Hello 914 World... What a terrific site and help to anything 914. Now here is my dilemma... Need help in Denver, CO
I have been sorting my friends 1973 1.7L FI D-Jet 914 for a couple months now including all fuel and vacuum hoses, hell hole, clean and lube distributor, new points and condenser, fuel injector seals, intake rubbers, all Rennlist checks... et al.
Good news.... She runs great when I start her with a remote starter...
Bad news is the motor starts really hard and won.t stay running if I use the ignition switch or even attempt to push the yellow wire onto the solenoid when it is idling after a remote switch start. Of course it makes sense that maybe the ignition switch is crap and bleeding off current or...? I have ordered a new switch but... Maybe I missing something here....
Like I said it runs and is so tuneable if I remote start and dead to me if I use the ignition switch as designed.

Anyone got any ideas on how to check this out...

BTW, I have wrenching on bikes Triumph, BSA and most of the Japanese stuff nad a few VW bugs since the 60's and find the 914 pretty wrench friendly...

I don't know the answer
doesn't sound like one of the common problems
but the switches failing is a common problem, so thats a good guess.

I'll let one of the true wrenches like John or Mark chime in with the better answer

very cool that your in denver
and also that your helping your buddy
those bike sound great also!

brant
longmont

Hey Brant, Thanks for chiming in...

A little more info on this problem would be... when the yellow wire from the ignition switch is plugged onto the solenoid I hear a light growling sound coming from the injector / fuel system... I believe the fuel pump keeps running instead of running a few seconds to pressure and shutting off. Is there a pressure driven relay or.....
.
BTW... I have 29 pounds of pressure on a gauge I have installed on the driver side fuel rail (29 ponds w/ either remote or ignition key start).

Please jump in gentlemen... I will be sorting this today ahead of a deep freeze storm expected here tonight. BTW I am in the Littleton area of Denver if anyone is in that hood.
Thanks again, Broz97

look under the passenger seat.
If you see what looks like two relays...or a large relay...that is a seat belt logic circuit...its a one year only mistake.

Remove the yellow wires and jumper them together.
Fixed.

Rich

Progress ?

I'm in Lakewood, so sorta close by.

Thank you R_towle for your input...

What I see under the passenger seat is a spiraled cord running up into the seat. The cord is cracking-up dry rotted and has some exposed blue wire.... no relays as I had hoped and I don't see any yellow... Dang hard to see under there and my iPhone couldn't snap a pic for you....
Is this what we are talking about with the seat belt deal or something else. I would think this wire would go to a switch in the cushion alerting the passenger to buckle up like the old GM cars used to do.... dunno, any additional thoughts?

Also Hello Majkos in Lakewood, you are not far away....

Broz97

not sure if you have it...its a 73/74 thing...one year only and it affects both years..depending on your serial number.

Remove the seat...that takes about 2 minutes.
Pull it all the way forward.
Take a flat screw driver and insert it in the seat rail that does not have the handle...you are flipping up a spring and you will feel it.

Pull the seat out forward after, and while you flip up that spring steel tab...then pull it out.

Rich

Thanks Rich all this patient help...
Here are some photos of the wires cord et al going up to the seat... YES !!!!! There is a yellow wire and a white one involved here as a power source to the seat switch... The wires are cracked to the actual bare wire on the spiral cord going into the seat bottom....

Now, is this the scenario we are looking for? Please advise...
Thanks, Broz97

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r_towle
Here is a photo of the spiraled coil going into the seat... sure looks like a shorting situation... however this doesn.t look like a safety switch situation for starting the car.. I am going to the wire diagrams to look for more clues.
hope this helps, if not please advise

Thats just the connection to make the fasten seat belt light on the dash go off. Rich is speaking of a large relay bolted to the floor with several wires two of which are large yellow ones. It doesn't look like you have one from your pics. If you don't have that relay, your problem is elsewhere. Where are you hooking the yellow wire too on the starter?

Hello Curt, Thanks for jumping in here.... I just tested that circuit for the seat and as you said it is just for the F'n seatbelt light...

As to your question I am pushing the yellow wires blade connector onto the blade atop the solenoid... more information...

When the yellow wire is connected to the solenoid at the uppermost connector the car will crank and start but I lose Fuel Injection to the #2 cylinder (could not check the other cyl on those distrib FI breaker points without a helper as the car will not idle long enough)... If I remote start the car I have FI to all four cyls and it runs beautifully, idles etc...

(Additional background info: When I took over fixing the car I found a white FI wire on the plus side of the coil.. The car ran super rich and the FI was growling all the time.. As per many have said on this forum I moved that white wire to the neg side of the coil which is where it is now.. don't know if there is any relationship to my current dillemma or not...).

All help appreciated.. thanks, Broz97

BTW, a couple other points... with the yellow wire off the solenoid the fuel pump runs constantly.... without the yellow wire it does no (this is all pre-cranking, engine static)

White wire on the coil? Where does it go? What other color wires are on the coil? Can you shoot a pic of the coil?

That relay is a 74 only deal. And quite a pain for no gain.

I was out riding my Triumph sorry for the delay...

Here is a picture of the coil wiring as it sits.....
Black to positive, Green to positive / Red/Black tach to negative, white to negative from FI harness. All sensors, injectors, distributor, coil et al work fine with yellow wire from solenoid disconnected... lets concentrate on the yellow wires circuit and see what this could be about.... yes , points condenser on the dizzy... 009 Dizzy

More yellow starter wire circuit thoughts please... Ignition switch et al Thanks Broz97

Er, green should be on the -. That should be from the points/condenser. Idk about any white wire.

"Underthetire", Thanks for jumping in...
Here is a coil pic with the polarity marked...

Now anybody got a clue where the circuit for the yellow solenoid to ignition wire is... I don't see it in the wiring diagrams for the 1973 1.7L D-Jet, nor did I see any white wire going to the neg side of the coil... what's up with that fellow 914' ers. Is our car an annomily?

thanks, Broz97 in Mile High Denver, CO

No, the problem is car is running but the wires isn't correct.
can you show where the white wire come from?(to coil)
something way weird is happening.

You have a Hayne book?

any chance you can send a pic of your remote setup?
so I can see what its touching.

I'm asking because you take great pictures!

Now I'm confused about the logic board. I have one, albeit disconnected, on my 75MY but NOT on my 73MY.
Did you say that 1- an injector was wired directly to the coil and 2- that you have a 009 dizzy????

weird, huh?

Move the green wire and try to figure out where that white wire goes. That white wire should not be on the coil. 73 1.7 djet had only power, tach and point(green wire) on the coil. Someone did something that ain't factory. No injection lines should be on the coil, at all. I'm betting that white wire is one of the ground lines for the ecu or injectors that is supposed to be on the case ground under the plenum.

Who needs trigger points, just wire them all in hot. Perhaps this was the predecessor of CIS?

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If you click on the picture you will get a clearer picture

You think!?

correct me if I'm wrong. 009 dist. is for carbs. and maybe 1.8 L injection?

forgive my humble yet forgetful mind as I'm up my ass in house repair and need to escape!

Broz where are you at ?

Dam Rick!

You're good

never mind, brain fart!
Cesar

I thought the 009 was to keep the newspaper from flying out of the garbage can.). He did say 73 1.7, we all would assume djet then...

Yup

At the coil there should be a black and red wire going to the 15 (+) terminal. This wire should be hot with the key on.
There should be a black and purple wire going to terminal 1 (-). This is for the tach, car will run without this.
There should be a green wire gioing to terminal 1 (-). This is to the points.

No FI wires go to the coil unless this is really a 74 1.8L with AFC Fuel Injection.

Jim

How does the relay board look? Bad Starter realy plug?

Move the green wire to the- side of the coil. Remove the white wire, it does not belong there. It probably goes to the aar. Thats the only thing in that area on a1.7.

Broz97,
Someone has done some rewiring. Here is what I would do. Using a VOM, measure the voltage on the yellow wire with the car running. If no voltage, ( it shouldn't be any), measure the voltage at the spade connector at the solenoid. It should also be no voltage. Then measure for resistance to ground at both places. Let us know what you find out, then we can lead you to more checks.
Those wires on the coil are not correct and need to be corrected also. Can you see what kind of shape the relay board is in? Dirty, oily, corroded ? If you start removing the connectors on the relay board be advised it is best to disconnect the battery before starting. There are hot connections on the 14 pin connector that are right next to a ground pin and can cause a short and fire.
Tom

Thanks guys for adding some ideas.... Getting some snow, motor pics are delayed... see pic below....
One thing I have been hoping someone would chime in on is the starting circuit from ignition to starter and ignition to what causes the FI to run a few seconds and not longer until TPS takes over at motor start...
This circuit may help me understand what is happening..

error notice:BTW my Dizzy is a 007 not 9... my typo

The mysterious white wire, The white wire to coil negative has been discussed in several old threads on here.. There is an additional white wire that hooks up the red wired AAR? Again, the car came to me with a rich exhaust cloud and that white wire on the positive side of the coil... moving it made things work right as long as I remote start. BTW the remote starter power clips were put....1 to neg/black side of solenoid and othe other clip to the blade atop the solenoid that the yellow wire came off of.
Hope I am not losing anyone here... Gotta get to the bottom of this..Stat.. Broz97

So the remote starter is clipped to the starter itself?

is there another relay nearby with wires connected to the starter also?

This is a hot start relay set-up, if you have one, that is.

The "growl" sound? more closer to a hum?
this is your fuel pump, (and you have 29 lbs, which in turn, perfect!)

"Because it's almost a 40 year old car, " check connectors,the fuses in the relay board in the engine compartment,behind driver side,crap builds and don't get good contact.


BTW you only got a dusting over there,I've about 5 inches here at
Mile High 914 (officially at 5230')

Starter wire.....

Comes from ignition switch to Pin 1 on the 14 pin connector on the relay board.

From relay board, Pin 6 on the 12 pin ignition harness to starter.

That make sense.

Now Broz, get out there and check!

And I should have added that the white wire that goes to the red wire on the AAR is switched 12 VDC. Hot at all times the key is on. Comes from pin 12 on the relay board to the AAR. Wire is in the engine harness.

Thanks to everyone who chimed in... dang weather is so bad I can't get at it for a couple days... BUT I will and I will do the checks recommended and post results....
Thanks jcd914 As you said, no white wire on coil w/ 1.7 D-Jet...
I spent quite a while tonight researching any post about a white wire on coil and came up with the L-Jet 1.8 using that white coil wire to trigger FI pulses (914club forum)... No reference to a 1973 D-Jet 1.7L... so off it comes to remain disconnected...
BTW: When that white lead is connected to the + power side of the coil the fuel pump runs constantly, hope that tells someone something.
Sure hope it still runs with the white wire off the - coil terminal...
I'll let you all know.........

Thank You rick 918-S for the color wiring diagrams.. BIG help
Thank You cwpeden, I will get to the relay board soon
Thank You Tom, I will also check that yellow wire for voltage and the spade connector for voltage with key on...
Majkos When I say remote start I am talking a handheld switch with wires running to the solenoid. No relay setup. The growl I am referencing is the Hum of the fuel pump running constant. >And that dusting of snow we got here is approaching six inches as well..LOL
Thanks SLITS, the starter circuit info is really helpful. BTW, white wire to AAR is present and hooked up. The white wire I'm referencing is off the FI harness near the coil. Doesn't show in any 1.7L wiring diagram.. weird deal...
Below I have posted a wider perspective photo of that white wire...
Stay tuned Gentlemen.... more detail to follow asap... Best, Broz97

Slits is right about pin 12 as the power source for the white wire to the AAR but the diagrams I have show pin 12 is down stream of the fuel pump relay and should only get power when the relay to energised and the pump should run.
If the white wire you have hooked to the coil, should be hooked to the AAR then this would explain why the pump runs anytime the key is on as you are back feeding the fuel pump from the coil.
That would also mean that the white wire you have hooked to the AAR is for the cold start thermo switch or the air temp sensor. If it is the cold start wire then your cold start injector will ground thru the AAR and spray all the time the engine is cranking. You are probably going to have to use an ohm meter and pull the ECU connector to trace out which white wire goes to which terminal at the ECU and the fuse panel.
Not sure how any of that ties into the starter circuit.

Jim

Back to work here after a cold snap....

A couple things Jim... The AAR wire has an end specific to its plastic block connector and the AAR is working. The cold start injector wire is a multiple wire specific plug and it is inserted. Maybe another look at the harnesses and the mystery wite wire in situ will help.. See Pics.
Can anyone with a 1973 1.7 take a look at their harness and see if they have a white wire located in the same place. The harness in question has a gray sheath on my car and the wire comes out near the coil of the bundle that has the FI / distibutor plug lead and the 3 wire plug lead to the cold start injector. The mystery wire is some distance from the plenum grounds as you can see.

There is one more white wire in that area, but only on a 2.0 harness. It goes to the thermo switch which is mounted on the the passengers side of the plenum. The 1.7 switch is located on the other side by the throttle body. Is it possible you have a 2L harness? I believe the thermo switch on the 1.7 is fed from the cold start valve.

914 Nation... I am pleased to announce another happy ending and the addition of another 914 to the running population...
Yesterday, I finished replacing the ignition switch with a German made switch purchased from NAPA ($25).. Upon removal I found the original switch had a crack at the top close to the tumbler section... while I do not know the switch was faulty (see pic), the replacement certainly works smoothly now. Before I tested it, I decided to pull the mystery white wire from the coil as suggested and let it hang free ... The motor cranked for about 6 revolutions and fired right up.... R you kidding me... mystery solved?
Sometimes you just chase your tail... then, (taking a line from Winnie the Pooh's EEYORE) you start to say "why put my tail back on, its just going to fall off again"
The "bridge to nowhere" freaking white wire mystery solved...
Starts, runs, idles drives like a champ..... Happy.. does not aptly describe my buddy as he drove it out of the driveway after 3 months of cleanup and repair..

Thanks to all who took the time to read my posts, answer my questions and hypothecate a solution... Next we will tackle shift linkage bushings, sticking pass side headlight, dark L rear turn signal bulb, roof rubbers, broken Passenger door handle, etc., etc, ad infinitum...
Thanks Again.... I'll be back soon I am sure..
Happy Holidays ! Broz

BTW... Another challenge when changing the ign switch was the brass clip which fell out of the turn / wiper switch assembly on the floor.... another hour of fun... for those that have inquired, and, I saw a few inquires on the various forums and no solutions... here is a pic of it installed... Yeah...

If you would have listened to us to begin, with you would have been driving the car 2 weeks ago.

Glad to hear the good news.