The V8 is not a chore but it is challenging. It can be a hand full on damp roads. I can't go back to a 4 after driving a V8. With my EFI it's a get in and go car. Now if I can only figure out the heater, then it would be better in the winter. Tires make a big difference with a V8. Right now I have Yokohama Advans with a tread wear of 60. Very nice in the summer, not so good in the winter with so much torque.

I am brand new to these cars. I have only had mine, a pretty nice '74 2.0, since the end of November and have only driven it three times. I really like driving through the twisties in this car and can only imagine that a 150-175 hp Four would be a whole lot of fun.

I voted Big Four and will eventually get one of Jakes kits to put in this car, or find another teener and build it just like I want without having to mess with my nice original car.

Dean

I voted big 4.

I have been into motorcycles ever since I was a kid. This taught me early on the importance of light weight.

I believe a big 4 is the ideal motor for the 914. It gives a good power to weight ratio and keeping the weight down helps in maintaining high corner speeds.

That said, a number of years ago I built a 71 240z with a 406 small block chevy and a 5 speed. In the case of the z it only added 150 lbs over the cast iron 6. It also moved the weight lower and further toward the center of the car.

I'm sticking with the big bore 4 at least for now.

big Four because:
car is purpose built to optimize class rules for target race group
weight
CG, center mass
the pride of stomping GT3s, twin turbos, 3.6s....with a 914/4
I want to do this with a car that lives in teh lower race classifications...below AR-1 cars...or IM. AM got competitive this year, wow
tire wear
cost
available parts
I would never do a six conversion with less than 220hp. my four will be close to that
I can pick it up in the shop alone

Still on track for a big four ..........

I have a 3.0 six, with webbers, cams and headers. I think this is a great setup. I think I have less into it then most do into a 180hp four cyl... This setup completely rocks!!!

I also believe the value of the car goes up much more with a six than a big four...

I've been on the 914 forums for 10-11 years. A ton of folks talk up what they are going to do with a big 4....kick ass & take names is the gereral drift. Bout as close as anyone has come is Randal & his rig......of course he has as much $$ in his motor as I have in my whole car (or damn close). He sat out last season entirely. There are a few quick 4 bangers but they are more driver/chassis set up than motor and they stay well away from SCCA AX cause they go into the big dog classes. I'm still waiting.

I love my big 4. I use mine for cruising around and also for autoX. Here are my reasons for my 4 preference.

1. 4 cyl is much easier to work on
2. 4 is lighter than 6
3. even though a big four is not exactly stock, there is something about having the original engine (however modified) in the car. i suppose a factory 6 would fall into this category. a car that has an engine that was meant for a different car doesn't have the same classic feel.

I can see the appeal of the various conversions however I prefer a Big Four.

I have a 4,6,8 cyl Porsche (although two are not 914's). I would take my 4 cyl any day over my 911 or Cayenne Turbo. I do love my 911 and CTT- just not as much as my 914-4!!!

iv got a vote for a turbo subie engine... i put a naturally aspirated in mine about a year ago and LOVE the torque curve, but would love it even more if i had 300 ponies behind my seat...

Just spanked a Lotus Elise not only around a dual lane onramp, but after. Turbo Subie ej20 JDM version TD05 turbo!

I agree with justinp71, value of car and drivability are hard to beat with a mild 6 conversion.

However...


1: EEEEEAAAAAA! Wrong. change cams? split case. Oh, your talking about the clearance to adjust the valves... Holy shee-iate batman! how ever will we grind those reliefs on those turbo valve covers to get them off????
2: True, by 150lbs give or take? 911 engines will weigh from 350-450lbs... I can assure you the heavier side of that scale will be in the 993 3.6L range. Power-to-weight-ratio anyone? anyone? Reliability of that much power in a 2000lb car? anyone?
3: Bollocks. Oh no, you blew up your massive 4... you can't possibly buy another cause its not the SAME motor that it came with. Oh, its the same type 4 sure, but not the same case number. how sad. what ever will I do? scrap it mate, its all you can do now. its no longer the original motor.

You know your Cayenne was tested in BMW X5 chassis to begin with right? So your really not enjoying that car like it was originally created and tested... its not original dude, won't have that "classic feel".... scrap that too.

EDIT: Damn, I get 4 gin and tonics in me and i'm a real negative nancy! I did love my 2.0L four, counterweighted crank, hotter cam, 40IDA webbers... first motor i built. I agree, they are fun motors. These cars were designed to have either a 4 or a 6. In 30 years time, an owner of a cheap ass 6cyl Cayenne wants to put a turbocharged 8cyl in it, but your going to say it didn't come that way and isn't "classic"? Really?

Anything you do to get a 914 close to a 10 :1 hp/wt rating makes the car fun as hell, its like driving a fast street legal go-kart.

But there is something cool about making a 914 all porsche... The car that never was bc porsche was scared to lose out on there 911 ass dragger (IMHO).

I've kinda changed my mind. big type 4 is still my first choice, but second only because of the amount of work is now a nice subaru h4

I'd love a six, but the price is just out of this world for me.

All I know is I built for a customer a big type 4, 2.7 nickies, DTM, 150 RWHP on the chassis dyno, runs great... after all that not enough.

I was building the same engine for myself, but now I'm going to stick that in my bug and build a six.

Keep in mind this poll/thread was started 6 years ago.

Things have changed a little for the 914 over those 6 years.

Back then I would have screamed "Make them all sixes!"

These days, I'm happy to find one that isn't a rusty bucket and mostly stock.

99% of the "sixes" I've seen, done, driven don't have heaters, noisy as all hell, stink like a gas can (most aren't FI'd) and don't have much more than 150-180hp.

Sure, there are a few that have had over 200hp or a few that have had heat, but not many.

I recall spending some 2g's in BB SS 914-6 heater boxes thinking, "this was probably the worst $2k I think I've ever spent on a single (well pair) part"

Give me a totally stock 914-6 with stock heaters and I think I'd be one happy dude.

But since I don't have that kind of cheese, I'm a happy dude with a stock 2.0 and then happy again maybe upping to a 2270 at some point. 140hp 914-4 would be just as much fun as any little 2.0-2.4 914-6 conversion I've ever done.



Plus I already have SSI's, ahhhhh, heat!

yeah Dan, 8-10 years ago I was starting my stash of six parts. In the meanwhile I took my 2L apart to make it a 2056 with a Raby FI cam just so I could enjoy it more. Love that combination! Sold off the six parts, you bought the engine...and started my BigFour parts stash which I still have....but I am in love with my 120hp four with heat, starts in 15F weather (this last winter), cruises at 100mph all day on my drives to visit friends far away and if my arm holds up I can AX again and do okay.
yes, it won't blow the doors of a lot of cars but I am past that...but with its suspension setup I can out turn nearly anyone on a track but they will pass me on the straights (Eddie914) .
I have great heat too! plus its quiet enough I can talk to Monique on drives to Southern Oregon and get 30mpg.

Each to his own I guess... I have a carb'd 3.0 and I love it. Its great and fast, like nothing else I have driven. I'd drive it everyday if it had a/c... dont really need the heat on the westcoast valley.

It does stink a little but not too bad, IMHO because most carbed cars dont have the gas tank vented to the engine and they remove the distributor timing advance (my car is pretty much missing both ), both could be corrected.

Justinp71,
I have the same combo in my car too. The 3.0 with P.M.O.carbs and Headers is a blast on the street and track. I had my distributor redone by Barry at I.A.E Inc. He is in Detroit and does a great job in recurving and getting the timing correct. Call him at 313-532-5350. He know Porsches and what to change. No guess work.
Van914

Three or four years ago, I was able to get a Raby kit for under $4k. Now, they are much more expensive. Better, I am sure. But it seems that the upsurge in prices for a hopped up 4 may have shifted this debate, other things remaining constant. Does the under $4-5k kit still exist?

I am very happy with the performance of my 2056, by the way. It is just perfect for the little car.

Everything is more expensive today.. Even a Big Mac.

Fact is prices have risen because of shitty parts and parts supply more than anything else, and they will continue to do so, especially with things like main bearings becoming non existent along with pushrod tubes and etc.

The economy hasn't really effected our sales, but it has killed several parts suppliers and their ability to keep items on the shelf.. We can't even get what we need to build engines in some instances.

I know people are leaning towards 3.6 and 3.8's now but I am still planning on putting a 3.2 box stock with Motronic in my car. I want something with moderate power and torque that is rock solid and reliable. The 3.2 seems to fit that criteria according to the many people with which I have spoken. So unless something changes by the time I get around to actually building the car, it will be a 3.2. Besides, I am old and do not plan to be racing the car anywhere.

They are only 2 for $3.50 here in SoCal ....... !!!

I'm glad this topic won't ever die

To bad Raby's getting fed up with the fickle 914 niche.


I vote Bastardization. Because a real heater and A/C are critical when convincing the better half to go on a long drive.

I chose A EZ36d out of a late subaru Tribeca or legacy. This is if money isn't an object.

A real heater? Wow, mine cooks you out in 5 minutes of driving even in the winter in Seattle when its 20F out.
AC, open the window or take the top off.
Now if I ship my 914 to Suriname I will install AC as its Hot and Humid here -95f and 90% Humidity.

My wife likes to drive the 914 on our trips as she zooms along passing everyone. She doesn't look at the speedo just says "It wants to go faster so I just go!". No tickets so far....

If I want Japanese I will buy Japanese....Like the stupid heavy Altezza I am driving now..POS.

That's a very good choice for a 914. I really like that combo for our cars ...

In fact, i was going to do just that until Bill Pickering made me an offer on his 3.6L package deal that i simply could not refuse.

Damn you Bill!
Andy

yep, the 3.2L setup is sweet and perfect for our cars. Then you have to spend the money to setup the rest of the car!

I found out in the 70's I could run the hell out of jap motorcycles and the same thing was the norm for jap cars for me since 77 and non of them leaked oil. The motorcycles were kwasaki's and then hondas and the cars were toyotas mostly. I appreciate any motor that can be run hard and doesn't leak oil from it's seals and doesn't need a byannual going over. The fords and chevs always needed valve cover gaskets or pan gaskets and my air cooled vw's always marked their spot somewhere under the motor or tranny.

I have found though that a turbo suby looks almost as oily as a air cooled vw after about 100k if the oil breather system isn't monitered.

Not fed up at all, just not wasting time helping people understand why the should stay with a -4 engine. I gladly work with those who choose our way.

BTW it was 103f here today, I drove Beth's 79 vert with T4 power(roller cam 2270) 80 miles to a meeting. The AC system kept the Cockpit just as comfortable as my Boxster or 996. In the winter the A/C system is converted to produce killer heat.

She is an accountant and drives this car anywhere she wants, (her commute is 79 miles daily) I have put 3k miles on it in 6 weeks myself since my 912e is down for updates.. Just because you stay T4 doesn't mean you can't have modern amenities on a longer drive.

A nice four banger is lighter and a lot more simple.

head says big four but heart says mid six so i voted and bought a mid six. nothing will compare to the roar of the triple webers and whine of the big fan behind my head

The answer is obvious - 1 of each.

When it's time for my rebuild I'll go big 4 because:

1. My car has the original GA engine and I'd like to keep it that way
2. I can keep the rest of the car the way it is and just bolt up the big 4
3. I am familiar with the 4 and how to maintain it
4. It's the cheapest way to put HP in the car and stay aircooled

I definitely want a six someday...but it will come with a 73 911T wrapped around it!

Yepp, them 911s make great donors!

When it was time for my 2.0 to be rebuilt, Jake talked to my wife about a rebuild of my existing 2.0. The very next day I had a 3.2 on the way to my house...

I'll have to use that strategy with my wife.

Whatever you run, it's a blasts as long as it runs well. I have driven "6" cars that were poorly assembled and poorly tuned... not fun.

From the point of view of someone that does NOT have the budget to do a proper "6" conversion..... I get much enjoyment from my 2.0(ish) motor.

Yes, it's not the power of a six, but I find the power, handling and exhaust sound appropriate for the car.

.... and my Weber 44's do sound like I'm going fast.... even though... you know



It's all about the budget you have, right? 4... 6..... as long as it's a proper 914!

I loved my /4 and wish I had never sold it.

I like my 2.7L ... it has enough power to get in trouble.

Whatever turns your crank ....................

......I agree.........that 4 was enough to make me happy

Back in the early 80's I bought European Racing's 2.4 kit for my 2.0 four. It consisted of 103mm piston and cylinders (103mm x 71mm stroke)?
It lasted between 10k-15k miles between overhauls. It cost me several thousand two times before I sold it. The first break down one of the rings broke and the second time it sucked a valve.

How many miles is everyone getting out of there big fours before it died with some problem that required you to pull the motor to get it fixed? I am curious how reliable they are compared to a six.

The best part is getting a motor ready and it's already in a car to test (the 911).
I picked up a 3.0L in a 1974 911 for $6k - it needed a major interior restoration - but it was driveable. So I get a low milage motor, a 915 tranny, 5 lug wheels, entire front end, gauges, and the ability to sell everything else. Got me a hell of a deal!

I think that's way to general a question. Are you comparing a factory built 6 to a garage built 4? Ebay p&c's or nickie's from jake? Lot's of variables to consider. One thing I do know is that no matter what size engine you choose, quality cost $.

Any big type 4, 2.3 liters or bigger. Just looking for feedback. Any details would be great. Home built, Jake motor, European Racing kit, etc. How many miles did you get out of it. What problems did you have with it?

Nothing quite like the sound of a big 6, but I am biased...

After driving around all weekend in the mountains, I decided the 3.2 isn't all that. It isn't factory and it is kind of loud. The 1.8 is going back in next week.

Keep it stock.

note that this thread started in 2004 - before renegade began offering a turbo subaru conversion kit and before several installed the subaru svx 6 cylinder engine in their cars with suby trans successfully. that said, some don't like radiators : ) there are several ways to view this thread. from a total cost to HP ratio. from a racing view point and what mods are allowed for a particular class. from the standpoint of the best weight balance for AX/etc. most importantly, before considering any conversion, one must ensure their (5 systems) brakes, suspension, steering, chassis and fuel systems are ready for more HP and G forces. a conversion, (sbc v8 with new crate engine $3k, renegade kit $3k, + install labor cost $3k - guesstimate) to (a good big six $4-8k, all the goodies needed to install it $5k + install labor cost $5k - guesstimate) - and - rebuilding all 5 systems can run $5k-$8k as well. add another $1000 to go 5 lug in front. luckily for many of the wrenches here - they do their own installing and in some cases fabrication as well. my current view. check ebay and craigslist for six prices.