 Ignition Starter wire to solenoid kills engine, Newby needs help w/ 1973 1.7L 914 Denver, CO |
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| Broz97 |
 Nov 29 2011, 06:53 PM
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#1
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Newbie  Group: Members Posts: 13 Joined: 6-August 11 From: Mile High Denver Member No.: 13,407 Region Association: Southwest Region  |
Hello 914 World... What a terrific site and help to anything 914. Now here is my dilemma... Need help in Denver, CO
I have been sorting my friends 1973 1.7L FI D-Jet 914 for a couple months now including all fuel and vacuum hoses, hell hole, clean and lube distributor, new points and condenser, fuel injector seals, intake rubbers, all Rennlist checks... et al. Good news.... She runs great when I start her with a remote starter... Bad news is the motor starts really hard and won.t stay running if I use the ignition switch or even attempt to push the yellow wire onto the solenoid when it is idling after a remote switch start. Of course it makes sense that maybe the ignition switch is crap and bleeding off current or...? I have ordered a new switch but... Maybe I missing something here.... Like I said it runs and is so tuneable if I remote start and dead to me if I use the ignition switch as designed. Anyone got any ideas on how to check this out... BTW, I have wrenching on bikes Triumph, BSA and most of the Japanese stuff nad a few VW bugs since the 60's and find the 914 pretty wrench friendly... |
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| brant |
Nov 29 2011, 07:02 PM
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#2
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914 Wizard Group: Members Posts: 11,942 Joined: 30-December 02 From: Colorado Member No.: 47 Region Association: Rocky Mountains 
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I don't know the answer
doesn't sound like one of the common problems but the switches failing is a common problem, so thats a good guess. I'll let one of the true wrenches like John or Mark chime in with the better answer very cool that your in denver and also that your helping your buddy those bike sound great also! brant longmont |
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| Broz97 |
Nov 30 2011, 10:00 AM
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#3
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Newbie Group: Members Posts: 13 Joined: 6-August 11 From: Mile High Denver Member No.: 13,407 Region Association: Southwest Region |
QUOTE(brant @ Nov 29 2011, 06:02 PM)  I don't know the answer doesn't sound like one of the common problems but the switches failing is a common problem, so thats a good guess. I'll let one of the true wrenches like John or Mark chime in with the better answer very cool that your in denver and also that your helping your buddy those bike sound great also! brant longmont Hey Brant, Thanks for chiming in... A little more info on this problem would be... when the yellow wire from the ignition switch is plugged onto the solenoid I hear a light growling sound coming from the injector / fuel system... I believe the fuel pump keeps running instead of running a few seconds to pressure and shutting off. Is there a pressure driven relay or..... . BTW... I have 29 pounds of pressure on a gauge I have installed on the driver side fuel rail (29 ponds w/ either remote or ignition key start). Please jump in gentlemen... I will be sorting this today ahead of a deep freeze storm expected here tonight. BTW I am in the Littleton area of Denver if anyone is in that hood. Thanks again, Broz97 |
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| r_towle |
Nov 30 2011, 10:29 AM
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#4
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Custom Member Group: Members Posts: 24,705 Joined: 9-January 03 From: Taxachusetts Member No.: 124 Region Association: North East States
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look under the passenger seat.
If you see what looks like two relays...or a large relay...that is a seat belt logic circuit...its a one year only mistake. Remove the yellow wires and jumper them together. Fixed. Rich |
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| majkos |
Nov 30 2011, 11:17 AM
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#5
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Senior Member Group: Members Posts: 1,370 Joined: 29-February 04 From: Mile High 914 Member No.: 1,729 Region Association: Rocky Mountains |
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| Broz97 |
Nov 30 2011, 12:34 PM
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#6
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Newbie Group: Members Posts: 13 Joined: 6-August 11 From: Mile High Denver Member No.: 13,407 Region Association: Southwest Region |
QUOTE(majkos @ Nov 30 2011, 10:17 AM) Thank you R_towle for your input... What I see under the passenger seat is a spiraled cord running up into the seat. The cord is cracking-up dry rotted and has some exposed blue wire.... no relays as I had hoped and I don't see any yellow... Dang hard to see under there and my iPhone couldn't snap a pic for you.... Is this what we are talking about with the seat belt deal or something else. I would think this wire would go to a switch in the cushion alerting the passenger to buckle up like the old GM cars used to do.... dunno, any additional thoughts? Also Hello Majkos in Lakewood, you are not far away.... Broz97 |
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| r_towle |
Nov 30 2011, 12:45 PM
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#7
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Custom Member Group: Members Posts: 24,705 Joined: 9-January 03 From: Taxachusetts Member No.: 124 Region Association: North East States
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not sure if you have it...its a 73/74 thing...one year only and it affects both years..depending on your serial number.
Remove the seat...that takes about 2 minutes. Pull it all the way forward. Take a flat screw driver and insert it in the seat rail that does not have the handle...you are flipping up a spring and you will feel it. Pull the seat out forward after, and while you flip up that spring steel tab...then pull it out. Rich |
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| Broz97 |
Nov 30 2011, 01:36 PM
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#8
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Newbie Group: Members Posts: 13 Joined: 6-August 11 From: Mile High Denver Member No.: 13,407 Region Association: Southwest Region |
QUOTE(r_towle @ Nov 30 2011, 11:45 AM) not sure if you have it...its a 73/74 thing...one year only and it affects both years..depending on your serial number. Remove the seat...that takes about 2 minutes. Pull it all the way forward. Take a flat screw driver and insert it in the seat rail that does not have the handle...you are flipping up a spring and you will feel it. Pull the seat out forward after, and while you flip up that spring steel tab...then pull it out. Rich Thanks Rich all this patient help... Here are some photos of the wires cord et al going up to the seat... YES !!!!! There is a yellow wire and a white one involved here as a power source to the seat switch... The wires are cracked to the actual bare wire on the spiral cord going into the seat bottom.... Now, is this the scenario we are looking for? Please advise... Thanks, Broz97     [attachmentid=284983] Attached image(s) 
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| Broz97 |
Nov 30 2011, 02:19 PM
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#9
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Newbie Group: Members Posts: 13 Joined: 6-August 11 From: Mile High Denver Member No.: 13,407 Region Association: Southwest Region |
QUOTE(Broz97 @ Nov 30 2011, 12:36 PM) QUOTE(r_towle @ Nov 30 2011, 11:45 AM) not sure if you have it...its a 73/74 thing...one year only and it affects both years..depending on your serial number. Remove the seat...that takes about 2 minutes. Pull it all the way forward. Take a flat screw driver and insert it in the seat rail that does not have the handle...you are flipping up a spring and you will feel it. Pull the seat out forward after, and while you flip up that spring steel tab...then pull it out. Rich Thanks Rich all this patient help... Here are some photos of the wires cord et al going up to the seat... YES !!!!! There is a yellow wire and a white one involved here as a power source to the seat switch... The wires are cracked to the actual bare wire on the spiral cord going into the seat bottom.... Now, is this the scenario we are looking for? Please advise... Thanks, Broz97 [attachmentid=284983] r_towle Here is a photo of the spiraled coil going into the seat... sure looks like a shorting situation... however this doesn.t look like a safety switch situation for starting the car.. I am going to the wire diagrams to look for more clues. hope this helps, if not please advise Attached image(s) 
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| TheCabinetmaker |
Nov 30 2011, 02:58 PM
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#10
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I drive my car everyday Group: Members Posts: 8,335 Joined: 8-May 03 From: Tulsa, Ok. Member No.: 666 |
Thats just the connection to make the fasten seat belt light on the dash go off. Rich is speaking of a large relay bolted to the floor with several wires two of which are large yellow ones. It doesn't look like you have one from your pics. If you don't have that relay, your problem is elsewhere. Where are you hooking the yellow wire too on the starter?
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| Broz97 |
Nov 30 2011, 03:16 PM
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#11
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Newbie Group: Members Posts: 13 Joined: 6-August 11 From: Mile High Denver Member No.: 13,407 Region Association: Southwest Region |
QUOTE(vsg914 @ Nov 30 2011, 01:58 PM) Thats just the connection to make the fasten seat belt light on the dash go off. Rich is speaking of a large relay bolted to the floor with several wires two of which are large yellow ones. It doesn't look like you have one from your pics. If you don't have that relay, your problem is elsewhere. Where are you hooking the yellow wire too on the starter? Hello Curt, Thanks for jumping in here.... I just tested that circuit for the seat and as you said it is just for the F'n seatbelt light... As to your question I am pushing the yellow wires blade connector onto the blade atop the solenoid... more information... When the yellow wire is connected to the solenoid at the uppermost connector the car will crank and start but I lose Fuel Injection to the #2 cylinder (could not check the other cyl on those distrib FI breaker points without a helper as the car will not idle long enough)... If I remote start the car I have FI to all four cyls and it runs beautifully, idles etc... (Additional background info: When I took over fixing the car I found a white FI wire on the plus side of the coil.. The car ran super rich and the FI was growling all the time.. As per many have said on this forum I moved that white wire to the neg side of the coil which is where it is now.. don't know if there is any relationship to my current dillemma or not...). All help appreciated.. thanks, Broz97 |
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| Broz97 |
Nov 30 2011, 03:20 PM
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#12
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Newbie Group: Members Posts: 13 Joined: 6-August 11 From: Mile High Denver Member No.: 13,407 Region Association: Southwest Region |
QUOTE(Broz97 @ Nov 30 2011, 02:16 PM) QUOTE(vsg914 @ Nov 30 2011, 01:58 PM) Thats just the connection to make the fasten seat belt light on the dash go off. Rich is speaking of a large relay bolted to the floor with several wires two of which are large yellow ones. It doesn't look like you have one from your pics. If you don't have that relay, your problem is elsewhere. Where are you hooking the yellow wire too on the starter? Hello Curt, Thanks for jumping in here.... I just tested that circuit for the seat and as you said it is just for the F'n seatbelt light... As to your question I am pushing the yellow wires blade connector onto the blade atop the solenoid... more information... When the yellow wire is connected to the solenoid at the uppermost connector the car will crank and start but I lose Fuel Injection to the #2 cylinder (could not check the other cyl on those distrib FI breaker points without a helper as the car will not idle long enough)... If I remote start the car I have FI to all four cyls and it runs beautifully, idles etc... (Additional background info: When I took over fixing the car I found a white FI wire on the plus side of the coil.. The car ran super rich and the FI was growling all the time.. As per many have said on this forum I moved that white wire to the neg side of the coil which is where it is now.. don't know if there is any relationship to my current dillemma or not...). All help appreciated.. thanks, Broz97 BTW, a couple other points... with the yellow wire off the solenoid the fuel pump runs constantly.... without the yellow wire it does no (this is all pre-cranking, engine static) |
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| TheCabinetmaker |
Nov 30 2011, 04:33 PM
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#13
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I drive my car everyday Group: Members Posts: 8,335 Joined: 8-May 03 From: Tulsa, Ok. Member No.: 666 |
White wire on the coil? Where does it go? What other color wires are on the coil? Can you shoot a pic of the coil?
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| rnellums |
Nov 30 2011, 07:06 PM
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#14
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Professional Enthusiast Group: Members Posts: 1,670 Joined: 26-November 09 From: Littleton, CO Member No.: 11,072 Region Association: Rocky Mountains |
QUOTE(r_towle @ Nov 30 2011, 01:45 PM) not sure if you have it...its a 73/74 thing...one year only and it affects both years..depending on your serial number. Remove the seat...that takes about 2 minutes. Pull it all the way forward. Take a flat screw driver and insert it in the seat rail that does not have the handle...you are flipping up a spring and you will feel it. Pull the seat out forward after, and while you flip up that spring steel tab...then pull it out. Rich That relay is a 74 only deal. And quite a pain for no gain. |
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| Broz97 |
Nov 30 2011, 07:22 PM
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#15
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Newbie Group: Members Posts: 13 Joined: 6-August 11 From: Mile High Denver Member No.: 13,407 Region Association: Southwest Region |
QUOTE(rnellums @ Nov 30 2011, 06:06 PM) QUOTE(r_towle @ Nov 30 2011, 01:45 PM) not sure if you have it...its a 73/74 thing...one year only and it affects both years..depending on your serial number. Remove the seat...that takes about 2 minutes. Pull it all the way forward. Take a flat screw driver and insert it in the seat rail that does not have the handle...you are flipping up a spring and you will feel it. Pull the seat out forward after, and while you flip up that spring steel tab...then pull it out. Rich That relay is a 74 only deal. And quite a pain for no gain. I was out riding my Triumph sorry for the delay... Here is a picture of the coil wiring as it sits..... Black to positive, Green to positive / Red/Black tach to negative, white to negative from FI harness. All sensors, injectors, distributor, coil et al work fine with yellow wire from solenoid disconnected... lets concentrate on the yellow wires circuit and see what this could be about.... yes , points condenser on the dizzy... 009 Dizzy More yellow starter wire circuit thoughts please... Ignition switch et al Thanks Broz97 Attached image(s) 
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| underthetire |
Nov 30 2011, 07:51 PM
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#16
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914 Guru Group: Members Posts: 5,062 Joined: 7-October 08 From: Brentwood Member No.: 9,623 Region Association: Northern California |
Er, green should be on the -. That should be from the points/condenser. Idk about any white wire.
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| Broz97 |
Nov 30 2011, 08:07 PM
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#17
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Newbie Group: Members Posts: 13 Joined: 6-August 11 From: Mile High Denver Member No.: 13,407 Region Association: Southwest Region |
QUOTE(underthetire @ Nov 30 2011, 06:51 PM) Er, green should be on the -. That should be from the points/condenser. Idk about any white wire. "Underthetire", Thanks for jumping in... Here is a coil pic with the polarity marked... Now anybody got a clue where the circuit for the yellow solenoid to ignition wire is... I don't see it in the wiring diagrams for the 1973 1.7L D-Jet, nor did I see any white wire going to the neg side of the coil... what's up with that fellow 914' ers. Is our car an annomily? thanks, Broz97 in Mile High Denver, CO Attached image(s) 
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| majkos |
Nov 30 2011, 08:20 PM
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#18
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Senior Member Group: Members Posts: 1,370 Joined: 29-February 04 From: Mile High 914 Member No.: 1,729 Region Association: Rocky Mountains |
No, the problem is car is running but the wires isn't correct.
can you show where the white wire come from?(to coil) something way weird is happening. You have a Hayne book? any chance you can send a pic of your remote setup? so I can see what its touching. I'm asking because you take great pictures! |
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| 76-914 |
Nov 30 2011, 08:38 PM
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#19
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Repeat Offender & Resident Subaru Antagonist Group: Members Posts: 13,698 Joined: 23-January 09 From: Temecula, CA Member No.: 9,964 Region Association: Southern California
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Now I'm confused about the logic board. I have one, albeit disconnected, on my 75MY but NOT on my 73MY.
Did you say that 1- an injector was wired directly to the coil and 2- that you have a 009 dizzy???? (IMG:style_emoticons/default/popcorn[1].gif) |
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| majkos |
Nov 30 2011, 08:41 PM
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#20
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Senior Member Group: Members Posts: 1,370 Joined: 29-February 04 From: Mile High 914 Member No.: 1,729 Region Association: Rocky Mountains |
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