Clutch Question for V8 guys Options

[GRM1964]

I have a question for those of you guys running a V8. I have the Kennedy kit, and started out with the 215mm flywheel and stock 914 clutch and pressure plate. My engine has about 275-300 hp, and the clutch would start to slip at about 1/2 throttle. I upgraded to the Kennedy Stage II pressure plate, and retained a stock 914 disc. The clutch didn't slip, but it only lasted for about 3 passes at the dragstrip. I just ordered ,last week, the Kennedy 6 pad metallic clutch disc. It is suppose to be good for about 273 ft. lbs. of torque, when used with the Stage II pressure plate. I haven't installed it yet to see what it will do.My question is, in a drag racing situation, do you feel this will hold up, or do I need to upgrade to the 9" clutch disc? I hate to do that because that means new 228mm flywheel, pressure plate and disc not to mention $$$ What set ups are you guys using in your cars? Thanks for any input.

Bill

[Brad Roberts]

You have to run the 228 with a stageII if you want it to hold. I would suggest a spring centered PUC disc. Driving one with a solid center isnt much fun on the street. I used to beat the piss out of one of our V8 914's with a 901 in it. It chewed the teeth right off the R+P.

Something you havent said:

What throwout bearing are you using ??


B

[GRM1964]

Brad;

Thanks for the fast response! I am using the stock 914 throw out bearing.

Bill

[Brad Roberts]

That is your problem.

You cant run the stock throw out bearing with the KEP setup. You need their special throw out bearing.

Your clutch is not disengaging all the way.

Promise.

Call Kennedy tomorrow and tell them what you have.

Ask me how I know this ...ha ha ha (IMG:style_emoticons/default/clap56.gif)

B

[Brad Roberts]

Let me know what you think about my post above.

Keep checking back for this post... I'm watching the news so I will be up for another few hours.


B

[GRM1964]

Brad;

I will give them a call tomm. I am still going to have to upgrade to the 9" clutch though, correct? I guess I got a little confused when ordering from them. I was told that the stock disc and 215mm pressure plate would hold 180lbs. of torque, and that the Stage II 215mm pressure plate would hold 272 lbs. of torque with the stock disc, and if I used the Stage II 215mm pressure plate and 6 pad metallic disc, that would hold 337 lbs. of torque. The Stage II 9" pressure plate with stock F&S disc only holds 273 lbs. of torque, so I thought the decision was a no brainer. Did I misunderstand something?
(IMG:style_emoticons/default/huh.gif)

Bill

[Brad Roberts]

You have all the numbers correct. I think the whole problem is the throw out bearing.

I went thru 3-4 discs/pressure plates before I figured out somebody had replaced the beefy KEP throw out bearing with a stock one. The stock one doesnt reach the KEP pressure plates properly. You can adjust it to reach.. but when you let off the clutch... it doesnt disengage the pressure plate completely allowing the disc to slip. The KEP TOB (throw out bearing) is some VW bus bearing pressed into a housing that accepts our clutch fork.

Oh.. send me the pic you used for your avatar and I will resize it for you ...so it looks proper and not all stretched.

B

[GRM1964]

Brad;

Thanks I will call them. I was looking through their catalog while I was waiting for your response, and they only show a special release bearing for their 9" clutch kits not for the 215mm kits. I will call tomm. and try to confirm. I will send you that pics in a minute, I was having a heck of a time uploading the pic, took me 10 tries or so (IMG:style_emoticons/default/unsure.gif) I am not the most computer literate guy on the BBS that's for sure. Thanks for your insight on my problem. I think I will change out the relase bearing with what Kennedy suggests, and install the 6 pad metallic disc, since I doubt I can send it back (IMG:style_emoticons/default/sad.gif) And then start saving for the 228mm flywheel, pressure plate and disc. You don't happen to have anything used like that laying around by chance do you? (IMG:style_emoticons/default/tongue.gif) Talk to you later.

Bill

[Brad Roberts]

I have a setup...but one of the other V8 guys is first on my list to buy it.

Save for the 228. It was the only one I could find that would handle the 400hp we where making on pump gas. Our car had GT flares and 16x8's on it.

Tell us more about the Grassroots challenge. I know what it is..but how did you manage to stay under the amount ??


B

[GRM1964]

I have a setup...but one of the other V8 guys is first on my list to buy it.

Just my luck!

Save for the 228. It was the only one I could find that would handle the 400hp we where making on pump gas. Our car had GT flares and 16x8's on it.

I will. That sounds like the solution to my problem.

Tell us more about the Grassroots challenge. I know what it is..but how did you manage to stay under the amount ??

Well if you know what it is, I won't bore you with the background. The way I kept it under budget was that I bought a running 914 for $1025, sold the engine,heat exchangers, and the entire interior to get ithe cost of the car down to basically $0 I bought a used rebuilt 350 out of the paper for $575, and had a buddy of my fab up most of the conversion pieces. It isn't the cleanest example, but when you are trying to stay under $2003, you have to make some tough choices! I did well in the drags, I got 7th overall 13.3 @ 104.7, but I smoked the clutch after 3, well 2 1/2 passes and had to limp through the autocross the next day, wasn't pretty, but at least I didn't get a DNF! Had a good time, but I was seriously outclassed. BTW;
could you send me your e-mail, I can't figure out how to attach a pic to have you resize it for my avatar. Thanks!

Bill

billmaulding@gcctv.com

[Brad Roberts]

Use:

Brad@all914.com


HUM.. too bad you are so far away.

How where you outclassed ?? You can point me to a website if I ask too many questions. I'm impressed you where able to keep it under 2003 dollars. I have always thought a V8 914 could win the whole thing.


B

[GRM1964]

HUM.. too bad you are so far away.


Tell me! Seems like most you guys are on the left coast.


How where you outclassed ??

Fit and finsih and engineering. The guys that won had a 1995 Mazda Miata with a fuel injected 302 in it. Amazing machine, creative accounting though! Look at GrassRoots website, and you can check out the cars for yourself. One guy had a 1987 I think Buick Grand National! $2003??? LOL

You can point me to a website if I ask too many questions.

Heck no, I think I have drove my wife nuts talking about the event, she will be glad I am bothering somebody else! Webpage?!? You kidding? I can't figure out how to send you an avatar, let alone run a webpage!

I'm impressed you where able to keep it under 2003 dollars. Only way it works is you can subtract parts you sold off the car to defer your cost. Like I said made a lot of tough decisions, I wouldn't have had to make if there was no limit, not like I have deep pockets to begin with.

I have always thought a V8 914 could win the whole thing.

I am not saying it couldn't happen, just not in my hands with the car I brought. Lot of guys used pro drivers and everything. I would have finished dead last before I would have let them run my car. Defeats the purpose in my opinion. Apparetnly I didn't want to win at all costs. I had a blast though!

Bill

[GRM1964]

You have all the numbers correct. I think the whole problem is the throw out bearing.

I went thru 3-4 discs/pressure plates before I figured out somebody had replaced the beefy KEP throw out bearing with a stock one.

Brad;

I just got off the phone with Kennedy, and they told me that the 215mm flywheel and uses the stock 914 throw out bearing, it is not modified in any way. They say the one for the 228mm flywheel, however is a modified VW unit, so I guess that isn't the problem afterall. I would like to upgrade to the 228mm but I just don't have the $$$ right now. Talk with you soon. Any other ideas? With the 215mm flywheel, Stage II pressure plate, and 6 pad clutch disc holding 337lbs. of torque, shouldn't that hold up for awhile with a 275hp Chevy V8?

Bill

[Brad Roberts]

It should hold up,

Makes me wonder if something else isnt holding the clutch pedal from disengaging.

Is everything related with the clutch cable/pedal arm on assembly/clutch tube/firewall/bushing in clutch arm/pivot ball for clutch arm/ in good shape ??

It still sounds like the clutch isnt disengaging. You need to have a buddy get into the car and push the clutch in while you watch the arm as it moves in the hole. It should not touch the case at rest or in the loaded state. It rest towards the front of the car in the hole.

B

[rick 918-S]

I like everything about this thread. Great topic, I think the grass roots thing is coool. Nice effort. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/clap56.gif) I know what your saying. There seems to be allot of funny accounting in that compitition.
I wonder if a 914 done by the club with parts donated from across the country could qualify? Kind of a cross country buid.

Check this out for publicity. A shell from the coast moved across country by a reply of members. Each time the car reaches the next member parts are added. End result... Who Knows?
Is that a little over the top, I can never tell...

[GRM1964]

Is everything related with the clutch cable/pedal arm on assembly/clutch tube/firewall/bushing in clutch arm/pivot ball for clutch arm/ in good shape ??

Brad;

Thanks for the list of stuff to check. Won't have a chance to mess with the car until the new disc comes, hopefully 1st of the week. As I am installing it, I will go through the list of things you have suggested to see if everything is up to snuff. Thanks again man, you are a lifesaver.

Bill

[GRM1964]

I wonder if a 914 done by the club with parts donated from across the country could qualify? Kind of a cross country buid.

Rich;

Thanks for the words of support, it was a blast! Donated parts have to be incuded with a "fair market" price in your budget. Grassroots is in the process of making some changes to the rules for next year, so it is more of a builder's event, as opposed to a guy who sells parts just to meet a budget.

As a side note, there was a car club there, Team Mini Me, who are a bunch of rabid turbo Dodge guys that fielded an awesome little 1985 Dodge Omni Turbo. The finished in the top 5 , and ran an 11.6 in the quarter on nitrous! So a club type effort is possible, though I believe they all live close to one another.

Bill

[Gint]

Hhhheeeyyy!!!!

I wonder if a 914 done by the club with parts donated from across the country could qualify? Kind of a cross country buid.

What about it?!?! (IMG:style_emoticons/default/MDB2.gif) (IMG:style_emoticons/default/driving.gif) (IMG:style_emoticons/default/flag.gif)

[seanery]

I think the car would need to start west and then travel east.
Them CA guys cut up what most right coasters call "surface" rust!!

Then when it's all done the shakedown drive is across the country!

[rick 918-S]

Wouldn't it be grand...( Martin Short ) Didn't someone have a 150.00 shell for sale in California in the classifieds? Hummmm (IMG:style_emoticons/default/confused24.gif)