SOT - I wish somebody would do this for our 914s, New 60's Mustang Body Shells Options

[zymurgist]

If there were the demnd , you would see 356 and 911 bodies being stamped new right now.

I know a guy who has a complete 911 long hood in this ball park. It's not quite rust free though...

[Tom_T]

Having a brand new chassis available is novel and interesting, but there is zero market for it. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/sad.gif)

(IMG:style_emoticons/default/agree.gif)

If THIS GUY can't even sell his tub for $300 you really think anyone here would fork out $15k for a new shell?

(IMG:style_emoticons/default/screwy.gif)

(IMG:style_emoticons/default/idea.gif) .....hmmmm, buy a $300 - 1000+ 40 year old rusty tub & put another $15-20k into de-rusting it with known 1970s steel & rust issues......

..... vs. $8 - 15k for a pristine new shell of modern mettalurgical more rust resistant & stronger steel with hot dip zinc rust-proofing that you shoot your paint color for another $5k in at about the same end total....

.... & then fit it out either shell with the rest of your 914's parts.....

..... assuming - shell for shell - that all other than the shell/paint & body costs are the same for drivetrain, interior, etc. for either approach?

YUP - for a body that is pristine & won't rust in my lifetime & probably not my son's either - you betcha! (IMG:style_emoticons/default/aktion035.gif)

They are two completely different approaches Andy, Mark, Scotty, et al -
.... one gets you a resto that probably won't rust but is not the original body,
.... while the other is the original body & car but is guaranteed to eventually rust again!

Each approach is valid, and neither puts the body guys out of business, but rather changes their work order.

If Porsche still had an $8k "body in white" available, then I'd have bought it & might be on the road by now - work, other cars, honey-do list, etc. permitting! (IMG:style_emoticons/default/dry.gif)

[SirAndy]

(IMG:style_emoticons/default/idea.gif) .....hmmmm, buy a $300 - 1000+ 40 year old rusty tub & put another $15-20k into de-rusting it with known 1970s steel & rust issues......

I'm not sure where you live, but around here you can repair a fairly rust free 40 year old tub to pristine conditions for a *lot* less than $15k.
(IMG:style_emoticons/default/shades.gif)

Talking about how cool a brand new "body in white" 914 would be is one thing, actually putting money on the table when it's time to pay up is a completely different story.
(IMG:style_emoticons/default/popcorn[1].gif)

[zymurgist]

Talking about how cool a brand new "body in white" 914 would be is one thing, actually putting money on the table when it's time to pay up is a completely different story.
(IMG:style_emoticons/default/popcorn[1].gif)

(IMG:style_emoticons/default/agree.gif) It took a while to get the first flare group buy rolling, and that was only $600. Pocket change compared with a whole body.

[513mugsy]

I agree $15K for a new body sounds like a lot. But if the values on all 914 would jump by say +$10K in the next ten years even, that idea would probably peak alot of interest. The Mustangs/Camaros/GMC truck values have steadily been climbing for the last ten years. So $15K for a new totally rust free body would be a great buy for them.

[Tom_T]

(IMG:style_emoticons/default/idea.gif) .....hmmmm, buy a $300 - 1000+ 40 year old rusty tub & put another $15-20k into de-rusting it with known 1970s steel & rust issues......

I'm not sure where you live, but around here you can repair a fairly rust free 40 year old tub to pristine conditions for a *lot* less than $15k.
(IMG:style_emoticons/default/shades.gif)

Talking about how cool a brand new "body in white" 914 would be is one thing, actually putting money on the table when it's time to pay up is a completely different story.
(IMG:style_emoticons/default/popcorn[1].gif)

My Southwest Visa is/was ready at hand for an instant transaction, and in fact earlier this year I had a parts guy look through the entire Porsche system for one of their NOS ones!

So keep eating your popcorn & let me know if you really hear of one available! (IMG:style_emoticons/default/shades.gif)

EDIT -
BTW - isn't "fairly rust free" and a 40 year old 914 tub an oxymoron!!?? (IMG:style_emoticons/default/poke.gif) (IMG:style_emoticons/default/laugh.gif)
... if only George Carlin were around today, he could probably do a whole bit on 914s & 1960s - 70s cars, restos, rust & the insanity! (IMG:style_emoticons/default/biggrin.gif)

[zymurgist]

I agree $15K for a new body sounds like a lot. But if the values on all 914 would jump by say +$10K in the next ten years even, that idea would probably peak alot of interest. The Mustangs/Camaros/GMC truck values have steadily been climbing for the last ten years. So $15K for a new totally rust free body would be a great buy for them.

That's assuming a lot, and betting on what the economy is going to do in the next 10 years. Here's a 911 that is a lot nicer than mine that didn't even hit the reserve on ebay.

1969 911 2.7RS Clone

Sure it started life as a 912... but IMO building this car is not all that different from building a killer 914 on one of these bodies.

[SirAndy]

BTW - isn't "fairly rust free" and a 40 year old 914 tub an oxymoron!!?? (IMG:style_emoticons/default/poke.gif) (IMG:style_emoticons/default/laugh.gif)

Not at all. And i have the pictures to prove it. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/shades.gif)

In particular, there was a 914 tub that we couldn't give away for *free*. As in, no money at all. FREE.

We ended up cutting it for scrap. It had a perfect hell hole. No rust what-so-ever. The inside of the longs looked like new. So did the floor-pans.

There were NO takers at FREE. Maybe we should have asked $15k for it?
(IMG:style_emoticons/default/screwy.gif)

[Tom_T]

Good point Ken, as a rebodied 914 resto would probably put it in the conversion/resto-mod category, and be priced accordingly - as opposed to pristine survivors or original numbers matching restos.

That is why I made the distinction above that restoring your own 914 body as is would be an original - even if extensive resto work done, whereas the old tub or new shell is a resto-mod/conversion/franken-car in either case.

Same issues with a drivetrain transplant - which is what I initially planned on doing back in the 80s after my 73 2L was hit in 85 after a 80-83 rolling resto & full drivetrain/suspension overhaul.

Andy - in my area of SoCal - in my case I have both rust & accident damage issues, and several shops have quoted me $15-20k to fix my 73 2L, including McMark in your area, Hans L (#2 914-6) in Camarillo, and a few others. So a clean $8k 914 body-in-white made some sense if they were still available, since either way the 914 has to be stripped to shell, blasted to bare metal & rust-proofed/primed/painted - or do it with a new shell - & either one rebuilt back up again.

The question is registration/VIN & long term value with a rust proofed "new shell" vs. a nearly equal or more amount to repair the original body which will eventually rust again but still be a numbers matching original.

In my case, I really just want to resto my old gal 914 (good memories from the 10 years as my DD & only car), & get her back on the road again to enjoy driving her, & maybe even show a couple of times before she gets too dirty (IMG:style_emoticons/default/biggrin.gif)

I'm not looking to make a second career/hobby of restoring 914s or anything, cuz after 45+ years of working on my/family cars to keep them going - I just want to enjoy my coming retirement driving & doing! (IMG:style_emoticons/default/biggrin.gif)

Now at this point...... (IMG:style_emoticons/default/idea.gif) ...... if I saw a pristine all original 73-74 914-2.0 with AG & PG & maybe AC in a Metallic Blue with Tan interior, then I might switch gears & just buy it & can the resto idea!
(IMG:style_emoticons/default/wub.gif) Luv nice blues!

[Chris Pincetich]

There were NO takers at FREE. Maybe we should have asked $15k for it?
(IMG:style_emoticons/default/screwy.gif)

Actually, there is logic to that
"you get what you pay for"
(IMG:style_emoticons/default/happy11.gif)

[zymurgist]

There were NO takers at FREE. Maybe we should have asked $15k for it?
(IMG:style_emoticons/default/screwy.gif)

The people who would most want the car live 2000+ miles away. Logistics are a bitch sometimes.

[Rob-O]

In Andy's case, besides the 2000 miles, you're also missing probably the most important factor, marketing. In your case Andy it's just you with limited marketing and it was 'one' shell that got cut up.

Time also comes into play. A company builds marketing momentum over time as their product and name is in field. One shell is a blip and then gone.

Much of marketing and selling has to do with ownership, and in our U.S. society, how quickly you can get your hands on something and own it. Take for example cars. When my parents bought cars, they had to wait weeks, even months to get their car. Now? You can decide you want a car tomorrow morning and be driving it later that day.

Now for Scotty and/or McMark I have a suggestion, and I'm not being a smart ass with this. You may be able to make a profit on a 914 shell, I don't know how much work you need to put into each one and how much you could sell it for. But for many 914 owners, the shell is the major stumbling block. Take a risk, buy a few shells and rebuild them to perfection. Get them in primer. Maybe one narrow and one flared in your inventory. When that one sells, get another into inventory as quickly as you can. Soon you'll be known as the guy that always has a 'perfect' shell to sell that you can get to your customer immediately. Think about it, you guys are already masters at rebuilding the 914 body, so you'd know what to look for when purchasing bodies that you want to rebuild. You'd know what's going to be tough and affect your margin and which ones will be able to give you a larger margin.

I know that's a tall order because of the other work that keeps you both in business, and would be a fairly large risk. But you hear what people want right here in this post, and you both could deliver.

It's all about marketing and timing...

[scotty b]

Rob, I've actually thought about that. I think Evil and I even discusssed transporting several west coast shells back east. I could never make an east coast car a solid roller and make a profit on it. When I was out in Wyoming I couldn't believe the Am Iron sitting EVERYWHERE with very little rust on them. Junk yards with cars that looked like they should be on the road. One of these days I want to take a car hauler out west and clean up (IMG:style_emoticons/default/evilgrin.gif)

[Rob-O]

Lots of rust free here in Texas too. I grew up in Detroit, so I know all about rust. Now in Texas and I drool every time I pass by a 'junk' yard. I see 40's and 50's rides with original paint and light surface rust on hoods, roofs, trunks.

So now you'd have to have a truck, trailer and invest even more time and money into just getting shells that you'd have to still do a lot of fab work on. There goes even more margin...

If you ever get the itch to pick up some shells (not just 914) let me know. I used to get the word out to car-nut friends back in Detroit about things I saw on my way to work, out on a Sunday drive, etc. If you find the time in your schedule to make it down, I'd put you up for a few days while you root around the local countryside looking for gems.

[rohar]

Rob, I've actually thought about that. I think Evil and I even discusssed transporting several west coast shells back east. I could never make an east coast car a solid roller and make a profit on it. When I was out in Wyoming I couldn't believe the Am Iron sitting EVERYWHERE with very little rust on them. Junk yards with cars that looked like they should be on the road. One of these days I want to take a car hauler out west and clean up (IMG:style_emoticons/default/evilgrin.gif)

If you ever get serious, gimme a holler. Have a diesel and it's been too long since I've been back east.

[mepstein]

In Andy's case, besides the 2000 miles, you're also missing probably the most important factor, marketing. In your case Andy it's just you with limited marketing and it was 'one' shell that got cut up.

Time also comes into play. A company builds marketing momentum over time as their product and name is in field. One shell is a blip and then gone.

Much of marketing and selling has to do with ownership, and in our U.S. society, how quickly you can get your hands on something and own it. Take for example cars. When my parents bought cars, they had to wait weeks, even months to get their car. Now? You can decide you want a car tomorrow morning and be driving it later that day.

Now for Scotty and/or McMark I have a suggestion, and I'm not being a smart ass with this. You may be able to make a profit on a 914 shell, I don't know how much work you need to put into each one and how much you could sell it for. But for many 914 owners, the shell is the major stumbling block. Take a risk, buy a few shells and rebuild them to perfection. Get them in primer. Maybe one narrow and one flared in your inventory. When that one sells, get another into inventory as quickly as you can. Soon you'll be known as the guy that always has a 'perfect' shell to sell that you can get to your customer immediately. Think about it, you guys are already masters at rebuilding the 914 body, so you'd know what to look for when purchasing bodies that you want to rebuild. You'd know what's going to be tough and affect your margin and which ones will be able to give you a larger margin.

I know that's a tall order because of the other work that keeps you both in business, and would be a fairly large risk. But you hear what people want right here in this post, and you both could deliver.

It's all about marketing and timing...

I think it would be a huge risk to buy, ship, repair, sell and then pay taxes. Scott lists a price of $8K for a rust free roller in primer and you will see a bunch of posts about how someone could get the same thing for 2K. It would be a great service and god knows it would have cost me less money to start with a better car but this conversation has been going on for years and history shows that it's not what the marketplace wants. The first poster is a good example. He is in CA and has plans to dump $20K+++ into rust repair on his restoration rather than buy a complete concours car for the same price.

[mepstein]

> C : X number of buyers willing to front the money ( X $$) To put this into production

> Are you willing to find 100 people willing put up 15,000.00 + to get this thing rolling Tom ?

I wonder how the British Motor Heritage was able to build MGB and TR6 bodies? (Not sure they still do.)

I think in most cases these groups are getting the original dies & spaming equipment form the OEM/factory, then setting up shop on a limited basis.

There were a lot of Mustangs, Camaros, MGs, etc. in comparison to 356s, 911s/912s (early) & 914s AFAIK, so they're market is broader.

Plus Porsche had Toyota come & advise them on improving their manufacturing a few years back, and Toyota told the they should concentrate on being a new car mfgr. - not a used car replacement parts supplier/mfgr. & told them to liquidate their stock of parts asap to free up factory space, which Porsche did diligently.

Porsche also had the habit of destroying excess parts inventory at their distributors warehouses here in the USA (& maybe/probably elsewhere too) since the 1950s & 60s, which is how that renegade 356 guy now up in OR got his NOS parts stash & business started.

So IMHO - in a sense Porsche shot themselves in the foot, since a marque like Porsche should be supporting & helping to maintain their historical fleet, as well as their new cars, because their supposed to be selling high quality & low volume (relatively speaking) production of exclusive cars.
(IMG:style_emoticons/default/dry.gif)

Not so. There was an epsiode of one of those shows I desise on Speed last year where they built a IIRC a Camaro from all new parts including a main body shell and they even stated thst there were fitment issues. Had these " new" bodies been built from original dies to there would be no fitment issues. From my end in the rod world, there are several manufacturers of model A bodies and to my know knowledge NONE have the original dies, but all have been reproduced form factory blueprints

I thought they were scanning the parts and reproducing them in China.

[Tom_T]

.... The first poster is a good example. He is in CA and has plans to dump $20K+++ into rust repair on his restoration rather than buy a complete concours car for the same price.

Actually Mark -

As that guy in the first post, I'd much prefer to NOT spend $20k+++ nor anything close, and the last price I saw for a 914 body-in-white was $8k - half the $15k everyone is presuming here based on the Mustang body.

At $8k vs. $15-20k in body & paint for either, not a hard choice if the body were available at the price I stated in a prior post. I'd like to find some way to do the repairs & resto of mine for less than that $20k. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/dry.gif)

If I do spend to restore my 73 2L, then I can justify it somewhat in my own warped mind, as deferred maintenance back to 1985 when she went in my garage 26 years ago.....just divide the total cost by 26 or whatever! (IMG:style_emoticons/default/biggrin.gif)

As I said in an earlier post - I would also probably jump ship on my 73 914-2.0's resto, IF I found a CW pristine 73 or 74 914-2.0 with the Appearance & Performance Group in Marathon or Alaska Metallic Blue with Tan interior concours, and a DPD original dealer AC would be nice too in SoCal - in pristine condition. I could also possibly be led astray by a couple of other colors coupled with tan interior & the above......

BUT, I've not seen anything close to pristine concours car in any color I like, and I've looked at several since 09! (IMG:style_emoticons/default/sad.gif)

Since I really only want to get ONE 914-2.0 restored & on the road, the cost for whichever way I go, is probably going to be less or the same as some of the serial offenders out there are pouring into multiple 914s, conversions to 6, 8, subie-doo, etc. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/poke.gif) (IMG:style_emoticons/default/biggrin.gif)

For me - it's either find a 73-74 914-2.0 in the colors & options that I would've bought if I could've afforded a new one back in 1972-73 (which I couldn't working my way through college); or else restore the faithful old gal that was my one & only car for a decade Dec. 75 to May 85, as MY 914 has fond memories for me.

[billh1963]

.... The first poster is a good example. He is in CA and has plans to dump $20K+++ into rust repair on his restoration rather than buy a complete concours car for the same price.

Actually Mark -

As that guy in the first post, I'd much prefer to NOT spend $20k+++ nor anything close, and the last price I saw for a 914 body-in-white was $8k - half the $15k everyone is presuming here based on the Mustang body.

At $8k vs. $15-20k in body & paint for either, not a hard choice if the body were available at the price I stated in a prior post. I'd like to find some way to do the repairs & resto of mine for less than that $20k. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/dry.gif)

If I do spend to restore my 73 2L, then I can justify it somewhat in my own warped mind, as deferred maintenance back to 1985 when she went in my garage 26 years ago.....just divide the total cost by 26 or whatever! (IMG:style_emoticons/default/biggrin.gif)

As I said in an earlier post - I would also probably jump ship on my 73 914-2.0's resto, IF I found a CW pristine 73 or 74 914-2.0 with the Appearance & Performance Group in Marathon or Alaska Metallic Blue with Tan interior concours, and a DPD original dealer AC would be nice too in SoCal - in pristine condition. I could also possibly be led astray by a couple of other colors coupled with tan interior & the above......

BUT, I've not seen anything close to pristine concours car in any color I like, and I've looked at several since 09! (IMG:style_emoticons/default/sad.gif)

Since I really only want to get ONE 914-2.0 restored & on the road, the cost for whichever way I go, is probably going to be less or the same as some of the serial offenders out there are pouring into multiple 914s, conversions to 6, 8, subie-doo, etc. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/poke.gif) (IMG:style_emoticons/default/biggrin.gif)

For me - it's either find a 73-74 914-2.0 in the colors & options that I would've bought if I could've afforded a new one back in 1972-73 (which I couldn't working my way through college); or else restore the faithful old gal that was my one & only car for a decade Dec. 75 to May 85, as MY 914 has fond memories for me.

I agree with your thoughts on this. AT $20K it's not going to happen with me. However, sub $10K and you have my attention. Since it looks like quality rust repair can run several thousand dollars (and you are only fixing it in one area and waiting for it to to crop up in other areas), $10K or less for a new body in white with higher quality galvanized metal, design changes to adress known issues, etc. would be very appealing. If you spend the money once there is no reason the car could not last for decades to come.

[SirAndy]

and the last price I saw for a 914 body-in-white was $8k

And how long ago was that?

The factory 914 bodies in white were made in the 70s when they still had the tooling. Do you have any idea of the kind of investment that would be needed to recreate all the tooling to make a complete new shell?

$8k??? (IMG:style_emoticons/default/screwy.gif)