Ethics Question, Removing ABS from a Street Boxster Options

[MoveQik]

I dunno Joe....if it were me, I would fix it right or not at all. I don't see a good reason to be the guy she is referring to when she says, "Right before I got in the accident this guy modified my brakes. Maybe that is why I didn't stop in time."

Even if the brakes work perfectly after you bypass the ABS, the fact that you modified them leaves your chin out if she is in an accident for any reason. If you were a shade tree mechanic trying to help a friend...MAYBE. But as a mechanic building up a reputable shop, no. I know she is on a teacher's budget and $4k is certainly a big bill for anyone...but perhaps a Porsche is not the right car for her if she isn't willing or can't spend the money to fix it right.

[tomeric914]

My ex had the same issue with her non-ABS 1989 Dodge Daytona that did get her into an accident. I thought she was nuts until I drove the car and had the same thing happen to me.

In my ex's case, the car had more than 100k miles on it. I believe the master cylinder was worn just enough that it would bypass fluid if the brakes were applied in a certain manner. There was no evidence of external leakage because it would just leak into the booster and not get out AND the amount of fluid leaked was minimal.

I replaced the master cylinder and the problem never came back.

[BajaXJ92]

I dunno Joe....if it were me, I would fix it right or not at all. I don't see a good reason to be the guy she is referring to when she says, "Right before I got in the accident this guy modified my brakes. Maybe that is why I didn't stop in time."

Even if the brakes work perfectly after you bypass the ABS, the fact that you modified them leaves your chin out if she is in an accident for any reason. If you were a shade tree mechanic trying to help a friend...MAYBE. But as a mechanic building up a reputable shop, no. I know she is on a teacher's budget and $4k is certainly a big bill for anyone...but perhaps a Porsche is not the right car for her if she isn't willing or can't spend the money to fix it right.

FINALLY someone said it. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/agree.gif) (IMG:style_emoticons/default/agree.gif) (IMG:style_emoticons/default/agree.gif)

[Richard Casto]

Someone may have mentioned this, but you may bypass the ABS and there still may be some other hidden problem that could still cause brake failure and an accident.

I say either find the problem and fix it or say "I can't find the problem and think its unwise to disable the ABS in the hopes that it will fix the problem".

Richard

[SLITS]

Before you disable the ABS System, spend time on the net researching. In a few minutes, I was able to determine that this problem and others with ABS spans a lot of auto manufacturers. What reader was used to try and see if codes were present? Several posts indicate that only the manufacturers' readers pick up codes; Flaps readers won't.

While you are a raving asshole, I wouldn't want you to get pinned for an accident or death.

If you do decide to proceed, will you sleep well knowing that it could possibly lead to the above? It's all about how you feel, not her.

And in the end, would you drive the car on a daily basis, assured that it wouldn't happen again?

Oh well ... more coffee!

[carr914]

Ethically .
Legally
Rich

As a parallel BMW motorcycles came with ABS as an option since the early 90's. Most of those units don't work any more, are hugely expensive to fix, and are regularly disabled and removed by mechanics and by owners. Give your local BMW motorcycle dealer a call, see what they do. It might give you some professional guidance about handling the liability.

Good Idea !

[sean_v8_914]

I love my shop. i enjoy helping my customers to enjoy their cars as much as I enjoy mine.
ethically you are responsible of informing her options and letting her decide. if its not a race car, there is really only ONE option.
before I turn her away, I would check the sensors for cable damage probably in the wheel well area before it goes up into the car. also check the magnet pick up and the tooth wheel. if there is no smoking gun, I would decline to repair it. AND I would only release the car to a tow truck or push it on to the street if she insists on driving it. as it stands right now, the car must be condemned as undrivable. the inspection invoice should state this clearly.
sometimes doing the right thing is tough love.
if she drives that out of your shop you might as well stand in the middle of I-95, pull your pants to your ankles and bend over

[sean_v8_914]

PS. I have declined to repair several cars. I have also told 2 customers that I can only release the car to a tow truck due to safety issues.

[Spoke]

In PA, a vehicle is not required to have ABS to pass the yearly automotive inspection.

Thus it is not a required function like brakes and headlights.

A friend just bought a 2009 Chevy Impala that did not come with ABS. ABS was an extra option.

I don't see how disabling or not repairing ABS would lead to any legitimate litigation. Unless of course there was some deception on the part of the mechanic or seller.

[Dave_Darling]

I don't see how disabling or not repairing ABS would lead to any legitimate litigation.

Then you need to get your eyes checked.

If the car's braking system was designed with ABS, disabling the ABS is impairing the function of the brakes. If it turns out this did not fix the original problem, the owner plows into the back of someone. At which point he/she may say "gee, Joe said disabling the ABS would fix this" to the insurance company. And they will hear "Joe impaired the function of the braking system so we don't have to pay."

Guess how many insurance companies are "reasonable easygoing guys" when money is on the line? Go ahead, guess!

--DD

[mepstein]

All this just begs the question....Is she hot?

[carr914]

All this just begs the question....Is she hot?

(IMG:style_emoticons/default/biggrin.gif)

(IMG:style_emoticons/default/thisthreadisworthlesswithoutpics.gif)

[bigkensteele]

All this just begs the question....Is she hot?

Good call! I think that we have now found the root-cause as to why this obvious question begs an answer from the questioner that defies logic.

Dude, this is an opportunity! Tell her that you can't possibly allow her to drive this car until you find the problem. Provide her a loaner if you have one, and then fix it right, eat up as much of the cost as you can, and let her know what a favor you did her. If she really loves that Boxster, she is really gonna love you for saving her ride. From there, who knows...

[Series9]

All this just begs the question....Is she hot?

(IMG:style_emoticons/default/biggrin.gif)

That's awesome. Unfortunately, I haven't met her in person. The car was delivered via tow truck. From the seat position, she's probably not a fatty.(IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)

As for the code reader, I have a Durametric system, so I can see the factory codes in the ABS. There are none.

I don't think this issue is parallel to the Cayman track car issue because this happens with mild braking and relatively cold rotors.

986s were never delivered without ABS.

I really appreciate all the opinions here. You have all been very helpful.


Here's to you. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/beerchug.gif)

[patssle]

It's problems like this that make me appreciate my 914-6 all the more. Sometimes simple is better in my mind.

It seems that modern cars are considered disposable since they are not repairable after a few years without spending more than they are worth.

A reputable classic-Porsche shop here in Texas told me to buy a Boxster instead when I asked about 914/6 conversions. Hah...

My fuel pump broke last week when I pulled the car out of its Texas summer storage. I had a new one installed in less than an hour for $60. And I had never done that before. Good luck achieving that price and time points on a newer car!

[Series9]

While you are a raving asshole...

(IMG:style_emoticons/default/w00t.gif) Oh my God! It FINALY happened!

I've been promoted from Major to Raving!! I was really beginning to think it would never happen.


I would like to thank all those who stood by me all these years as a Major. It's only through your continued support that I have been able to achieve the elite rank of Raving.

Thank you, thank you sooooo much. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/sunglasses.gif)

[Mike Bellis]

I had an RV with a brake problem. If you turned the wheel all the way left to lock, the brake hose would get hung up and pull on the calliper. When this happened the piston would be forced to the bottom. If you tried to stop after that, pedal to the floor and no brakes until it pumped back up. Only happened a couple times but very scary.

[majkos]

I've been promoted from Major to Raving!!



That would explains all the nasty PM I get for Major (IMG:style_emoticons/default/dry.gif)

I'm Maj.KOS (Major Chaos)

OK Hijack over

[sean_v8_914]

i was told im not nice. is that like a private?

[Woody]

I have my doubts that its the abs unit. I would be hesitant to do any work without being able to duplicate the problem and complete a thorough diagnosis. I would really investigate the master cylinder. Pull it and see if there is any residual fluid where it goes into the booster. Just because it was replaced previously doesn't mean its a good part. Good luck and cover your ass.