 Six vs. Four, make a decision |
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| gothspeed |
 Aug 29 2009, 09:47 AM
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#41
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Senior Member  Group: Members Posts: 1,539 Joined: 3-February 09 From: SoCal Member No.: 10,019 Region Association: None  |
QUOTE(Jake Raby @ Aug 17 2004, 06:18 AM)  Of course I voted Big Four. Without a doubt run a 2270 or a 2316. The 2270 is good for no less than 145HP, and the 2316 is good for no less than 175HP. When you go bigger than these two engines, the only way to reliably do it is with a set of Nickies, then the build becomes a Superhero and is no longer affordable. I am really tired of the whole thing with which is the best way to go......... I gave up on the 914 market a long time ago, and now if I sell one for a 914 I consider it a freak thing. I have a buyer for the plans to 9 of my 914 engine combos and if things keep up I'll be selling them at the first of the year. The buyer is in Europe, where conversions are more trouble than they are worth, literally. So you will not be selling kits anymore........ (IMG:style_emoticons/default/huh.gif) ?? I think your engines are great ..... they are light and powerful ...... exactly what I think these cars should be ....... I have had 911s/930/993TT and I think those 'big six' engines are too heavy for the 914 chassis ....... sure there are plenty of great examples but they need all kinds chassis reinforcements, monster wheels/tires and tons of other stuff to balance the car ...... which are components that add weight .......... I am of the opinion that one can build a light four cylinder 914 that will run just as hard around a track as a 'loaded up' 914 with a 'big six'......... without the expense of a 'big six'. That is the reason I bought a 914 ........ I was tired of all the complexity of those bigger 'faster' cars ........ the 'bigger is better race' was just never going to end ...... ultimately I want about 150hp four in a lightweight, sway barred, GT flared chassis ......... so I don't have to run wheels bigger than Fuchs 7s and 8s ....... it will look awesome, be a blast to drive and will be easy to work on .......... (IMG:style_emoticons/default/driving.gif) So what will be the ultimate status of your engine kits in the next year or so Mr. Raby? |
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| KELTY360 |
Aug 29 2009, 10:53 AM
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#42
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914 Neferati Group: Members Posts: 5,138 Joined: 31-December 05 From: Pt. Townsend, WA Member No.: 5,344 Region Association: Pacific Northwest 
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QUOTE(HaraldD @ Aug 29 2009, 01:00 AM) Hello! I voted for small Six... Here`s something for your Ears....: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TWQPzcw1oac 2,0 "S" with a little bit more HP (about 185)... (IMG:style_emoticons/default/driving.gif) Now that's an eloquent argument! |
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| jmill |
Aug 29 2009, 11:26 AM
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#43
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Green Hornet Group: Members Posts: 2,449 Joined: 9-May 08 From: Racine, Wisconsin Member No.: 9,038 Region Association: Upper MidWest |
Another 5 year old thread dug up. You gotta love it. Don't get freaked out Gothspeed. Jake wrote that 5 years ago.
BTW - I voted small 6. Nothing like that sound at 8k. |
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| gothspeed |
Aug 29 2009, 12:04 PM
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#44
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Senior Member Group: Members Posts: 1,539 Joined: 3-February 09 From: SoCal Member No.: 10,019 Region Association: None |
QUOTE(jmill @ Aug 29 2009, 10:26 AM) Another 5 year old thread dug up. You gotta love it. Don't get freaked out Gothspeed. Jake wrote that 5 years ago. BTW - I voted small 6. Nothing like that sound at 8k. ................ lol .............. I never look at the thread dates (IMG:style_emoticons/default/wacko.gif) ............................... looks like Jake was either sarcastic or tired that one day ........ (IMG:style_emoticons/default/wink.gif) I will agree a nicely balanced six at 8k RPM does sound fantastic .......... (IMG:style_emoticons/default/shades.gif) |
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| Drums66 |
Aug 29 2009, 01:27 PM
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#45
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914 Rudiments Group: Members Posts: 5,321 Joined: 15-January 03 From: Coronado,Cali Member No.: 151 Region Association: Southwest Region |
I voted big 4......but as someone previously stated
be an Individual??...do what you like. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smoke.gif) (IMG:style_emoticons/default/popcorn[1].gif) |
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| cwpeden |
Aug 29 2009, 02:48 PM
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#46
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Great White North, huh? Group: Members Posts: 916 Joined: 20-August 06 From: Victoria BC Member No.: 6,693 Region Association: Canada |
Any four....type 4 that is
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| rfuerst911sc |
Aug 29 2009, 04:23 PM
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#47
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Advanced Member Group: Members Posts: 2,158 Joined: 4-May 06 From: Dahlonega , Georgia Member No.: 5,980 Region Association: South East States |
I voted mid-size six because I'm almost done with my 3.0 conversion. For me aprox. 200 hp with stock internals and 40mmWebers along with headers should be a nice package. I know I can get more power with better pistons and cams but I'm thinking this will be a very exciting ride as is. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/biggrin.gif)
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| BMXerror |
Aug 29 2009, 06:55 PM
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#48
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Senior Member Group: Members Posts: 1,705 Joined: 8-April 06 From: Hesperia Ca Member No.: 5,842 |
I put 'alternate conversion motor' because there's no option for flat-8. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/biggrin.gif)
Mark D. |
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| tornik550 |
Aug 29 2009, 08:33 PM
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#49
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Senior Member Group: Members Posts: 1,248 Joined: 29-January 07 From: Ohio Member No.: 7,486 Region Association: None |
I vote for BIG FOUR. I personally much prefer the 4 because of its simplicity and its weight. Sixes are nice however the are expensive, heavy and complicated. I personally am not interested in v8's and so forth.
I enjoy the precision and finesse that is required to make a 914/4 fast. |
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| Jake Raby |
Aug 29 2009, 11:31 PM
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#50
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Engine Surgeon Group: Members Posts: 9,398 Joined: 31-August 03 From: Lost Member No.: 1,095 Region Association: South East States |
Lots has changed since I posted this 5 years ago.. Now with the teener bringing more money and being owned by a different group of enthusiasts engines are being built more precisely and the appreciation the /4 deserves is being applied...
There were several years where I was really down on the 914 application, everyone wanting to do the cheapest thing and cutting corners.. About the time I was going to pull the plug on the teener the following changed... Today we sell more 914 specific engine kits than anything other than the VW Bus combinations. I restructure the engine kit program every two years to update the combos and refine the processes.. I am taking it offline in October for the 2010 and 2011 updates, details about these are on my forums... |
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| Justinp71 |
Aug 29 2009, 11:34 PM
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#51
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Senior Member Group: Members Posts: 1,639 Joined: 11-October 04 From: Sacramento, CA Member No.: 2,922 Region Association: None
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QUOTE(rfuerst911sc @ Aug 29 2009, 03:23 PM) I voted mid-size six because I'm almost done with my 3.0 conversion. For me aprox. 200 hp with stock internals and 40mmWebers along with headers should be a nice package. I know I can get more power with better pistons and cams but I'm thinking this will be a very exciting ride as is. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/biggrin.gif) You're gonna love your car when you get it on the road, I just did the same swap last year... Its great on the track too. There is no substitute for a Flat Six... That is Porsche's motto right? I will admit though its hard to beat a setup four at an a/x. |
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| J P Stein |
Aug 30 2009, 06:19 AM
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#52
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Irrelevant old fart Group: Members Posts: 8,797 Joined: 30-December 02 From: Vancouver, WA Member No.: 45 Region Association: None |
QUOTE(Justinp71 @ Aug 29 2009, 10:34 PM) I will admit though its hard to beat a setup four at an a/x. No it's not. All one needs is a more well set up 6. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/biggrin.gif) Shameless plug: Buy my mine & 4get about 4s. |
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| Joe Ricard |
Aug 30 2009, 08:10 AM
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#53
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CUMONIWANNARACEU Group: Members Posts: 6,811 Joined: 5-January 03 From: Gautier, MS Member No.: 92 |
JP just curious what your weight distribution is on your car.
Having weighed my car recently I am 60% to the rear and my Massive type IV is significantly lighter than your 6. |
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| J P Stein |
Aug 30 2009, 10:54 AM
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#54
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Irrelevant old fart Group: Members Posts: 8,797 Joined: 30-December 02 From: Vancouver, WA Member No.: 45 Region Association: None |
It's been a while since I corner balanced, but as I recall it's 58 % on the rear. I may have the numbers somewhere.
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| ConeDodger |
Aug 30 2009, 12:02 PM
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#55
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Apex killer! Group: Members Posts: 24,089 Joined: 31-December 04 From: Tahoe Area Member No.: 3,380 Region Association: Northern California
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Mine is a perfect 50% crossweight... Flat as a 12 year old Catholic girl in corners. Hard to beat a good 4 cylinder for weight and balance. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/biggrin.gif)
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| Bill D |
Aug 30 2009, 03:38 PM
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#56
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Member Group: Members Posts: 66 Joined: 1-August 06 From: North Carolina Member No.: 6,558 |
Had a stock 4 for several years as a daily driver until my wife got hit head on while driving it by a 68 chevy that ran a light at highway speed. Never liked the sound of the 4. My first Porsche was a 914-6 and I loved every thing about it. I would vote for a 3.2 motronic but I'm sill in the middle of the 1.9TD conversion which is my 1st choice now.
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| Rand |
Aug 30 2009, 05:28 PM
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#57
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Cross Member Group: Members Posts: 7,413 Joined: 8-February 05 From: OR Member No.: 3,573 Region Association: None |
Hey Trek, you enjoying this revival from over the fence??? (IMG:style_emoticons/default/tongue.gif)
Chime back in to your poll. About time for it. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/beerchug.gif) |
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| Bills914-4 |
Aug 30 2009, 07:56 PM
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#58
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Member Group: Members Posts: 313 Joined: 1-March 08 From: suburbs of Miami FL. Member No.: 8,762 Region Association: South East States |
I vote a 4, in my case a big 4
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| gothspeed |
Aug 30 2009, 08:35 PM
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#59
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Senior Member Group: Members Posts: 1,539 Joined: 3-February 09 From: SoCal Member No.: 10,019 Region Association: None |
QUOTE(Jake Raby @ Aug 29 2009, 10:31 PM) Lots has changed since I posted this 5 years ago.. Now with the teener bringing more money and being owned by a different group of enthusiasts engines are being built more precisely and the appreciation the /4 deserves is being applied... There were several years where I was really down on the 914 application, everyone wanting to do the cheapest thing and cutting corners.. About the time I was going to pull the plug on the teener the following changed... Today we sell more 914 specific engine kits than anything other than the VW Bus combinations. I restructure the engine kit program every two years to update the combos and refine the processes.. I am taking it offline in October for the 2010 and 2011 updates, details about these are on my forums... Alright!!!! .............. once the 150 HP mark was done reliably on a type IV ........ there is really no reason to go with a six ...... the six will have more power but much of it goes to offset the added weight ...... when coupled with all the chassis mods required .... which add even more weight, there is really no significant net return on 'overall' performance IMO ........ I would love to have have one of Raby's type IV kits (if possible a higher RPM version, with peak HP at 6500 RPM) ...... but that will happen when significant moves in my logistics are completed ........ (IMG:style_emoticons/default/shades.gif) |
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| Jake Raby |
Aug 30 2009, 08:43 PM
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#60
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Engine Surgeon Group: Members Posts: 9,398 Joined: 31-August 03 From: Lost Member No.: 1,095 Region Association: South East States |
I try to keep peak HP at 6,000 RPM.. When I have tuned for higher peak output the precious torque was compromised.
Smart people know that torque is more important than HP.. HP sells engines, torque wins races. RPM= friction. friction= heat. Heat and friction= wear The key to our success has been keeping engines alive and exceeding power output expectations.. Torque has been the key to all of that, HP not so much. |
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