Like the title says......

http://www.autoweek.com/article/20111220/C...gn=awdailydrive

$15-$16K - ouch : )

reminder to self - check couch cushions for lots of change : )

though a stamping to make a coupe into a fastback might be cool?

Yeah, you can buy the body of a 1st and 2nd generation Camaro. I think you can even buy 50's to 70's Chevy truck bodies as well.

IIRC they have or will have both Coupe & FB as well.

$15-16k is better than $20+k in extensive bodywork in many cases, so I'm sure that's what they're shooting for.

Porsche used to sell the 914 "body in white" for $7-8k when they were still available in NOS parts warehouses.

Oh well!

Pretty cool!

Nearly complete MGs and Jags too - in parts at least.

They have some pretty neat full body replacements going on:
http://www.dynacorn.com/catalog.html

Seems expensive...except if you have a case like a 'gentleman' (in quotes since there's no font for sarcasm) who has a REAL 1968 GT500KR rotting in his front yard several miles from my house.

I've knocked, he's convinced at some point in his short time left he's going to get to it and wont sell...I've checked the VIN, it's real...

Very sad...

BUT a perfect case for a full body resto, worth tons of money done!

Any documented cases of rebodied cars using these "spare parts"?

S

Its my understanding that when you build a car from one of these prefab bodies, it gets a special name (at least in California). In other words it will be a 2011 something or other. I dont think it is titled as a Camaro for example if that is hte body you built the car from.

What gets me is there are quite a few shops on here who could ship you a 'restored' chassis for half that (or less). Nobody has ever called me and said, "How much for a repaired/GT flared chassis?"

Having a brand new chassis available is novel and interesting, but there is zero market for it.

I feel like I'm being too negative.

Skip & SBC -

I think in both cases if the replacement body is done as an accident repair with the original car's parts/drivetrain by an authorized body shop, that the original VIN got transferred to it. Rick Perkins who used to work for local P+A dealers, said there were a few 914s & 911s done that way back in the day (now he's a PCNA Regional Service Mgr.). I've also heard that from others in other states. It was usually done when the accident damage exceeded to cost of a body shell.

Due to seller fraud concerns, they've gone to salvage titles for such extensive damage & where whole portions of 2 cars are joined (something beyond just a clip) - so they may require a new body shell swap to be under a salvage title.

CA & most states also use salvage title when the cost to repair exceeds the then current pre-accident/disaster damage value of the vehicle.

....that sounds like 99% of the builds & restos on here & pretty much anywhere!

SBC - I think you're talking about a franken-build or hot rod, where there isn't a complete Camaro or whatever to start with when using the body shells - as in the extensive repairs noted above.

Skip - the title research on a particular car - 914 or otherwise - may show such a body shell replacement & re-tagging with the old VIN, but I can't say how closely it was followed back in the 70's & 80's for 914s & other cars/makes.

If Porsche still had a NOS body shell, drivetrain & all the parts - it would be interesting to have them build a "new" 914-6 for the 914's 50th birthday!




They should do the USA version though, so it has Porsche badging!

It's a simple supply vs. demand issue. In order to have this happen someone in the know would have to have

A : the machine do do the work

B: the stamping dies to start out with

C : X number of buyers willing to front the money ( X $$) To put this into production

Are you willing to find 100 people willing put up 15,000.00 + to get this thing rolling Tom ?

If there were the demnd , you would see 356 and 911 bodies being stamped new right now.

Well you sure know how to put a damper on someones Santa Wish List Scotty!

> C : X number of buyers willing to front the money ( X $$) To put this into production

> Are you willing to find 100 people willing put up 15,000.00 + to get this thing rolling Tom ?

I wonder how the British Motor Heritage was able to build MGB and TR6 bodies? (Not sure they still do.)

Not trying to put a damper on any ones list but business is business. I'm aJeep guy on the side. I found a NICE unrusted tub in the local junk yard yesterday for 1000.00. I fussed about the guy wanting that much, but the fact is NEW ones sell for 3000.00 + depending on steel or aluminum. At 1000.00 this one is a GREAT deal, I just don't have that right now so my CJ sits.


When we have the money to spare it's a steal, whe we don't, we bitch that we're being gouged. We don't think about the other guys business. In the end it's all very selfish.........

I think in most cases these groups are getting the original dies & spaming equipment form the OEM/factory, then setting up shop on a limited basis.

There were a lot of Mustangs, Camaros, MGs, etc. in comparison to 356s, 911s/912s (early) & 914s AFAIK, so they're market is broader.

Plus Porsche had Toyota come & advise them on improving their manufacturing a few years back, and Toyota told the they should concentrate on being a new car mfgr. - not a used car replacement parts supplier/mfgr. & told them to liquidate their stock of parts asap to free up factory space, which Porsche did diligently.

Porsche also had the habit of destroying excess parts inventory at their distributors warehouses here in the USA (& maybe/probably elsewhere too) since the 1950s & 60s, which is how that renegade 356 guy now up in OR got his NOS parts stash & business started.

So IMHO - in a sense Porsche shot themselves in the foot, since a marque like Porsche should be supporting & helping to maintain their historical fleet, as well as their new cars, because their supposed to be selling high quality & low volume (relatively speaking) production of exclusive cars.

Not so. There was an epsiode of one of those shows I desise on Speed last year where they built a IIRC a Camaro from all new parts including a main body shell and they even stated thst there were fitment issues. Had these " new" bodies been built from original dies to there would be no fitment issues. From my end in the rod world, there are several manufacturers of model A bodies and to my know knowledge NONE have the original dies, but all have been reproduced form factory blueprints

Scotty -

IIRC the MGA parts were from original dies from one of the body groups, and I thought that this Mustang group got the shell dies from Ford. I could be wrong, but I'm pretty sure I've read that some factory dies/gear have transferred hands.

I know for a fact that both the Studebaker Avanti dies/gear are owned by mfgrs. of "new" build cars today; as are the MGBs - which were to start production in the mid-2000's in Oklahoma at a Chickasaw Tribe owned industrial park (but I think that business hit a snag and went on hold - no idea who owns the dies/gear now).

Speed could've used parts from non-original dies &/or there could've been poor QC in their manufacture, which also happened at the factories of any new car mfgr.

If THIS GUY can't even sell his tub for $300 you really think anyone here would fork out $15k for a new shell?

I know a guy who has a complete 911 long hood in this ball park. It's not quite rust free though...

.....hmmmm, buy a $300 - 1000+ 40 year old rusty tub & put another $15-20k into de-rusting it with known 1970s steel & rust issues......

..... vs. $8 - 15k for a pristine new shell of modern mettalurgical more rust resistant & stronger steel with hot dip zinc rust-proofing that you shoot your paint color for another $5k in at about the same end total....

.... & then fit it out either shell with the rest of your 914's parts.....

..... assuming - shell for shell - that all other than the shell/paint & body costs are the same for drivetrain, interior, etc. for either approach?

YUP - for a body that is pristine & won't rust in my lifetime & probably not my son's either - you betcha!

They are two completely different approaches Andy, Mark, Scotty, et al -
.... one gets you a resto that probably won't rust but is not the original body,
.... while the other is the original body & car but is guaranteed to eventually rust again!

Each approach is valid, and neither puts the body guys out of business, but rather changes their work order.

If Porsche still had an $8k "body in white" available, then I'd have bought it & might be on the road by now - work, other cars, honey-do list, etc. permitting!

I'm not sure where you live, but around here you can repair a fairly rust free 40 year old tub to pristine conditions for a *lot* less than $15k.


Talking about how cool a brand new "body in white" 914 would be is one thing, actually putting money on the table when it's time to pay up is a completely different story.

It took a while to get the first flare group buy rolling, and that was only $600. Pocket change compared with a whole body.

I agree $15K for a new body sounds like a lot. But if the values on all 914 would jump by say +$10K in the next ten years even, that idea would probably peak alot of interest. The Mustangs/Camaros/GMC truck values have steadily been climbing for the last ten years. So $15K for a new totally rust free body would be a great buy for them.

My Southwest Visa is/was ready at hand for an instant transaction, and in fact earlier this year I had a parts guy look through the entire Porsche system for one of their NOS ones!

So keep eating your popcorn & let me know if you really hear of one available!

EDIT -
BTW - isn't "fairly rust free" and a 40 year old 914 tub an oxymoron!!??
... if only George Carlin were around today, he could probably do a whole bit on 914s & 1960s - 70s cars, restos, rust & the insanity!

That's assuming a lot, and betting on what the economy is going to do in the next 10 years. Here's a 911 that is a lot nicer than mine that didn't even hit the reserve on ebay.

1969 911 2.7RS Clone

Sure it started life as a 912... but IMO building this car is not all that different from building a killer 914 on one of these bodies.

Not at all. And i have the pictures to prove it.

In particular, there was a 914 tub that we couldn't give away for *free*. As in, no money at all. FREE.

We ended up cutting it for scrap. It had a perfect hell hole. No rust what-so-ever. The inside of the longs looked like new. So did the floor-pans.

There were NO takers at FREE. Maybe we should have asked $15k for it?

Good point Ken, as a rebodied 914 resto would probably put it in the conversion/resto-mod category, and be priced accordingly - as opposed to pristine survivors or original numbers matching restos.

That is why I made the distinction above that restoring your own 914 body as is would be an original - even if extensive resto work done, whereas the old tub or new shell is a resto-mod/conversion/franken-car in either case.

Same issues with a drivetrain transplant - which is what I initially planned on doing back in the 80s after my 73 2L was hit in 85 after a 80-83 rolling resto & full drivetrain/suspension overhaul.

Andy - in my area of SoCal - in my case I have both rust & accident damage issues, and several shops have quoted me $15-20k to fix my 73 2L, including McMark in your area, Hans L (#2 914-6) in Camarillo, and a few others. So a clean $8k 914 body-in-white made some sense if they were still available, since either way the 914 has to be stripped to shell, blasted to bare metal & rust-proofed/primed/painted - or do it with a new shell - & either one rebuilt back up again.

The question is registration/VIN & long term value with a rust proofed "new shell" vs. a nearly equal or more amount to repair the original body which will eventually rust again but still be a numbers matching original.

In my case, I really just want to resto my old gal 914 (good memories from the 10 years as my DD & only car), & get her back on the road again to enjoy driving her, & maybe even show a couple of times before she gets too dirty

I'm not looking to make a second career/hobby of restoring 914s or anything, cuz after 45+ years of working on my/family cars to keep them going - I just want to enjoy my coming retirement driving & doing!

Now at this point...... ...... if I saw a pristine all original 73-74 914-2.0 with AG & PG & maybe AC in a Metallic Blue with Tan interior, then I might switch gears & just buy it & can the resto idea!
Luv nice blues!

Actually, there is logic to that
"you get what you pay for"

The people who would most want the car live 2000+ miles away. Logistics are a bitch sometimes.

In Andy's case, besides the 2000 miles, you're also missing probably the most important factor, marketing. In your case Andy it's just you with limited marketing and it was 'one' shell that got cut up.

Time also comes into play. A company builds marketing momentum over time as their product and name is in field. One shell is a blip and then gone.

Much of marketing and selling has to do with ownership, and in our U.S. society, how quickly you can get your hands on something and own it. Take for example cars. When my parents bought cars, they had to wait weeks, even months to get their car. Now? You can decide you want a car tomorrow morning and be driving it later that day.

Now for Scotty and/or McMark I have a suggestion, and I'm not being a smart ass with this. You may be able to make a profit on a 914 shell, I don't know how much work you need to put into each one and how much you could sell it for. But for many 914 owners, the shell is the major stumbling block. Take a risk, buy a few shells and rebuild them to perfection. Get them in primer. Maybe one narrow and one flared in your inventory. When that one sells, get another into inventory as quickly as you can. Soon you'll be known as the guy that always has a 'perfect' shell to sell that you can get to your customer immediately. Think about it, you guys are already masters at rebuilding the 914 body, so you'd know what to look for when purchasing bodies that you want to rebuild. You'd know what's going to be tough and affect your margin and which ones will be able to give you a larger margin.

I know that's a tall order because of the other work that keeps you both in business, and would be a fairly large risk. But you hear what people want right here in this post, and you both could deliver.

It's all about marketing and timing...

Rob, I've actually thought about that. I think Evil and I even discusssed transporting several west coast shells back east. I could never make an east coast car a solid roller and make a profit on it. When I was out in Wyoming I couldn't believe the Am Iron sitting EVERYWHERE with very little rust on them. Junk yards with cars that looked like they should be on the road. One of these days I want to take a car hauler out west and clean up

Lots of rust free here in Texas too. I grew up in Detroit, so I know all about rust. Now in Texas and I drool every time I pass by a 'junk' yard. I see 40's and 50's rides with original paint and light surface rust on hoods, roofs, trunks.

So now you'd have to have a truck, trailer and invest even more time and money into just getting shells that you'd have to still do a lot of fab work on. There goes even more margin...

If you ever get the itch to pick up some shells (not just 914) let me know. I used to get the word out to car-nut friends back in Detroit about things I saw on my way to work, out on a Sunday drive, etc. If you find the time in your schedule to make it down, I'd put you up for a few days while you root around the local countryside looking for gems.

If you ever get serious, gimme a holler. Have a diesel and it's been too long since I've been back east.

I think it would be a huge risk to buy, ship, repair, sell and then pay taxes. Scott lists a price of $8K for a rust free roller in primer and you will see a bunch of posts about how someone could get the same thing for 2K. It would be a great service and god knows it would have cost me less money to start with a better car but this conversation has been going on for years and history shows that it's not what the marketplace wants. The first poster is a good example. He is in CA and has plans to dump $20K+++ into rust repair on his restoration rather than buy a complete concours car for the same price.

I thought they were scanning the parts and reproducing them in China.

Actually Mark -

As that guy in the first post, I'd much prefer to NOT spend $20k+++ nor anything close, and the last price I saw for a 914 body-in-white was $8k - half the $15k everyone is presuming here based on the Mustang body.

At $8k vs. $15-20k in body & paint for either, not a hard choice if the body were available at the price I stated in a prior post. I'd like to find some way to do the repairs & resto of mine for less than that $20k.

If I do spend to restore my 73 2L, then I can justify it somewhat in my own warped mind, as deferred maintenance back to 1985 when she went in my garage 26 years ago.....just divide the total cost by 26 or whatever!

As I said in an earlier post - I would also probably jump ship on my 73 914-2.0's resto, IF I found a CW pristine 73 or 74 914-2.0 with the Appearance & Performance Group in Marathon or Alaska Metallic Blue with Tan interior concours, and a DPD original dealer AC would be nice too in SoCal - in pristine condition. I could also possibly be led astray by a couple of other colors coupled with tan interior & the above......

BUT, I've not seen anything close to pristine concours car in any color I like, and I've looked at several since 09!

Since I really only want to get ONE 914-2.0 restored & on the road, the cost for whichever way I go, is probably going to be less or the same as some of the serial offenders out there are pouring into multiple 914s, conversions to 6, 8, subie-doo, etc.

For me - it's either find a 73-74 914-2.0 in the colors & options that I would've bought if I could've afforded a new one back in 1972-73 (which I couldn't working my way through college); or else restore the faithful old gal that was my one & only car for a decade Dec. 75 to May 85, as MY 914 has fond memories for me.

I agree with your thoughts on this. AT $20K it's not going to happen with me. However, sub $10K and you have my attention. Since it looks like quality rust repair can run several thousand dollars (and you are only fixing it in one area and waiting for it to to crop up in other areas), $10K or less for a new body in white with higher quality galvanized metal, design changes to adress known issues, etc. would be very appealing. If you spend the money once there is no reason the car could not last for decades to come.

And how long ago was that?

The factory 914 bodies in white were made in the 70s when they still had the tooling. Do you have any idea of the kind of investment that would be needed to recreate all the tooling to make a complete new shell?

$8k???

No Andy.......$8k WAS the ACTUAL last price from the PORSCHE dealer with whom I was sourcing parts, as shown on THEIR retail price list as of 2010! Had one still been in stock then last year - THAT WAS THE PRICE!

And if the tooling is still available from the factory, then they don't need o be recreated, and usually body tooling is good for 10 years & 500k - 1 mm stampings - IIRC from my auto design/engineering studies in the early 1970s.

So with only <114k 914's built, they'd have some life in them still - IF they're still around - for either Porsche to produce or another aftermarket maker.

No.... I haven't run any numbers to see what the cost, production budget, break even price, etc. would be for making them.

I was simply posting a "Gee I wish...." thing here, and you've jumped in on here 4 times - 3x with your: .... so just lighten up!

Note the poke & smiley before the peanut gallery jumps on me....

THAT WAS MY POINT!

The factory "body in white" have been NLA for over 20 years now!

IT DOES NOT MATTER WHAT THE DEALER PRICE IS LISTED AT, SINCE THEY HAVE BEEN NLA FOR 20+ YEARS.

Jesus, what's with all the yelling?

Seriously, the price that the dealers list is from 20+ years ago when they were still available. That price means nothing in today's market.

Nothing ...

OK, How much for that repaired/GT flared chassis?


"If you ever get serious, gimme a holler. Have a diesel and it's been too long since I've been back east."

what would it cost you to drive to the east Rohar?

I would be all over NC Colfax's shell if it was on my end of the country still.

Nope - last one was sold in `08 according to what the dealer parts guy told me early this year (2011).

So you can argue that with him, as I'm going by what he said, and that the parts prices are dropped from the price lists as sold out, but not necessarily from the PET parts catalog, since the latter serves as a reference.

I can count that on one hand 4 years back, without using my feet - so not 20+ years ago.

Maybe not using the "screwball smiley" all the time would help when you talk to folks on line??

PS - my all caps words were for emphasis, not "yelling." I'm old & write online the way I learned to write on other text documents & on paper, which does not denote "yelling". Just so you know that I wasn't "yelling" at you.

... and see, all this talk about new body shells, has sparked some matchmaking for some used shells too!

Your parts guy needs to lay off the crack.

Unless someone can come up with any sort of proof that there was a factory Porsche body in white 914 sold by the factory in 2008, i call BS on that one.

They were still listed in the Porsche parts list (and probably still are) when i got into 914s some 12 years ago.
They had been NLA for a long time already back then.

Like i said, unless you can come up with more than "some dude told someone that somebody somewhere bought one", it didn't happen.

Well. If our friend says that tooling would be good for 500,000 inpressions. That may be why the factory phased out the 914. That's about the number of total cars produced (if I recall correctly). As for factory reproduction of the tooling to make these, I don't think we will ever see it. Honestly, the best bet is to support our vendors like Design Restoration. They have been making these parts one at a time. It may take awhile, but it is more probable.

Part number 91450100311! I called a dealer though, no such luck.

According to inflation...

What cost $8000 in 1980 would cost $20888.76 in 2010.

Not to mention that the 914 body is the last car in the world that Porsche would ever reproduce. I bet the molds were recycled a day after the last 914 body was made. Thank goodness for the guys at restoration design!