Teener handled great.........Until?, Let's hear the mistakes in the pursuit of speed. Options

[jjackson]

Had a wonderful handling car from August 2010 till July 2011.Replaced entry level weltmeister 22mm sway bar with a speedway engineering used 22mm sway bar.I liked the idea of bearings through the body and the splined ends compared to the weltmeister setup.Modified the arms so they would work like sliders for adjustment.Have now run every 1/4 inch increment of adjustment from 3" to 7".Have not found the handling yet.In our current setup, that swaybar needs less than a 3" length on the arms.Would have a very small range of usable adjustment at those lengths.
Putting the weltmeister bar back on.
It's possible that something else has changed at the same time-or during the runs since then.
Results will tell.
JJackson

[yeahmag]

Wrecked my motor due to oiling issues as I got the suspension (and tires to support the suspension) dialed in!

[ChrisFoley]

...
Replaced entry level weltmeister 22mm sway bar with a speedway engineering used 22mm sway bar.I liked the idea of bearings through the body and the splined ends compared to the weltmeister setup.Modified the arms so they would work like sliders for adjustment.Have now run every 1/4 inch increment of adjustment from 3" to 7".Have not found the handling yet.In our current setup, that swaybar needs less than a 3" length on the arms.Would have a very small range of usable adjustment at those lengths.
...

What's the wall thickness of the Speedway bar?
I may be able to get you a heavier wall bar with the same OD for not much $$ that will give you a better range of stiffness.

[jjackson]

.
...

What's the wall thickness of the Speedway bar?
I may be able to get you a heavier wall bar with the same OD for not much $$ that will give you a better range of stiffness.

Both bars were solid 22mm bars.The speedway bar has a twist length of 30" and the weltmeister twist length is 35".With our current setup, the usable range on the arms of the weltmeister was 4.5' to 5.75" (measured from the center of the bar)
Really been shocked at this one.
Right now going back to welt bar just to make sure nothing else has changed-

Really surprised that the speedway bar is that much softer sprung.

Have been late on every corner since the install-As a driver, I have done a terrible job of adjusting my driving to the slow front end.
JJackson

[ChrisFoley]

...
Really surprised that the speedway bar is that much softer sprung.
...

Me too.

How do you get a twist length of only 30"? The distance between inner fenders is greater than 30".

Speedway doesn't even list a 7/8" (22mm) bar. They jump from 3/4" to 1".
Maybe they used to offer that size. Did your source mention how old it was?

I would have recommended a larger dia bar than your Weltmeister if you were trying to increase the maximum stiffness. Even hollow will be stiffer than solid if you increase the OD.

[jjackson]

...
Really surprised that the speedway bar is that much softer sprung.
...

Me too.

How do you get a twist length of only 30"? The distance between inner fenders is greater than 30".

Speedway doesn't even list a 7/8" (22mm) bar. They jump from 3/4" to 1".
Maybe they used to offer that size. Did your source mention how old it was?

I would have recommended a larger dia bar than your Weltmeister if you were trying to increase the maximum stiffness. Even hollow will be stiffer than solid if you increase the OD.

The speedway bar gets larger at the 30" point for the bearings.I do not know how old the bar is.The bearings through the body are the reason I wanted it...plus I thought I was dealing with a higher quality -smoother- similar in rate- spring. JJackson

[patrick3000]

Removed a perfectly good 1.7 engine for a 2.4 four. The car has yet to turn a wheel with the new motor

[Borderline]

I bought a Quaife torque biasing diff. Drove it for 2.5 years and just found out that it was totally locked solid due to a machining error at the factory. I got no support from Quaife and had to fix it myself. Now I am having to fix all the crap I did to the car to make it turn. From the beginning I knew something wasn't right, but was told that quaifes were so good and it must be me. Now that it's working properly the car is a lot faster (IMG:style_emoticons/default/biggrin.gif)

[jjackson]

I bought a Quaife torque biasing diff. Drove it for 2.5 years and just found out that it was totally locked solid due to a machining error at the factory. I got no support from Quaife and had to fix it myself. Now I am having to fix all the crap I did to the car to make it turn. From the beginning I knew something wasn't right, but was told that quaifes were so good and it must be me. Now that it's working properly the car is a lot faster (IMG:style_emoticons/default/biggrin.gif)

I feel your pain on that one-We had a Guard TB diff that would lock up due to some internal wear issues.When it would lock, the car was going straight.When it happened in the middle of a fast corner-look out.Has not done it since we cleaned up some burrs and went to recommended fluids (Swepco in this case).
JJackson

[brant]

I used to love my locked... welded diff
it took some getting used to and the driving style was different

but it was as fast or faster than my quaffe TB diff.
you can outbrake anyone with a locked diff
try not braking to make up speed and then throwing it into a slide in the corner.

[Borderline]

I used to love my locked... welded diff
it took some getting used to and the driving style was different

but it was as fast or faster than my quaffe TB diff.
you can outbrake anyone with a locked diff
try not braking to make up speed and then throwing it into a slide in the corner.

My car is a dedicated AX car that is still street almost legal. It was pretty quick with the locked diff and I think it will be quicker with the TB diff working properly. I just have to get the alignment re-adjusted and get rid of all the stuff I was having to do to help it turn. I sure do like the TB diff on the street now that it is working.

[brant]

the locked diff is much more of a track item, than an autox tool.

[Randal]

.
...

What's the wall thickness of the Speedway bar?
I may be able to get you a heavier wall bar with the same OD for not much $$ that will give you a better range of stiffness.

Both bars were solid 22mm bars.The speedway bar has a twist length of 30" and the weltmeister twist length is 35".With our current setup, the usable range on the arms of the weltmeister was 4.5' to 5.75" (measured from the center of the bar)
Really been shocked at this one.
Right now going back to welt bar just to make sure nothing else has changed-

Really surprised that the speedway bar is that much softer sprung.

Have been late on every corner since the install-As a driver, I have done a terrible job of adjusting my driving to the slow front end.
JJackson

Help me with the logic here JJ.

So you changed your Welt for a Speedway bar because you like the setup and coupling, if that's the right word. Let me try again, you liked how the bar was engineered attaching to the car.

OK, so now with the new bar, regardless of the setting, the reaction is slow, meaning you're getting under steer. If this is the case shouldn't you be stiffening up the rear a bit to get more pressure on the front?

Please explain for a suspension novice. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/poke.gif) Tks.

[Borderline]

I would look elsewhere. Like have the tires gone off?

[jjackson]

.



Help me with the logic here JJ.

So you changed your Welt for a Speedway bar because you like the setup and coupling, if that's the right word. Let me try again, you liked how the bar was engineered attaching to the car.

OK, so now with the new bar, regardless of the setting, the reaction is slow, meaning you're getting under steer. If this is the case shouldn't you be stiffening up the rear a bit to get more pressure on the front?

[/quote]


Had reasoned in my head that the speedway bar HAD to be superior to the Welt.Thought that this setup (does not have the end play of the welt) with the bearings-and lack of end play-would come in smoother.
Yes with the speedway bar we have been fighting a push with harsh (hard to catch,)snap throttle oversteer.
We did play with compression settings in front and rear to compensate.
Did I mention that the car was in an incredible sweet spot before the change.Really was working good.
Talked myself into this change-had run a 22 welt for twenty years (replaced a 19)
and wanted to test.Sometimes testing is not all its cracked up to be.
It is still possible that we broke something else during the process.Been over the car thoroughly and have not found anything.
I keep the rebound settings in the rear at a point that the car is pretty loose on entry and planted nicely on exit.
JJackson

[jjackson]

I would look elsewhere. Like have the tires gone off?

Currently on a set of tires with less than 20 runs.
Putting old bar back on to see if we did have another problem.We had to increase the size of the holes through the body for the bearings.Have to do some welding to go back.
JJackson

[Randal]

I would look elsewhere. Like have the tires gone off?

Currently on a set of tires with less than 20 runs.
Putting old bar back on to see if we did have another problem.We had to increase the size of the holes through the body for the bearings.Have to do some welding to go back.
JJackson

You have an interesting problem. Glad you are going back to your origional configuration where the handling was "known."

Last week at the LPR autox I was having problems with two corners. Both were 180's and my car was pushing and costing a bunch of time.

But after talking with someone that really knows how to drive I think I know the answer. The answer is two parts: First the driver and secondly understanding what the smart guys do with a 180.

Live and learn. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/dry.gif)

[brant]

check your rear swing arm suspension console

I've ripped out 2 of then on the track and just before they let go I couldn't figure out why the car was so crappy....

active rear toe (even a little) makes things feel weird...