There seems to be several lines of thought on how to market and sell goods. You can sell low quantities at a very high price, or like the Walmart model sell tremendous volume at very low price.

Observing the success of Walmart over the years some (people smarter than me)
may reason this is a good model. High volume with small margins = alot of net income.

So with this in mind I struggle to believe that four steel flares sell for so much money $$$

C'mon man- material cost can't be over 60$ for all four flares?

So I realize that there are many costs with running a business and I realize the costs are spread out over the product line. I don't pretend to know the business, maybe they really do cost so much?

The reason for this poll is- If enough 914 owners vote to buy a set at reduced prices then just possibly the seller's will see the wisdom of volume pricing.

Plus I will be looking for a cheap set...LOL

Didn't George from AA do a group buy last year? Don't remember the price. I would buy a set at $500 if my wallet allows. But I have bigger problems right now like a blown motor.

You have to amortize the cost of the tooling, too. Materials don't cost much, but setting up to produce these is nontrivial.

Ridiculous Poll, I'm not even going to Vote.

As much as I don't like George, the price on his Flares are not bad, especially if you got in on the Group Buy.

The much BIGGER Costs are Installation ( about $2,000) Different Suspension, Wheels, Brakes, etc

If you can't pay the Piper, don't play

The group buy was almost 2 years ago. $550/set + $50 shipping. ~50 sets total sold. Group buy price was 40 sets minimum. I had fun working the group buy and even got a set for free but the time it took cost me more than the $600 I saved. My main reason for wanting to organize the buy was to make sure I would have a set for myself. I don't think $1K is a bad price for the flares but they weren't even in stock for that price when the group buy went down.

Just like painting a car, most the cost isn't in the materials. With the flares its the forms, set up, production, post production, fulfilment, ect. People, labor, machines, electric, heat, taxes, insurance, ect. These are a low production item and are pretty much hand made.

Add in the cost of welding, bodywork, paint, 5 lug, bigger wheels and tires.

When Porsche was selling these, they were well over $1000 for a set if you could find any.

George Hussey and AA did a great job in reproducing these, and are charging a fair price for them. It is the initial tooling costs that drive up the price. Once that is paid for, then a supplier can make some money on the product, but that original step to lay out the toolng money is a big step these days.

As was mentioned, the cost of the flares is only the start of a money drain to do it right, but it is worth it when it's all together!

Step up or step off... I bought them. They go on this winter. If you can't afford the car or hobby...

Kudo's to George and Restoration Design. Long live the group buy.

Here's a video of flare production - http://www.autoatlanta.com/g/flares.php

I thought that was why people drive NARPS!

you should go out and buy a 20,000 ton hydraulic press, have a set of male and female dies made to stamp out the flares and undercut all the other vendors. I'll be first in line to buy a set of your flares for 300.00. Oh don't forget you'll have to buy a set of flares from someone in order to have something for the machinist to make the dies from

Here's a bargain for ya.

NOS fenders- sorry, only 3 out of 4 available.

The prices show right side fenders are either NLA or higher in prices than the left.

So with this in mind I struggle to believe that four steel flares sell for so much money $$$

C'mon man- material cost can't be over 60$ for all four flares?


Bob,
I'm not sure what you are looking for in a straight answer. I can however give you some clarification on your perceived value of the $60.00 worth of metal in a flare set.

Having worked in manufacturing, and metal fabrication in particular, for all my adult life let me try to help you understand some basic manufacturing economics.

Lost in looking at the metal alone, you are not including the cost of all the equipment required to make that $60.00 worth of metal morph into a nice repo flare set.
Guy's like George at AA, and Pete at Restoration Design have spent the upfront money on the most modern equipment needed to produce parts that are high enough quality to merit consumer interest in buying their products at a retail level.
let's start with 40k for a Romer arm to digitize a copy of an original part. Then 7k for Solidworks to convert it to a vectored model. Then how about 2-300k for a multi axis horizontal or vertical machining center to mill out the punch and die blanks. Then another 2-300k for a 500ton press to hammer out he flare. Not to mention the labor for the skilled people qualified to operate this equipment.
Do the math, and anyone can quickly see that the asking price for the repo sheet metal parts is more than fairly priced. After all, these guys my love 914s, but at the end of the day they still have to feed their families. That means they have to turn a profit.

Some of us can remember that George at AA began teasing us about selling steel repo flares way back in the late 90's. It took him about 10 years to get it right, and when he did, around 2007, I jumped at it at $700 a set. A lot of us did, and I'll bet very few of us regretted it.

One should never put their own value on someone else's efforts unless you've been there done that themselves.

Just my 2cts. worth,
Ron

And look at the video I posted. A lot of time and manual labor goes into producing each flare. Then they have to be boxed and shipped. Like I said, my intention for the group buy was just to make sure a new run of them was made. I would of paid $1K if they had been available. I wish I had bought a 2nd set just to have tucked away for the future.

I got in on an AA group buy a few years ago and paid around $800 with FG rockers. I'd do it all over again if I had another car in need of them.

If the group buy for the AA flares came around again, and the price was the same as last time, I think I would buy a set for another 914 (down the road) just to have in my attic. Assuming I live long enough to finish my six and then find a nice candidate for a quasi-hot rod six.

I actually think the AA group buy price was very reasonable too BTW.

There used to be videos showing the manufacture of the flares. There were multiple operations and multiple strikes in the dies. Each took a different setup. Then there was a bunch of trimming that went along with it. I watched the videos once upon a time.

Then there was the original cost of the dies and the upkeep of the machinery and the storage of the dies.

Sorry, but sometimes oversimplification really gets to me.

As someone mentioned, the cost of the flares is just the start. I'd love them, I can afford the flares, can't afford the labor-intensive installation nor the wheels/tires to fill the flares, and I'd feel ridiculous with a stock 2.0 liter powering it. One of these days maybe it will happen for me...

$550 was a great deal. I'd buy a set in a heartbeat.

Re-invent the wheel?

Like John said. I saw the videos and was very impressed. George's price isn't bad, if there is ever another group buy get in on it, or organize one.

The flares on my car were like $1850 from Stoddard about 20 years ago. (Plus tax. LOL)

I don't think you'd have to buy the press, or any of the other machinery or equipment. And somebody already has the dies...I can't believe they're worn out after 50 pcs! I'll agree that there's a limited market, but I'll also bet that money was made on the last run.
How about another run, and warehouse some? I've got some space available!

cm

Why not ask George? I would be very surprised if he only made enough of them to cover the group buy. Probably made extras and put the rest in stock.

I'm pretty sure he will do a group buy price of ~$800 with four sets purchased. He did the previous group buy to be able to order enough quantity to start production. Now that he has them made, I don't think he needs to move big quantities.

George does not post here much anymore because he is tired of getting beat up. I think George has great intentions but has problems with customer service. I received a 928 wheel when I bought into the euro lens group buy. He did fix it; Thanks George. But I would rather support active members with small businesses offering great deals. BTW, the quallity of the euro lenses are a far cry from the old Hella's on my car now. I will buy from him when "no one else has it". I will not buy from HPH anymore. Rich is WAAAAYYYY too expensive.

I voted yes for the $500 set and I don't have another 914 to put them on, that price is unrealistically low. The set that I actually purchased are being put on my car in the next month or so (after rust repair and chassis stiffening). Installing the flares will cost much more than buying the loose parts.

George's everyday price of $1095 is pretty reasonable, it's about half of what the factory flares cost, back when they were still available.

For those who think that the current parts are too expensive, you don't actually need them. You can fabricate your own from sheetmetal. It might take a bit of welding expertise and hammer work, but I'm sure that a talented body man could do it. And they might not end up looking as good as the repros, but think of the money you'll save... Of course if you were paying someone to do it, it would cost way more than the $1095 it costs to buy the finished product.

Eric

Of course there was money made on creating the reproduction steel flares. I don't think that anyone would perform this kind of capital investment as charity.

You should contact George at AA and see if he want's to sell you the tooling at pennies on the dollar. Considering that he's made it to the profit end of the product lifecycle, I doubt that he'll consider it.

I agree, been on the manufacturing side since I was 15. Ill go one step further. Foundation to put said 500 ton press on 300K, Tooling for the mill, 10K minimum. Electrical drops to the machines ~10K, tool steel blanks to make the dies with ~5K, Large shop compressor 10K, coolants/oils/haz mat 3k, power bill to run 500ton press, ~50 per strike, machine shop time to make the dies, 200 hours. On and on. I thought it was a good cheap deal at the time, just couldn't swing all the other crap to go with them.

I got a set of fiberglass ones that were take-offs and a roll or two of duct tape. I think I'm set. and I kept it under $300! I'm saving up for some paint now.

Pay the money for the proper parts and do the install your self you can easily save thousands with my helpful how to article. I laid everything out for you, and even showed you some of my closely guarded secrets. SOME not all

http://www.914world.com/bbs2/index.php?sho...44&hl=flare install&st=0

I was wondering how I was going to do these.a short bus kinda special thanks for the tech tips to Eric and Scottyb. tape is cheaper than welding gas

Just as a benchmark- I got mine in 2002 from Stoddards. They found them in stock in the Atlanta warehouse. I paid $1600 for the set. I called AA and let them know and they were shocked that there was a set there, as AA was out of stock.

Mine had the Porsche bar code stickers on them, and a mfg date of 1998. My body guy showed me the hand hammer marks from when they were formed.

Stoddards still lists three of the four, as "Genuine Porsche Parts Classic Original Teile" at $728, $784, $850 for LF, LR, RR, but you already saw that in the earlier post.

Take the time to watch this video, and you will hopefully understand that they are not over-priced, even at $1000.

As for volume, we are not driving Beetles. There were about 120,000 of these cars produced. I would guess that maybe 20,000 are still out there in restorable or better condition, and that is being generous. Of those, the number of owners who would want to, but haven't already bought flares on their car is maybe 5%. This could go up as these cars are gaining in popularity, but the point is that the world-wide demand for flares at any price is probably about another 1000 - 2000 sets for the rest of time. That is not a lot of volume.

&showtopic=130882&pid=1553851&st=0&#entry1553851

I was told NO GROUP BUY!
The deal I was given: One man had to buy 6 sets at $800 each, provide shipping addresses to AA and they would drop ship each set to the addresses.

I was going to take that on, because I missed a fantastic deal at $550 + shipping. I dropped out of that $800 deal because I found a set for $850. It was a "last set".
Last I heard there were more than 6 willing buyers but it looks like no $$$ man.
http://www.914world.com/bbs2/index.php

I did have to wonder, what is a "group buy"?
Did hear 40 sets were stamped at one time. All boxed up, that takes up a lot of space.
A Group buy must be when every one is sold out. At that time it would be worth setting up the production line for 40 more to just take up space.
They are still out there but as they start to sell out you see the price go up.
I learned that George as control of supply. That was his investment. Good for him.

So, if some one wants to buy 6 sets at $800 each, the price may go up after that. Could be years before he stamps again.
Or, that 6 sets could be what it takes to clear the existing stock, prompting George to offer another killer deal "GROUP BUY".

If I bought 6 sets of flares for $800 a set, I wouldn't sell them for less than $900 a set. It would be my money tied up in the product and who knows who would flake on this kind of purchase. At $900 a set, there would be fewer people excited about the purchase. If I were looking for just one set, I would probably wait until I needed them and buy them for $1095 directly from AA. That every day price seems fairly stable, though it will probably go up with time, just like everything else.

You would be surprised at the size of the boxed set, I'm pretty sure that I could fit at leaast 10 boxed sets in the back seat of my Honda Fit.

You can wait for a group buy that may or may not happen, or you can buy a set and get driving. Keep in mind that I got quotes of more than $4000 for the labor to install steel GT flares. You can do better than that if you shop around (I did) but buying the flares in a box, even at list price, is the inexpensive part of getting them on your car.