fuels can run at higher compression. If the engine is set up for it you can get more power. Putting it in an normal engine though you won't be able to take advantage of the extra power potential. You lose about 3-4% mpg (E10) as a result of the lower heat density. One government paper had a small tidbit in it about the air fuel ratio being higher because of this lower density. Reading between the lines that suggests that when you put e10 in a car you are effectively leaning it out. Maybe that is the effect that JawjaPorsche is seeing? His engine is running a lttle richer. Ethanol can be nasty with older fuel systems particularly carbs. Issues with water and some rubbers. Probably best to stay away from it. In my neck of the woods most (all?) premium pumps aren't labelled with the ethanol warning so we have a ready supply of E0 gas. |
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| Niklas |
Aug 7 2011, 11:38 AM
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#10
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Porsche 914 Sweden Group: Members Posts: 366 Joined: 20-June 09 From: Sweden - Skivarp Member No.: 10,488 Region Association: Scandinavia |
Hello!
E10 is not the same as E85. We have a Volvo C30 that we run on E85. We got more power but the mpg is not so good. We have to service the car every 10000 km instead of 30000 km. The price mpg is lower with E85 than gasoline ( in sweden ) Niklas |
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| Lou W |
Aug 7 2011, 11:53 AM
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#11
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"Here Kitty Kitty" my ass...... Group: Members Posts: 4,109 Joined: 9-May 04 From: Roseburg, OR. Member No.: 2,039 Region Association: Spain |
We have "ethonal free" gas here in Oregon, costs a bit more.
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| ezbngreen914 |
Aug 7 2011, 12:33 PM
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#12
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Member Group: Members Posts: 441 Joined: 11-December 10 From: Sautee, GA Member No.: 12,472 Region Association: South East States |
I drive 45 min one way to get ethonal free gas. I seems to make a big differance. I love real gas! (IMG:style_emoticons/default/piratenanner.gif)
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| cwpeden |
Aug 7 2011, 12:33 PM
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#13
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Great White North, huh? Group: Members Posts: 916 Joined: 20-August 06 From: Victoria BC Member No.: 6,693 Region Association: Canada |
Dont forget this is wikipedia....I know a guy who knows a girl who has a website that says this......
I'd like to see one vehicle, all gases, one dyno. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/blowtorch.gif) |
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| underthetire |
Aug 7 2011, 12:35 PM
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#14
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914 Guru Group: Members Posts: 5,062 Joined: 7-October 08 From: Brentwood Member No.: 9,623 Region Association: Northern California |
QUOTE(Niklas @ Aug 7 2011, 10:38 AM) Hello! E10 is not the same as E85. We have a Volvo C30 that we run on E85. We got more power but the mpg is not so good. We have to service the car every 10000 km instead of 30000 km. The price mpg is lower with E85 than gasoline ( in sweden ) Niklas E85 at the pump here, if you can find it, is the same price as e10. I would also assume your Volvo is turbo? That would explain a performance increase. |
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| ezbngreen914 |
Aug 7 2011, 12:36 PM
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#15
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Member Group: Members Posts: 441 Joined: 11-December 10 From: Sautee, GA Member No.: 12,472 Region Association: South East States |
Good website:
pure-gas.org |
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| swl |
Aug 7 2011, 01:12 PM
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#16
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Senior Member Group: Members Posts: 1,409 Joined: 7-August 05 From: Kingston,On,Canada Member No.: 4,550 Region Association: Canada |
QUOTE(cwpeden @ Aug 7 2011, 10:33 AM) Dont forget this is wikipedia....I know a guy who knows a girl who has a website that says this...... Always a good point but lots of solid citations on this article. QUOTE I'd like to see one vehicle, all gases, one dyno. yes please! Several formal fuel economy trials but I didn't find any formal tests of performance. two tests - E0 then E10 without touching the car Then repeat the E10 with tuning to bring the AFR down to the same as the E0 run. |
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| montoya 73 2.0 |
Aug 7 2011, 01:12 PM
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#17
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Lack of consideration to others, and Selfish! Group: Members Posts: 1,791 Joined: 27-October 04 From: Paso Robles, Ca. Member No.: 3,016 Region Association: Central California |
QUOTE(kg6dxn @ Aug 7 2011, 09:47 AM) I don't think we will ever see 100% gas on the Left Coast ever again... (IMG:style_emoticons/default/sad.gif) QUOTE(Lou W @ Aug 7 2011, 10:53 AM) We have "ethonal free" gas here in Oregon, costs a bit more. We have had "Clear Gas" for several years here in Southern Oregon. It was "only" for off road use for awhile. Was used primarily by small engine owners (chain saws, boats, snow mobiles, snow throwers, Lawn mowers and ATV's) due to always having their equipment (carbs) being all gummed up after a few months of storage. About a year or two ago they allowed it to be used in cars. The station I go too, before it was legal would let me fill the Teener up as long as as I would pull the car in at an angle so no one could see due to the hood being up. I also had to fill up a gas can due to someone walking by, he would switch from the car to the can and then back to the car. The cost is about a quarter more than Premium but the Teener runs alot better! |
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| Niklas |
Aug 7 2011, 01:32 PM
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#18
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Porsche 914 Sweden Group: Members Posts: 366 Joined: 20-June 09 From: Sweden - Skivarp Member No.: 10,488 Region Association: Scandinavia |
QUOTE(underthetire @ Aug 7 2011, 08:35 PM) QUOTE(Niklas @ Aug 7 2011, 10:38 AM) Hello! E10 is not the same as E85. We have a Volvo C30 that we run on E85. We got more power but the mpg is not so good. We have to service the car every 10000 km instead of 30000 km. The price mpg is lower with E85 than gasoline ( in sweden ) Niklas E85 at the pump here, if you can find it, is the same price as e10. I would also assume your Volvo is turbo? That would explain a performance increase. No Turbo just real power. Niklas |
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| poorsche914 |
Aug 7 2011, 01:32 PM
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#19
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T4 Supercharged Group: Members Posts: 3,090 Joined: 28-May 09 From: Smoky Mountains Member No.: 10,419 Region Association: South East States |
I found a local station that advertises 100% gasoline. Will be fueling my 914 there (IMG:style_emoticons/default/piratenanner.gif)
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| SirAndy |
Aug 7 2011, 02:02 PM
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#20
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Resident German Group: Admin Posts: 41,651 Joined: 21-January 03 From: Oakland, Kalifornia Member No.: 179 Region Association: Northern California |
QUOTE(cwpeden @ Aug 7 2011, 11:33 AM) Dont forget this is wikipedia....I know a guy who knows a girl who has a website that says this...... Actually, Wikipedia has had a pretty good screening process for content for quite a while now. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/shades.gif) |
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