Aftermarket vendor called me stupid...what do you think? Options

[Type 47]

OK not actually but pratically called me stupid...and maybe I am, hence this thread and my willingness to be more open minded.

Call vendor (we'll just call them vendor A) and ask opinon regarding restoration, engine rebuild, bodywork, suspension, etc.

I tell him I have a 75' 2L, with a clock showing 62K but has a broken speedo cable, the previous owner put dual webers on w/o changing cam, and I want to back date the bumpers to 70-73 bumpers and rebuild the engine with a carb cam.

He said I would be crazy to not put the fuel injection back on and keep it stock as possible and NOT back date the bumpers. He didn't even want me to repaint it if I could deal with the two small dents I have in the p door and the d side front fender.

Said I shouldn't crack open the engine with only 62k miles...he didn't even want the engine to come out to the car actually.

I say I can keep all the stuff and put it back some day. He said I would end up with big holes in the trunks from cutting the bumper stuff off.

What's everyone else think?

[kconway]

It's your car, do with it what you will. Obviously you don't care about originality or I should say care about showing it as an original car. That vendor was actually NOT trying to take your money so it sounds like he's at the very least isn't trying to sell you something. He sounds reasonable to me but I wouldn't call your stupid for wanting to modify YOUR car the way you see fit.

[windforfun]

Opinions are only opinions.

[billh1963]

I think he is just telling you that with all original cars becoming harder to find, you should keep it original to preserve your investment. Of course, it's your car... do as you wish.

[Type 47]

It's your car, do with it what you will. Obviously you don't care about originality or I should say care about showing it as an original car. That vendor was actually NOT trying to take your money so it sounds like he's at the very least isn't trying to sell you something. He sounds reasonable to me but I wouldn't call your stupid for wanting to modify YOUR car the way you see fit.

Maybe stupid is a little strong...but I might not be wise to modify it...that's why I'm asking opionons.

The vendor A was upfront and said they would tell me what to do even if I didn't like it...and they weren't trying to up sell me...I already had my cart foll of goodies that I would not need.

The biggest issue, here is where stupid comes in, is that they said I would be ruining the value of the car (especially if I cut the bumpers off). A low mile 75', original with only one repaint would be about $19,500. If i did what I wanted, even with a killer paint job would be half that at best.

I know $19.5k is a little optimistic but I don't want to do the wrong thing and be sorry later

[brant]

it actually sounds like he is giving you good advice from a car as an investment perspective... All of his recommendations are expert sound recommendations to give to a customer


however its your car
do as you please.

[Type 47]

it actually sounds like he is giving you good advice from a car as an investment perspective... All of his recommendations are expert sound recommendations to give to a customer


however its your car
do as you please.

That's what I'm afraid of...I'm so in denial

I really wantied to back date the ugly fed bumpers.

[brant]

back date them if you want to
I say do what you want.....

its not stupid to build it the way you like it.

[carr914]

As far as the Dents & Paint - you should look into a Paintless Dent-Removal Company, they can work wonders.

As far as Vendor A, it sounds like something that would come from the mouth of Vendor AA ( he's watching this Thread at this very Moment) (IMG:style_emoticons/default/biggrin.gif)

[ConeDodger]

Sound advice really... If your mileage is even close to reality you have a low mileage car. Not painting it, simply doing paintless dent repair to correct the cosmetics makes it a 'preservation' car. Excellent preservation cars are more valuable than excellent restoration cars in a lot of minds.

You have very little you need to do to put it back to stock. I see his point. However, you must also consider that if you have a vision for the car, you should start with the best example you can find. By taking a low-mileage preservation car out of the equation, you make the other ones more valuable and you get the car you want.

By the way, there is nothing you want to do that you shouldn't attempt yourself...

[struckn]

back date them if you want to
I say do what you want.....

its not stupid to build it the way you like it.

I agree do what you want, There are two classes in the car hobby, Total Originality like it was the day it left the dealer show room and then there is the custom modifiers that up date, change things and create something unique to their own liking. I have no problem with either group. I would say most of the cars owned in this forum group are not show room stock and the nicest ones have been converted to six's with flares. I would love to go in that direction some day, but that's just me.

[jimkelly]

these cars are worth less than it costs to buy one and restore it.

most cars are worth less than it costs to buy one and restore it.

that said - a near mint car should not be used for a conversion - IMHO.

jim

[markb]

it actually sounds like he is giving you good advice from a car as an investment perspective... All of his recommendations are expert sound recommendations to give to a customer


however its your car
do as you please.

(IMG:style_emoticons/default/agree.gif)

[bigkensteele]

I am straddling both sides of the same fence. I have a a really nice '75 1.8, albeit with 130k, but in VERY good original condition. It needs a little rust work and paint to be a great survivor car. I also have a set of flares, early bumpers, everything to convert to 5 lugs, including 8 Fuchs. Given that '75 1.8s are probably the least valuable 914, I am very tempted to do all of the above. However, I tracked down the original owner about a week ago and called him up. He told me a bunch of great stories about how it was his first car, how be bought it while he was a cadet at the Air Force Academy and kept if for years as he was stationed all around the country and finally sold it in the early '90s because he didn't have room for it and didn't want to see it rust away in his driveway in MN. Kinda makes me want to preserve it and find another car to mod.

[Tom_T]

First..... (IMG:style_emoticons/default/welcome.png)

Pro's & Con's to what you want to do....but it's your car & your checkbook!

I think that his/her input was based upon it ostensibly being a pristine very low mileage survivor in original paint (if it indeed has never been repainted), which are very few & far between nowadays, and command a price/value premium in the marketplace. At 36-37 years old, that's only an average of about 1700 miles/yr - or long period(s0 time just sitting undriven!

However, before you take the "low mile survivor" route too far, you first need to be able to document from the service records/etc. back to day one `75 (or Fall 74) when first sold, that the odometer hasn't turned-over nor been reset. Unfortunately with P-cars from that era, the 5 digit odometer "lies" because you generally cannot tell whether a car has gone 99,999 or less - or if it's been 100k, 200k, 300k or more (less than average 15k/yr - say at even 2/3's of 10k/yr would be 360-370k now on a 75).

So first research your records that you got with the 914 if a new purchase, or that you've hopefully saved if you bought it new, and try to determine if it's really a 62k mile car, and also look at wear on things like gas pedal, carpets & seats, etc. to see if it LOOKS like it's really a low mileage car - &/or if it has had the interior redone, gas pedal changed for a new one, etc. - or has excessive wear.

I've looked at several other 73-74 914-2.0s over the past 1-2 years as a more cost effective alternative to restoring/repairing my 73 2L, and most were not truly at the stated mileage by condition alone, nor could they be documented. They're just few & far between & most owners go by what the last owner said when selling - whether mistakenly or intentionally wrong.

Also get a Certificate of Authenticity (COA) from Porsche/PCNA to make sure that it's engine (and transaxle) numbers match what is in the 914 now - vs. what the Porsche "Kardex" build records on microfilm/digiat at PCNA say they are/were. A non-numbers matching car with a swapped engine or rebuilt 2.0 from a 1.8 OE will not be worth as much.

If it's only the dents, then you can get a paintless dent repair shop to repair it by massaging it out (or get the PDR tools & do it yourself), then if it has some chips & scratches you can get those airbrushed by a quality resto shop to match the existing paint.

As for the back-dated bumpers - well you wouldn't do it on a low mile survivor by cutting into the body shell - because you don't want anything non-reversible to sell it for the premium here. Talk to Scarlet75/Andy on here, as he just did his 75 1.8 & I'm pretty sure he didn't cut anything on the body panels to do it. If it's not really a low mileage survivor & you repaint ti, then just do a good job on it & repaint it properly.

As for the EFI - folks usually change them out for a carb system because either they cannot get the EFI to work & don't have the money &/or mechanic with expertise nearby; or else for more power (but a 2056 big bore 2L can still get 110-125+/- HP with the D-jet EFI & "look stock"). Usually it's the "I can't get it to work" reason, but IMHO the EFI is a better set-up & you don't need to screw with sync-ing carbs, which was a major motivator for my buying my 73 914-2.0 in Dec `75! A pristine survivor is more valuable with the original engine & EFI, transaxle, etc. - with replacement & maintenance/rebuilds as necessary & appropriate.

Most CW (Concours Weenie) future buyers of your 75 - if a survivor, would want it to qualify for the PCA's & other concours event sponsors' rules that a preservation or survivor class car have all original parts on them, be unmodified (e.g.: no carbs on a 914), & that 80% of the paint is still original. Otherwise they go up against fully restored cars in another class in most cases.

If you decide to take it back to EFI, then Brad Mayeur in Peoria IL - sorta across the Big Muddy from you - knows 914s well & can surely get it sorted out for you & probably can find the "missing" EFI parts as well.

So if it all checks out as a truly well kept low mileage survivor, then you should probably weigh the options of modifying it, or looking for a less pristine & higher mileage non-survivor 914 to do your hi-performance mods on, and maybe keep it as your show car (then you'd be twin-teener owner! (IMG:style_emoticons/default/biggrin.gif) ); or sell it for better money now to fund the hot-rod-914 project & car you really want.

Of course it's YOUR car & YOUR money - so you can certainly do what YOU want with it either way, but make it a well informed decision, since you could be leaving $1000s in value "on the table" by modifying a true & documented low mileage 914 survivor.

I'm guessing that the "vendor's" enthusiasm about hearing of a low mileage original 914 got the better of him/her (IMG:style_emoticons/default/drooley.gif) (IMG:style_emoticons/default/wub.gif) (IMG:style_emoticons/default/first.gif) - and said something like: "...you'd be crazy to...." - which unfortunately is a symptom of this classic car & 914 crazy disease we all have! (IMG:style_emoticons/default/biggrin.gif)

The Originality & History Forum topics on here can give you guidance on the survivor aspects, while the Garage Forums have the mod stuff.

FYI - this is one of my SoCal area buddy's 71 914/4 1.7L that he's owned since new with <61k miles, still wearing original paint that he had airbrushed in matching Bahia Red paint where it had a few usage chips & a stucco scrape he did on the garage wall - maybe 2-3% overall repainted/touched & perfectly blended, the carpets & upholstery are still all original. The Rosewood dash face, turned aluminum threshold plates, hood badge, & Western Wheels were put on by the original dealer for a buyer who backed out, before my buddy bought it new in `71. He has since replaced the rocker covers, put in new Coco mats, added the combo fuel/temp gauge from a 914-6 & a modern disc player into the glovebox with new speakers in the footwell boxes, rechromed F bumper with the Lic. plate mounting holes welded up - but not much else, and he saved the original stuff.




This is to show you what a comparable age & mileage 914 survivor should look like to have the highest value (the dash, wheels, F bumber, etc. might be removed & changed back to OE by a hard core CW). Hope this helps in your quest for answers.

Good Luck on your Quest! (IMG:style_emoticons/default/beerchug.gif)
Tom
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[Tom]

Here is my take on this; It is your car, do what you would be most happy with. But keeping in mind, iIf you have any idea of selling it some day, think twice about what mods you do, and try to keep all of the original parts for a future owner to convert it back later. It could make a huge difference in the selling price.
Tom

[Steve]

I agree with AA, but I wish them luck in there quest to keep these cars stock. I wanted lots of HP, big brakes etc. I did not want to modify a real 914-6, so i trashed a 75. I put on fiberglass bumpers steel flairs, 3.2, etc... It's funny that they sell the steel flairs, but want us to keep our cars stock. In the past George made the comment to only install flairs or install a body kit if the car is already trashed. I agree with him, but how trashed is trashed?

[Type 47]

As far as the Dents & Paint - you should look into a Paintless Dent-Removal Company, they can work wonders.

As far as Vendor A, it sounds like something that would come from the mouth of Vendor AA ( he's watching this Thread at this very Moment) (IMG:style_emoticons/default/biggrin.gif)

I hope he didn't take offense to my catchy thread title...I really want to get as many opionons as I can.

I was dead set on making this car what I wanted it to be...but I do understand that it is only original once...and soo many 914's just have rotted away, or were hacked up with scarry mods...even when new by dealers installing aftermarket A/C.

I need as much input as I can b/c on one hand; I want to make a very nice 914...the way I could not afford to back when I was a kid in 1977. on the other I can certainly appreciate not devaluing the car with unreversable mods.

[aharder]

I would have to say you need to answer the questions:
Did you buy it as an investment and want to get your money out of it one day?
Did you buy it to build and enjoy the building and driving? (IMG:style_emoticons/default/confused24.gif)

I've owned mine for 31 years and I bought it from the original owner. I get great
pleasure from working on her and driving her. When I can't get in and out on her and work on her, that's when I will let her go.

Either way..... Enjoy while you can (IMG:style_emoticons/default/beerchug.gif)

[jimkelly]

another thing ...

the nicest cars to hit the classifieds here have run between $15k and $30k.

there is a beauty here right now for $21k.

it is easy to drop $10k on these cars and not even touch body and paint.

also ...

these cars either need very minor rust repair - or tons of rust repair. so doing a conversion using a nice car will keep your rust repair budget low and in fact will probably save you money in the long run.

i'm curious - what is your complete budget for parts and labor?