Here it is.
Make a choice, and then tell us all why you say so.

Argue somewhere else. Make your point and move on, please.


Thanks 914club!

Trekkor

I fell in love with an 2.4 MFI six

In decreasing order of HP requirements:

I vote big six for over 200hp


big four for around 150hp


stockish 2L for around 100hp

I voted Mid Six, but really anything 2.2S and bigger is great!
But I'd buy a real six and leave it as is, well maybe 2.0 S pistons and E cams and be happy.

A 2270 that is well built will put out enough horsepower to make a 914 an exciting daily driver without overpowering it. Small sixes are a ton of work for no HP gain, big sixes are expensive, and V8 are so overpowered that daily driving becomes a chore.

I voted big six.
The no hassle DME 3.2 is priceless over all.
But I do miss my 2.7 with webers.
The 2.7 was a direct bolt up with early stock flywheel and clutch.
I also miss the awesome sound of the webers especially in the Alameda tunnel.

But I don't miss the pulled head studs, clogged jets and tensioner problems.
All but the carb hassle could of been fixed with a proper overhaul.

The 3.2 motor cost me less money than over hauling the 2.7 and it already had all the updates with no carb hassles.

At the time 3.6 motors were to much money and hassle.
Cutting up the tin and major hassle to get to the bottom plugs turned me off.

If or when my 3.2 dies I might look into a 3.6 since they have dropped in price...

Steve

v8's for the cost of maintaining.... Parts are cheap, and everywhere..

I suppose small six is 2.0 - 2.7 L, mid six is 3.0 - 3.2 L and big six is 3.6 L. Right ??

Then my choice is mid six

i voted big /6.......no other logical choice when there is no budget contraint...well, at least with your poll it's an unlimited option

small six, with E or S or better cam, high compression, perhaps twin plugs, perhaps slightly stiffer valve springs, with appropriate gearing.

Will have good torque and will positively howl. Take it to 8K and enjoy.

Michel Richard

Of course I voted Big Four.

Without a doubt run a 2270 or a 2316. The 2270 is good for no less than 145HP, and the 2316 is good for no less than 175HP.

When you go bigger than these two engines, the only way to reliably do it is with a set of Nickies, then the build becomes a Superhero and is no longer affordable.

I am really tired of the whole thing with which is the best way to go......... I gave up on the 914 market a long time ago, and now if I sell one for a 914 I consider it a freak thing. I have a buyer for the plans to 9 of my 914 engine combos and if things keep up I'll be selling them at the first of the year. The buyer is in Europe, where conversions are more trouble than they are worth, literally.

I thought I was a freak, now I'm sure.

dr

I voted big six, my reason is that I felt Porsche should of built the 914 with the same running gear and engines as they evolved in 911's, It was my dream back in the 70's that they would, and hoped Porsche would build a 914 turbo carrera. They didn't so I did.
I now have a a car that is easy and smooth and very drivable around town, yet can crank it up on demand.

The 2.0 fours deliver a very nice smooth fun economical daily driving car which is great on the highway and I enjoyed driving one for 30 years, but it should of least had a six option throughout it's years of production.

Add 90mm Euro RS P&C's (fairly inexpensive) to any 66mm 2.0 - 2.2 block. Rebush the rod ends to raise your compression back up (RS's were fairly low and even lower on a 66m crank). Install S-Cams and Webers and have fun with your 230hp 2.5 liter mid-six monster.

my .02:

if you are wanting an engine for POWER... go Chebbie...


if you want the sound of a six... go 3.0+

if you just want to get there quickly, and keep the car a classic cool(with still plenty of pep) go big 4 (2056, or 2270)... and get a Raby engine...


me, personally, it would be a Raby or a Chevy... the 6 conversion would be something I would just want to do to say "I did it"... the Chevy will offer more power for less $$$, and the 4 is just plain cooler to me!

A six may be neat but the price to do one right here will buy me 2 or 3 nice 914’s.

I love how the cali /6 guys brag about their 200.000mile maintaince free 3.0 or 3.2’s, but up here these engines still have stud issues. Not pulling, but rusting and breaking. The cost of a 3.0 or 3.2 engine, again up here, is around 10 to 15K (Canadian) depending if it’s a top end or rebuilt. By the time you add the conversion I may as well go buy a nice 911 and have 2 cars.

I can rebuild a four or a six, as I’ve done both, but I’ll still do a four for myself, but that may be just because I’m a bug guy and I have always had fours

Besides, I have a rather large penis and don’t have to prove anything.

I am perfectally happy with my stock 1.7L. My car will go the speed limit and far beyond it and that is all a care about. But i have to say it would be fun to have about 160hp.

A Nickies equipped four, with DLC coatings, new advancements and fine craftsmanship could stay with the six boys that brag about 200K miles. I have seen a TIV bottom end with 321K miles not even need an align bore!

Love my 2.2 with E cams and Webers - kick in the pant to drive and that sound...

A big four gets my vote. Alot easier and cheaper to do than a six conversion for us nonengineer types. Considering the price of the six conversion, I'd probably buy a nice 911 Targa, keep my 914, and call it even.

O-O-O-O! Powerpowerpower. Yeah.

Too much of a good thing is never enough.

(null vote -- more power than a stock 1.8 = Good)

i love reading about and seeing pictures of the conversions you guys do, but affordability is the name of the game here. i am ecstatic that i will soon be installing dual 34 webers on my 1.7. my car is still a blast to drive, and if i take care of it, maybe i can go with big hp later in its life. keep the Porsche porn coming!

Jake, i wish i had the money to send you in exchange for an engine. I get downright inspired whenever you post a dyno readout. rawk on! leave it to a former Marine to take something and make it more powerful.

Considering that Marines are usually really good at destroying things I take that as a compliment for sure.

i understand you have destroyed a few engines in the process of developing the power! blowing up stuff is cool.

what i was alluding to in the first comment was your taking something you wanted to use and improving it through modification. i am sure you saw that sort of thing in the green machine, from tools to expedient antenna.

keep up the good work; i may be too poor (or cheap) to afford one of those awesome type IVs, but by gosh, i sure appreciate seeing what you do.

This is like asking how high is up?

The answer is- it all depends on what you want to do with it.
Autox or Land Speed record or fun street car.

I say a big -6 would be fun just to hear it.

Paul

My vote is do what you wanna do and the hell with what anybody thinks/recommends.....research is gud, tho.

If YOU then don't like it, do sumthin else. There will always someone that says "I told you so".....fuckem'.

Enjoy yourself with whatever you do.....or redo.

2,8 RS -- izzat 'mid' or 'big' ? i called it 'mid' 'cause it'd be built on a pre-SC case.
it's big enough, it's strong enough, and doggone it, people like it.

2.7 Six
Great combination of power, relatively low weight (compared to big six or eight), tractability, noise, pedigree, and last but certainly not least - added resale value.
Until I can afford one however, I'll stick with my modified 2.0 four - a great second choice.

I voted BIG 4, 'cuz that's what I want.

J P

I second your comment ...

Eddie

I love everything that is being mentioned on this thread. Affordability, development, engine size, big engine, little engine, mid- engine, 2.0 vs. 2.7 vs. 3.2 vs 3.8, big engine, chevy (v-8 power), etc. I love it all!!

Then the question becomes what fits you at a particular time. At this time in my life---I do not want a Ferrari, Lambo, AC Cobra, Porsche, Corvette, Big Block Classics, Collectible cars, etc. I want a rev'er, a 2.x family engine in a mid engine car. Agas!! A Boxer??? NO!!! I like older things, a mid engine car and a reving engine. A Lotus??? Have one, not satisfied. Have a Corvette, Not Satisfied (good for touring, but not for club events). Alfa Romeo??? Have one and will restore because of special type car, but still not mid-engine, not quick, but is very agile. What is left since I can only relate to historic type cars (not Fix It Again Tony Cars). I keep coming back to Porsche. 911?? no, not mid-engine and its handling is quirky (tail end heavy). O'boy, a Boxster -- the car I am looking for all my life; too heavy, no character, no history, no---------------. Thus, the only thing left is a 914 and in my case it has to be a flat six in the 2.x family. It does not matter what size engine since they are quick, agile, and surprisingly dependable. The larger engines lead me to traveling the path of the "hot rodders". This path is different from the one I want to travel. American Hot Rodding is a great path and I have many friends who are involved with it.

The true Path for me is the 914 Sixer route. I can relate to the histories of the Grand Prix; I can relate to the histories of Porsche Club of America; I can relate to under powered cars willing on shear guts and staminia; I can relate tGo club involvement at the individual membership level; thus-----I can relate to history!!!! Gotta have my P-Car fix daily; thus----914-6 flat 2.x family. Don't need anything larger, otherwise buy a more current and up to-date car. Gotta have my fix, GOTTA HAVE MY 914 FLAT SIX.

WHAT KIND OF FIX DO YOU NEED?????

Steve Hurt

I voted mid six. Like I said a few weeks ago, I think 150-175hp six is a great motor for a 914. But that's just MHO.



That's what mine is supposed to be. And what it feels like. I love it. When it's back on the road, it will do time on a dyno so I can find out for sure what I've got.

Great comments

Good stuff ahead

I said mid SIX 'cus that's what I bought ( maybe a small SIX ).
That'd be o.k. too.

KT

I voted V8. Get a ride in one, then you'll understand. There's something to be said for a light car with gobs of torque.

I voted for any 4. I originally bought a stock 1.7. Later on raced it in stock trim. Currently I race with a 1.8 that develops about 150hp. Next I hope to have about 175+ behind me with the same displacement. I do have a 2.2 street car with about 175 and it is an absolute blast to drive. I don't need any more power than that, but more displacement for more bottom end torque in my street car would be awesome.
I really like being able to do more with less.

The 'other' big six. SVX Subaru 3.3l bored to 3.5l. 11:1 compression, moderate cams, header with reprogrammed stock ECU = 300+ HP in a reliable street engine while keeping the awesome flat six sound. Of course this is after I get the big Subaru four installed and going.
Steve

Hello!
I voted for small Six...
Here`s something for your Ears....:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TWQPzcw1oac

2,0 "S" with a little bit more HP (about 185)...

Def big four just on lightness and keeping it real concept though the coolest sound I ever heard was from a 2.0 6 with 12.5 compression and a GT muffler so I dont know. Id love to hear a big four with no muffler

This perspective would depend on position maybe; I see the six's and four's paired:

Both the small six and four underdogs show merit when you really get to wind them out. I feel complete when I have wrung them out knowing it is the touch and timing that now makes more differrence at those limits.

Both the mid six and four come into their own; it is very noticeable how an approachable underpowered agility has now equaly balanced in power-weight-responsiveness. The lean runner just filled out to what we believe we deserved right off the line.

Both the big six and fours are a departure. They are moody wild horses. They overwhelm the simplicity and also the easy balance. Balance now comes at a price and simplicity lost its' fight. What remains is a glaring beast a little less than violent to often alarming.

These cars (to me) remain stoicly in keeping with the bloodline, while heralding certain beautiful attitudes only our 914's possess. While the overall balance changes little, the power distributes a truly different presence.

The v8 alone presents such a solution of traditional power at lower cost and availablity. It truly overwhelms in torque and power and weight. A rotary or subaru or other mill finds solution in strange territory; very high revs, flat curve response and other un-914 manners.

I like them all- really and have learned to respect each as an opportunity of study.
Given the choice, I will like to wind out a smaller engine than to just tap a big power plant. But the mids only show themselves as matured while the remainder show the weaknesses of exhilarating wildness with that extra effort that follows~

Good question and one I have been pondering recently as I NEED more power in my 1.7l.

MY thoughts were to go mid size 3.0 3.2 six-cylinder, but I still think that building a powerful 4 will give the biggest buzz. I just love the idea of a tuned four. My car is used for a lot of long runs though and I'm concerned that if I have a tuned 4 that it may be a bit of a bore on long journeys. So then I think a standard 3.2 six would be perfect again, but then I worry about costs and rebuilding the six.

The engine in my 1.7L is a great one, reliable and solid + totally standard with perfect D-Jet, so I'm in two minds whether to leave it in place too...

Oh god!

So you will not be selling kits anymore........ ?? I think your engines are great ..... they are light and powerful ...... exactly what I think these cars should be ....... I have had 911s/930/993TT and I think those 'big six' engines are too heavy for the 914 chassis ....... sure there are plenty of great examples but they need all kinds chassis reinforcements, monster wheels/tires and tons of other stuff to balance the car ...... which are components that add weight .......... I am of the opinion that one can build a light four cylinder 914 that will run just as hard around a track as a 'loaded up' 914 with a 'big six'......... without the expense of a 'big six'.

That is the reason I bought a 914 ........ I was tired of all the complexity of those bigger 'faster' cars ........ the 'bigger is better race' was just never going to end ...... ultimately I want about 150hp four in a lightweight, sway barred, GT flared chassis ......... so I don't have to run wheels bigger than Fuchs 7s and 8s ....... it will look awesome, be a blast to drive and will be easy to work on ..........

So what will be the ultimate status of your engine kits in the next year or so Mr. Raby?

Now that's an eloquent argument!

Another 5 year old thread dug up. You gotta love it. Don't get freaked out Gothspeed. Jake wrote that 5 years ago.

BTW - I voted small 6. Nothing like that sound at 8k.

................ lol .............. I never look at the thread dates ............................... looks like Jake was either sarcastic or tired that one day ........

I will agree a nicely balanced six at 8k RPM does sound fantastic ..........

I voted big 4......but as someone previously stated
be an Individual??...do what you like.

Any four....type 4 that is

I voted mid-size six because I'm almost done with my 3.0 conversion. For me aprox. 200 hp with stock internals and 40mmWebers along with headers should be a nice package. I know I can get more power with better pistons and cams but I'm thinking this will be a very exciting ride as is.

I put 'alternate conversion motor' because there's no option for flat-8.
Mark D.

I vote for BIG FOUR. I personally much prefer the 4 because of its simplicity and its weight. Sixes are nice however the are expensive, heavy and complicated. I personally am not interested in v8's and so forth.

I enjoy the precision and finesse that is required to make a 914/4 fast.

Lots has changed since I posted this 5 years ago.. Now with the teener bringing more money and being owned by a different group of enthusiasts engines are being built more precisely and the appreciation the /4 deserves is being applied...

There were several years where I was really down on the 914 application, everyone wanting to do the cheapest thing and cutting corners.. About the time I was going to pull the plug on the teener the following changed... Today we sell more 914 specific engine kits than anything other than the VW Bus combinations.

I restructure the engine kit program every two years to update the combos and refine the processes.. I am taking it offline in October for the 2010 and 2011 updates, details about these are on my forums...