You're gonna love your car when you get it on the road, I just did the same swap last year... Its great on the track too.

There is no substitute for a Flat Six... That is Porsche's motto right?

I will admit though its hard to beat a setup four at an a/x.

No it's not. All one needs is a more well set up 6.

Shameless plug: Buy my mine & 4get about 4s.

JP just curious what your weight distribution is on your car.
Having weighed my car recently I am 60% to the rear and my Massive type IV is significantly lighter than your 6.

It's been a while since I corner balanced, but as I recall it's 58 % on the rear. I may have the numbers somewhere.

Mine is a perfect 50% crossweight... Flat as a 12 year old Catholic girl in corners. Hard to beat a good 4 cylinder for weight and balance.

Had a stock 4 for several years as a daily driver until my wife got hit head on while driving it by a 68 chevy that ran a light at highway speed. Never liked the sound of the 4. My first Porsche was a 914-6 and I loved every thing about it. I would vote for a 3.2 motronic but I'm sill in the middle of the 1.9TD conversion which is my 1st choice now.

Hey Trek, you enjoying this revival from over the fence???
Chime back in to your poll. About time for it.

I vote a 4, in my case a big 4

Click to view attachment

Alright!!!! .............. once the 150 HP mark was done reliably on a type IV ........ there is really no reason to go with a six ...... the six will have more power but much of it goes to offset the added weight ...... when coupled with all the chassis mods required .... which add even more weight, there is really no significant net return on 'overall' performance IMO ........ I would love to have have one of Raby's type IV kits (if possible a higher RPM version, with peak HP at 6500 RPM) ...... but that will happen when significant moves in my logistics are completed ........

I try to keep peak HP at 6,000 RPM.. When I have tuned for higher peak output the precious torque was compromised.

Smart people know that torque is more important than HP.. HP sells engines, torque wins races.

RPM= friction. friction= heat. Heat and friction= wear

The key to our success has been keeping engines alive and exceeding power output expectations.. Torque has been the key to all of that, HP not so much.

Look, you all know that I am a curmodgeon. A mis sized six to me is somewhere between a 2.2 & 3.0 motor. Never cared much for the 2.2 in my E, and wouldn't want the long term hassles of a 2.7 (though it IS a sweat motor). The 3.0 is pretty much bulletproof but just doesn't look "period" in a 914.

I'd vote for a simple, easy to maintain 2.4 CIS motor. Looks close to correct, but gives a little extra poop over the stock 2 liter. Yeah, I know, it isn't carbed, but I'm only dreaming here anyway.
Pat

I am very familiar with how HP is made ..... Torque x RPM / 5252 = HP ...... a lot of racers like 'low RPM' torque, to get out of corners with a wallop .......... 6000 RPM peak HP is plenty good.............. my passion/experience is with higher RPM DOHC engines of other makes, so I was hoping to get some of that 'sound' here ...... ...... but it will not break my heart if these engines are not well suited for higher RPM.

I am happy you have done all this development on the type IV ....... this way I only have to build a solid Raby kit and go .................... I will probably go weber carbureted 'initially' ......... my 914 is a 1.7 and will need a 71mm crank at conversion time ........ I am not worried about 'perfect' drive-ability ..... just as long as it doesn't die on decel ......... or overheat (I will run additional oil cooling) ....... other than that .... 150 HP-ish should make me and my GT clone very happy

That keeps it simple.


Every kit I have offers excellent drive-ability.. Whether you think its important or not, it is.. Because it drives so damn good you'll drive it more often.


Do some searches.. I haven't had an overheating complaint in at least 7 years, the designs lend themselves to efficiency and that breeds cool running.


At 150HP these cars become fun... The revised kit program has several more medium output engines offered... But like everything else, prices are going up.

Damn, I think I just wet my pants!

I didn't notice that this was an old thread, so when I continued to read the posts I was reliefed when I read jakes lasts posts.

I'm a 911 lover and when I bought my 914 it was with plans to have it GT flared, and conversation to a 6. It will cost about the same as to restore a early 911 but I wanted something different. After the first year with the 914 I started to like it as it was, and after 2 years of sorting out the car my plans has changed completly. Now I have started to put back parts that wasn't orginal and my future plans is to keep it so it looks stock but uppgrade the brakes and in a 3-5 year span put in something stronger from Jakes magic shop. I will even keep the 4 lugs fuchs.

The only reason to not do the engine upgrade right now is that I wanted to feel how the car was when it leaved the factory, the engine and gearbox has been overhaulded and I have put in a lot of work and a bit of funds to get it there, so right now I enjoy it as it is and can take my time to figure out how I want my engine upgrade, the only thing I know is that a 6 conversation is not for me.

Yep!
Exactly what I was thinking back in 1987. So I did the 2.4T-CIS-six conversion over the winter of 1987-88.

My 2.4L-CIS motor has been very easy to maintain, gets great gas mileage, is ultra reliable, and is very long lived.
22 years later, it is still runing strong. I am extremely happy with this engine.

Maintenence: Tune it up once a year and replace seals once in awhile.
Gas Mileage: it gets 2-3 better MPG than the carbed 2.0L/4 it replaced (and is much faster!).
Reliability: 1 alternator replacement, 1 distributor replacement, 2 clutches, valve guides recently.
Long lived: The 2.4T engine already had 90K on it when I bought/installed it in 1987. It has ~295K miles on it now.

My only complaint: I wish the seals lived as long as the engine.
2nd complaint: I'd like to put a 3.2L-DME engine in the 914, but the 2.4L-CIS engine just won't quit!


Boy! You said it brother! Our 911SC still has its original (never been apart) 3.0L-CIS engine in it. Today that engine has 326K miles on it. BulletProof! You can't kill it, it just runs and runs and ....

The reason I voted for a ...4...four is....I prefer a small displacement engine..2.0. + or - or so, which can rev-up fast , peaky race cammed,and with lots of rpm,s..and H.P...I like the "screaming windup" of the F-1 sound. Of course this is matched with a VERY short ratio gearbox. As a old bastard, thats been "around the block" in many types of racing (porsches) My fun is now limited to driving thru the deserted, remote, backroads of a neighboring county. Stoping to feed the horses, deer , and move the turtles off the pavement. I am very Happy.

Both

For me, I would need 250-300hp, so that pretty much eliminates the 3L and 4's. I'd do the 3.2 if the budget was $20k or more (and hang with the porsche groups). $15k or less, the chevy or subie (and hang with the muscle crowd.)
I have a v8 now, but those L33 aluminum engine look tempting and cheap!

250HP from an N/A /4 on pump gas is a possibility.. In the past 4 years we've built 1/2 dozen of them... All twin plug beasts and one (265HP) was only 2.3 liters. The others were al 2.9 and 3.0 engines.

Dang !!!!! I guess I should up my expectations from 150HP ........... how much power is possible from N/A, weber carbureted, 91 octane and single plug ?


........ as of today ...... things got one solid step closer .......... to the big four ......... but still a quite a few steps to go .........

210 easily.. with dual Weber 44s.

I am looking at it this way:


FOr the price of a built 6, I can make probably 200+whp on a near stock Type IV with boost.

If/when I blow it up, I can swap it out and build another much better all while being under the cost of a six conversion and the 6 motor parts price tag.

If you want to go to a relatively modern turbo 6, your price goes way up apparently.

Bang for the $$$ and with modern turbo technology in mind, 4 pot is the way to go.

In 25 words or less, my reasons for going Subie turbo:
- easier to maintain modern engine,
- lighter compared to a small block Chevy,
- reliable 215 RWHP plus tunable to more if desired.

Only 215? Here let me tune that baby up to 252 like mine!

One cannot argue with that ... !!! ....... if/when I get my 914 to about 1800-1900 pounds (in street trim) ....... it should be a little monster .....

I voted other. I want a rotary. Light and fast.

Sure Budman - I'll be right over!
I'll be visiting a local tuner as soon as I free up a few more $$.

This thread needs to stay on the first page ......... ......... I will be working on my interior this holiday weekend ........... but the thought of having 200+ hp in my 914 is changing my priorities .......

I voted big 4, because that is my plan.

If the budget allowed, I'd love a 2.5 short stroke twin plug six.

Money no object would involve a Hartley H1.
2.8 L
400 HP @ 10,000 rpm
275 ft-lb @ 7,500 rpm
200 lbs

Click to view attachment

Dude you are the man for posting about this engine ....... 10k rpm sounds awesome ........ !!!!!

What are the prices for this little monster .... ??

EDIT: .............. I just looked it up ..... it will be about $30,000 ........... which sounds ok depending on what is included ....... is it full running with stacks and ECU? ....... or just a long block? ..........

One may also need to change to a taller ring and pinion on the stock 904 GB ........

two Honda motor glued together.
OK not glued.

Suzuki. Hayabusa.

Yea somethng like that.

A dyno video
Sounds pretty civil.

The loudest part is those Individual Throttle Bodies .......... I would build a completely different exhaust for it ............. to get that engine sounding more like an F1 car .....

I've been giving this some more thought today....

I'm going to go with big 4. It suits the car and I think that a big four with big fat downdraughts and a horizontal fan would look so good in my engine bay I have and give the car huge kudos (and originality) I had nasty looks today because I was going too fast down a country lane (Even though it's a 60mph limit over here) So to up the 90 bhp I have now to 170-180 would be plenty for me - so new thread coming up...

What does this horizontal fan you speak of look like?

I voted for a small six. I am a purist in that respect and a small six a la the 914/6gt is my cup 'o tea. Although I'm building a 2.2 (north of stock), I'd like to track something close to what Porsche raced in the 914's. Just my take. My second choice would be a race prepped 3.0-3.2 six .... just for the fun of it.

Hi Rod, what size of four are you looking at and have you got any ideas about who's going to build it?
I was toying with the idea of a turbo four for a while but in a way I'm glad I didn't as I'd still be fannying around with it now -and my car was on jackstands for well over 4 years.
180 horsepowers would be incredible, my 2.4 only has 140hp and is plenty quick enough for a 37 year old car. My reasoning in the end was the Porsche factory has done all the homework in producing sixes with anything from 110hp to well over 300. I just had to pick the one I wanted and plumb it in. With a six in it 'feels' like a proper Porsche -with my 4 I always felt it sounded like a beetle/camper.
Having said that with a 180hp four there'll be great satisfaction in embarrassing some much larger sixes

Hi, well 180 may be a bit optimistic, but 160 supposidly easily achievable. I was thinking a 2270 with twin 44's. I would love to get Jake to build me an engine, but looking closer to home I have been in contact with John Maher. Then you go and change my mind again I have a friend who is the tech manager over at Reading head office and he knows I'm looking for a six too..... Spoke to him at the pub yesterday and he said he could get his hands on a 996 turbo engine which has been knocking around in the workshop for a couple of years. Joking - I wouldn't go that far..

Are you going to the meet at Wellington country park in a fortnight btw?

Rod, where is Wellington country park? Are you meeting Sat or Sun (or both)?
I strongly recommend riding in a six before making your decision

I'm sure you were there last year - http://www.911porscheworld.com/mepasite/29...che_Picnic.aspx Only the Sunday. I have to be at a wedding on Sturday night, so I doubt I'll be there till the early pm. Would love a ride in a six

Ah...the Porscheworld picnic. Hmm it will depend on weather. If I'm there I'll take you for a spin in mine failing the opportunity for a better ride

Are you guys running any hill climbs in the UK?

Yes there are a few, I live 30 minutes from Brooklands, which you may have heard of?!?

The next hill climb in the uk is this one - http://www.shelsley-walsh.co.uk/events/con...ms=21&ei=73 Always good!

When I was living in the UK I was up visiting a buddy in Great Witley. We were sitting outside at his farm and I kept hearing what sounded like a F1 car racing somewhere. We jumped into a car and found the Shelsley Walsh event..

No question it was really great. They were running F1 cars from the past year.

Pretty spectacular watching an F1 run up that hill.

I love to bring one of my race cars over to run that hill. That is one of my life objectives!

Have fun and do post lots of video here.

I don't know Brooklands, but I'll look it up.

If the suspensions are good I like 'em all. I love the light weight of the fours.

BIG 6 was my vote though. I can always modulate the throttle to get out of trouble faster'n I got into it... probably... maybe... almost always.

Big 6 .... they just sound right and the seat of pants feel is YEEEEEEAAAAAH!

Funny thing is when I voted, 6 years ago it was for a big four.
Now the big type four is moving over to my '67 bug project and a hot street carbed 3.0/6 is the plan now.

3.0 SC make pee pee go stiff