Poll- Affordable Steel Flares Options

[bulitt]

There seems to be several lines of thought on how to market and sell goods. You can sell low quantities at a very high price, or like the Walmart model sell tremendous volume at very low price.

Observing the success of Walmart over the years some (people smarter than me)
may reason this is a good model. High volume with small margins = alot of net income.

So with this in mind I struggle to believe that four steel flares sell for so much money $$$

C'mon man- material cost can't be over 60$ for all four flares?

So I realize that there are many costs with running a business and I realize the costs are spread out over the product line. I don't pretend to know the business, maybe they really do cost so much?

The reason for this poll is- If enough 914 owners vote to buy a set at reduced prices then just possibly the seller's will see the wisdom of volume pricing.

Plus I will be looking for a cheap set...LOL

[Mike Bellis]

Didn't George from AA do a group buy last year? Don't remember the price. I would buy a set at $500 if my wallet allows. But I have bigger problems right now like a blown motor. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/biggrin.gif)

[zymurgist]

You have to amortize the cost of the tooling, too. Materials don't cost much, but setting up to produce these is nontrivial.

[carr914]

Ridiculous Poll, I'm not even going to Vote.

As much as I don't like George, the price on his Flares are not bad, especially if you got in on the Group Buy.

The much BIGGER Costs are Installation ( about $2,000) Different Suspension, Wheels, Brakes, etc

If you can't pay the Piper, don't play

[mepstein]

The group buy was almost 2 years ago. $550/set + $50 shipping. ~50 sets total sold. Group buy price was 40 sets minimum. I had fun working the group buy and even got a set for free but the time it took cost me more than the $600 I saved. My main reason for wanting to organize the buy was to make sure I would have a set for myself. I don't think $1K is a bad price for the flares but they weren't even in stock for that price when the group buy went down.

Just like painting a car, most the cost isn't in the materials. With the flares its the forms, set up, production, post production, fulfilment, ect. People, labor, machines, electric, heat, taxes, insurance, ect. These are a low production item and are pretty much hand made.

Add in the cost of welding, bodywork, paint, 5 lug, bigger wheels and tires.

[GeorgeRud]

When Porsche was selling these, they were well over $1000 for a set if you could find any.

George Hussey and AA did a great job in reproducing these, and are charging a fair price for them. It is the initial tooling costs that drive up the price. Once that is paid for, then a supplier can make some money on the product, but that original step to lay out the toolng money is a big step these days.

As was mentioned, the cost of the flares is only the start of a money drain to do it right, but it is worth it when it's all together!

[ConeDodger]

Ridiculous Poll, I'm not even going to Vote.

As much as I don't like George, the price on his Flares are not bad, especially if you got in on the Group Buy.

The much BIGGER Costs are Installation ( about $2,000) Different Suspension, Wheels, Brakes, etc

If you can't pay the Piper, don't play

(IMG:style_emoticons/default/agree.gif) Step up or step off... I bought them. They go on this winter. If you can't afford the car or hobby... (IMG:style_emoticons/default/dry.gif)

[rick 918-S]

Kudo's to George and Restoration Design. Long live the group buy.

[mepstein]

Here's a video of flare production - http://www.autoatlanta.com/g/flares.php

[zymurgist]

If you can't afford the car or hobby... (IMG:style_emoticons/default/dry.gif)

I thought that was why people drive NARPS! (IMG:style_emoticons/default/poke.gif)

[scotty b]

There seems to be several lines of thought on how to market and sell goods. You can sell low quantities at a very high price, or like the Walmart model sell tremendous volume at very low price.

Observing the success of Walmart over the years some (people smarter than me)
may reason this is a good model. High volume with small margins = alot of net income.

So with this in mind I struggle to believe that four steel flares sell for so much money $$$

C'mon man- material cost can't be over 60$ for all four flares?

So I realize that there are many costs with running a business and I realize the costs are spread out over the product line. I don't pretend to know the business, maybe they really do cost so much?

The reason for this poll is- If enough 914 owners vote to buy a set at reduced prices then just possibly the seller's will see the wisdom of volume pricing.

Plus I will be looking for a cheap set...LOL

(IMG:style_emoticons/default/agree.gif) you should go out and buy a 20,000 ton hydraulic press, have a set of male and female dies made to stamp out the flares and undercut all the other vendors. I'll be first in line to buy a set of your flares for 300.00. Oh don't forget you'll have to buy a set of flares from someone in order to have something for the machinist to make the dies from










(IMG:style_emoticons/default/screwy.gif) (IMG:style_emoticons/default/screwy.gif)

[Katmanken]

Here's a bargain for ya.

NOS fenders- sorry, only 3 out of 4 available.

The prices show right side fenders are either NLA or higher in prices than the left.

[RON S.]

So with this in mind I struggle to believe that four steel flares sell for so much money $$$

C'mon man- material cost can't be over 60$ for all four flares?


Bob,
I'm not sure what you are looking for in a straight answer. I can however give you some clarification on your perceived value of the $60.00 worth of metal in a flare set.

Having worked in manufacturing, and metal fabrication in particular, for all my adult life let me try to help you understand some basic manufacturing economics.

Lost in looking at the metal alone, you are not including the cost of all the equipment required to make that $60.00 worth of metal morph into a nice repo flare set.
Guy's like George at AA, and Pete at Restoration Design have spent the upfront money on the most modern equipment needed to produce parts that are high enough quality to merit consumer interest in buying their products at a retail level.
let's start with 40k for a Romer arm to digitize a copy of an original part. Then 7k for Solidworks to convert it to a vectored model. Then how about 2-300k for a multi axis horizontal or vertical machining center to mill out the punch and die blanks. Then another 2-300k for a 500ton press to hammer out he flare. Not to mention the labor for the skilled people qualified to operate this equipment.
Do the math, and anyone can quickly see that the asking price for the repo sheet metal parts is more than fairly priced. After all, these guys my love 914s, but at the end of the day they still have to feed their families. That means they have to turn a profit.

Some of us can remember that George at AA began teasing us about selling steel repo flares way back in the late 90's. It took him about 10 years to get it right, and when he did, around 2007, I jumped at it at $700 a set. A lot of us did, and I'll bet very few of us regretted it.

One should never put their own value on someone else's efforts unless you've been there done that themselves.

Just my 2cts. worth,
Ron

[mepstein]

So with this in mind I struggle to believe that four steel flares sell for so much money $$$

C'mon man- material cost can't be over 60$ for all four flares?


Bob,
I'm not sure what you are looking for in a straight answer. I can however give you some clarification on your perceived value of the $60.00 worth of metal in a flare set.

Having worked in manufacturing, and metal fabrication in particular, for all my adult life let me try to help you understand some basic manufacturing economics.

Lost in looking at the metal alone, you are not including the cost of all the equipment required to make that $60.00 worth of metal morph into a nice repo flare set.
Guy's like George at AA, and Pete at Restoration Design have spent the upfront money on the most modern equipment needed to produce parts that are high enough quality to merit consumer interest in buying their products at a retail level.
let's start with 40k for a Romer arm to digitize a copy of an original part. Then 7k for Solidworks to convert it to a vectored model. Then how about 2-300k for a multi axis horizontal or vertical machining center to mill out the punch and die blanks. Then another 2-300k for a 500ton press to hammer out he flare. Not to mention the labor for the skilled people qualified to operate this equipment.
Do the math, and anyone can quickly see that the asking price for the repo sheet metal parts is more than fairly priced. After all, these guys my love 914s, but at the end of the day they still have to feed their families. That means they have to turn a profit.

Some of us can remember that George at AA began teasing us about selling steel repo flares way back in the late 90's. It took him about 10 years to get it right, and when he did, around 2007, I jumped at it at $700 a set. A lot of us did, and I'll bet very few of us regretted it.

One should never put their own value on someone else's efforts unless you've been there done that themselves.

Just my 2cts. worth,
Ron

(IMG:style_emoticons/default/agree.gif) And look at the video I posted. A lot of time and manual labor goes into producing each flare. Then they have to be boxed and shipped. Like I said, my intention for the group buy was just to make sure a new run of them was made. I would of paid $1K if they had been available. I wish I had bought a 2nd set just to have tucked away for the future.

[jmill]

As much as I don't like George, the price on his Flares are not bad, especially if you got in on the Group Buy.

(IMG:style_emoticons/default/agree.gif)

I got in on an AA group buy a few years ago and paid around $800 with FG rockers. I'd do it all over again if I had another car in need of them.

[Cairo94507]

If the group buy for the AA flares came around again, and the price was the same as last time, I think I would buy a set for another 914 (down the road) just to have in my attic. Assuming I live long enough to finish my six and then find a nice candidate for a quasi-hot rod six.

I actually think the AA group buy price was very reasonable too BTW.

[John]

There seems to be several lines of thought on how to market and sell goods. You can sell low quantities at a very high price, or like the Walmart model sell tremendous volume at very low price.

Observing the success of Walmart over the years some (people smarter than me)
may reason this is a good model. High volume with small margins = alot of net income.

So with this in mind I struggle to believe that four steel flares sell for so much money $$$

C'mon man- material cost can't be over 60$ for all four flares?

So I realize that there are many costs with running a business and I realize the costs are spread out over the product line. I don't pretend to know the business, maybe they really do cost so much?

The reason for this poll is- If enough 914 owners vote to buy a set at reduced prices then just possibly the seller's will see the wisdom of volume pricing.

Plus I will be looking for a cheap set...LOL

There used to be videos showing the manufacture of the flares. There were multiple operations and multiple strikes in the dies. Each took a different setup. Then there was a bunch of trimming that went along with it. I watched the videos once upon a time.

Then there was the original cost of the dies and the upkeep of the machinery and the storage of the dies.

Sorry, but sometimes oversimplification really gets to me.

[somd914]

As someone mentioned, the cost of the flares is just the start. I'd love them, I can afford the flares, can't afford the labor-intensive installation nor the wheels/tires to fill the flares, and I'd feel ridiculous with a stock 2.0 liter powering it. One of these days maybe it will happen for me...

[mikea100]

$550 was a great deal. I'd buy a set in a heartbeat.

[IronHillRestorations]

Re-invent the wheel?