Aftermarket vendor called me stupid...what do you think? Options

[carr914]

Part of my original post was so George could see it ( he was lurking)

But here's my 2 cents - it may be original, but it is a 75. It's your car so do what you want. There is no guarantee that these cars will become the next 356 or early 911 in terms of value - actually I have seen some 356's fairly cheap lately. $19,500 for a 75, not any time soon.

[PeeGreen 914]

Part of my original post was so George could see it ( he was lurking)

But here's my 2 cents - it may be original, but it is a 75. It's your car so do what you want. There is no guarantee that these cars will become the next 356 or early 911 in terms of value - actually I have seen some 356's fairly cheap lately. $19,500 for a 75, not any time soon.

(IMG:style_emoticons/default/agree.gif) Who cares what a car is worth. If all it is to you is an investment don't bother wasting your time as you are already over your head with a '75. Do what you will enjoy with no regret. You likely will not be able to get near what you put into it out of it but you will get your moneys worth of enjoyment.

[Type 47]

First..... (IMG:style_emoticons/default/welcome.png)

Thanks for the welcome...I've been away from 914's for awhile but have owned 7...my 1st was a daily driver from 77'-88'

Pro's & Con's to what you want to do....but it's your car & your checkbook!

I think that his/her input was based upon it ostensibly being a pristine very low mileage survivor in original paint (if it indeed has never been repainted), which are very few & far between nowadays, and command a price/value premium in the marketplace. At 36-37 years old, that's only an average of about 1700 miles/yr - or long period(s0 time just sitting undriven!

I wouldn't say it's pristine...but I do know from my other 914's that this one has original rivots in the rocker panels, and nearly every bolt/screw (except service items) look original. I get your point about if it has indeed not been repainted...I guess I will find out when I did a little deeper and get it ready for painting

However, before you take the "low mile survivor" route too far, you first need to be able to document from the service records/etc. back to day one `75 (or Fall 74) when first sold, that the odometer hasn't turned-over nor been reset. Unfortunately with P-cars from that era, the 5 digit odometer "lies" because you generally cannot tell whether a car has gone 99,999 or less - or if it's been 100k, 200k, 300k or more (less than average 15k/yr - say at even 2/3's of 10k/yr would be 360-370k now on a 75).

I do have some records. I was able to contact the 2nd owner (who had it for 29 years) and I do have the name/address of the 1st owner as filled in on the maintenance book. I'm confident that the odo has not rolled, but not sure how long the speedo cable has been broke

So first research your records that you got with the 914 if a new purchase, or that you've hopefully saved if you bought it new, and try to determine if it's really a 62k mile car, and also look at wear on things like gas pedal, carpets & seats, etc. to see if it LOOKS like it's really a low mileage car - &/or if it has had the interior redone, gas pedal changed for a new one, etc. - or has excessive wear.

the wear items all look good, it has a set of Michelin XZX's (early 90's era) on it that look brand new, still have the tits on the sidewalls

I've looked at several other 73-74 914-2.0s over the past 1-2 years as a more cost effective alternative to restoring/repairing my 73 2L, and most were not truly at the stated mileage by condition alone, nor could they be documented. They're just few & far between & most owners go by what the last owner said when selling - whether mistakenly or intentionally wrong.

I was looking for a 914 to create a good restored car that I could do what I wanted with...when I found this one, I could not pass it up. probably not the right candidate to pull apart and redo...to your point about few and faw between...I couldn't pass this up

Also get a Certificate of Authenticity (COA) from Porsche/PCNA to make sure that it's engine (and transaxle) numbers match what is in the 914 now - vs. what the Porsche "Kardex" build records on microfilm/digiat at PCNA say they are/were. A non-numbers matching car with a swapped engine or rebuilt 2.0 from a 1.8 OE will not be worth as much.

good advice, i was just going by the published #'s. I know they don't have vin #'s on engines to actually have matching #'s like American muslce cars do, here are the numbers on the engine GC000243, the VIN is 4752900696, and it was built 8/74

If it's only the dents, then you can get a paintless dent repair shop to repair it by massaging it out (or get the PDR tools & do it yourself), then if it has some chips & scratches you can get those airbrushed by a quality resto shop to match the existing paint.

Ther are 2 small dents in the drivers door near the bottom that are about an 1/8" deep about 2" apart, no broke paint, the other is on the other side, at the bottom of the front fender that is just a bad scrape about 2" on the fender and about 4" on the door...that broke the paint and is covered up by hand brushed on touch up paint. there is a chip on the hood that has black paint under it...leading me to think the hood was painted at some point. all the dent look like they happened from being stuck in the corner of the garage for years

As for the back-dated bumpers - well you wouldn't do it on a low mile survivor by cutting into the body shell - because you don't want anything non-reversible to sell it for the premium here. Talk to Scarlet75/Andy on here, as he just did his 75 1.8 & I'm pretty sure he didn't cut anything on the body panels to do it. If it's not really a low mileage survivor & you repaint ti, then just do a good job on it & repaint it properly.

I was thinking you could back date w/o doing permenent damage...the fed bumpers were actually a modification by the factory anyway

As for the EFI - folks usually change them out for a carb system because either they cannot get the EFI to work & don't have the money &/or mechanic with expertise nearby; or else for more power (but a 2056 big bore 2L can still get 110-125+/- HP with the D-jet EFI & "look stock"). Usually it's the "I can't get it to work" reason, but IMHO the EFI is a better set-up & you don't need to screw with sync-ing carbs, which was a major motivator for my buying my 73 914-2.0 in Dec `75! A pristine survivor is more valuable with the original engine & EFI, transaxle, etc. - with replacement & maintenance/rebuilds as necessary & appropriate.

I'm conserned about making the EFI work...I do have the original system in a box. I can appriciate not having to keep the dual carbs tuned. I'm not so much conserned about the HP, just want it to be strong enough. Not going to AutoX or track it...I have a car I do track events with that has about 5x HP the 75' 2L 914 has. I want to be able to do some PCA stuff, a few casual car shows (not interested in having a 1000 point stock original to compete with)

Most CW (Concours Weenie) future buyers of your 75 - if a survivor, would want it to qualify for the PCA's & other concours event sponsors' rules that a preservation or survivor class car have all original parts on them, be unmodified (e.g.: no carbs on a 914), & that 80% of the paint is still original. Otherwise they go up against fully restored cars in another class in most cases.

that's probably the only way vendor A's value of $19.5K would happen...I don't want a car that I have to put in a wrapper, take it out for a show a couple times a year and then wrap it back up

If you decide to take it back to EFI, then Brad Mayeur in Peoria IL - sorta across the Big Muddy from you - knows 914s well & can surely get it sorted out for you & probably can find the "missing" EFI parts as well.

Cool

So if it all checks out as a truly well kept low mileage survivor, then you should probably weigh the options of modifying it, or looking for a less pristine & higher mileage non-survivor 914 to do your hi-performance mods on, and maybe keep it as your show car (then you'd be twin-teener owner! (IMG:style_emoticons/default/biggrin.gif) ); or sell it for better money now to fund the hot-rod-914 project & car you really want.

I do have a really rough 74' that has fabricated (non-914/6) steel fender flares on it...it has been sitting outside for years...it apparently was in a front end collision and had a 73' front grafted on...not sure that is ever going to see pavement again...the fender flares and slope nose does look good though

Of course it's YOUR car & YOUR money - so you can certainly do what YOU want with it either way, but make it a well informed decision, since you could be leaving $1000s in value "on the table" by modifying a true & documented low mileage 914 survivor.

I do appreciate you taking the time to help guide me to a decision.

I'm guessing that the "vendor's" enthusiasm about hearing of a low mileage original 914 got the better of him/her (IMG:style_emoticons/default/drooley.gif) (IMG:style_emoticons/default/wub.gif) (IMG:style_emoticons/default/first.gif) - and said something like: "...you'd be crazy to...." - which unfortunately is a symptom of this classic car & 914 crazy disease we all have! (IMG:style_emoticons/default/biggrin.gif)

He actually said he was going to tell me what I should do and not what I wanted to hear...I was a little creative with my title wanting to get a lot on input and not skipped over with another "what would you do" thread

The Originality & History Forum topics on here can give you guidance on the survivor aspects, while the Garage Forums have the mod stuff.

Thanks again for your guidenss...looking forward to being back in the 914 area again.

FYI - this is one of my SoCal area buddy's 71 914/4 1.7L that he's owned since new with <61k miles, still wearing original paint that he had airbrushed in matching Bahia Red paint where it had a few usage chips & a stucco scrape he did on the garage wall - maybe 2-3% overall repainted/touched & perfectly blended, the carpets & upholstery are still all original. The Rosewood dash face, turned aluminum threshold plates, hood badge, & Western Wheels were put on by the original dealer for a buyer who backed out, before my buddy bought it new in `71. He has since replaced the rocker covers, put in new Coco mats, added the combo fuel/temp gauge from a 914-6 & a modern disc player into the glovebox with new speakers in the footwell boxes, rechromed F bumper with the Lic. plate mounting holes welded up - but not much else, and he saved the original stuff.

it does look schweeet and is very inspirational




This is to show you what a comparable age & mileage 914 survivor should look like to have the highest value (the dash, wheels, F bumber, etc. might be removed & changed back to OE by a hard core CW). Hope this helps in your quest for answers.

This does help tremendously...this is what I want my 914 to be a great, clean, rust free, gook looking car, with power enough to live up to a good 2L

Good Luck on your Quest! (IMG:style_emoticons/default/beerchug.gif)
Tom
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[Dr Evil]

My advise,

I agree that it is yours so do what you will. If you view this as an investment, then their advise was well put. If you want to make it what you want, then your opinion is all that matters. If your car is so nice that modifying it would be a travesty, sell it and buy one that would be a better candidate for customization (that is what I tend to do, so I am bias).

As for people to guide you and do top notch work, PLEASE look up Scotty B here on this forum. He is closer than Atlanta and will do award winning work with excellent communication. You wont feel like you are being called stupid (IMG:style_emoticons/default/wink.gif)

[tscrihfield]

First off (IMG:style_emoticons/default/welcome.png)

Second: do what you want with your car. You spent the money not the asshat selling parts. If backdated bumpers are what you like, by all means stick to your guns! You are the person who will be driving and admiring the car. Chances are (with the exception of a total abomination build) others will enjoy the car as well. If you want a concourse, show queen or investment, you probably would have looked harder for a year that you liked the style of. My guess is you bought the car for a deal of your liking looking to build what you wanted. Stick to it with reason of not screwing it up or tearing it down to the point of living on jack stands until we see a "FS project car" ad...

Sorry to rant... But build what you love and drive the crap out of it! (IMG:style_emoticons/default/driving.gif)

Oh and here's one to you (IMG:style_emoticons/default/beer.gif)
Cheers

[Type 47]

another thing ...

the nicest cars to hit the classifieds here have run between $15k and $30k.

there is a beauty here right now for $21k.

it is easy to drop $10k on these cars and not even touch body and paint.

also ...

these cars either need very minor rust repair - or tons of rust repair. so doing a conversion using a nice car will keep your rust repair budget low and in fact will probably save you money in the long run.

i'm curious - what is your complete budget for parts and labor?

At this point I don't have a budget...I just went through a resto of a 69 Camaro and it went 2x the budget...parts are expensive and they just don't fit right, which is very frustrating.

The 914 is in very good condition...this is my 7th one and I know where the rust should be...this car has just surface rust at the bottom of the door seams and that's about it.

The 914 won't be a resto b/c most of the parts will go back (I may fall victim to getting new carpet, mats, and stuff...but I don't think I need to) on the car. It needs to have a complete scrubbing of any possible rust...inside, out, and under and a nice paint job. If I choose to back date the bumpers...I've had new ones sitting since before I bought the car. I have a 73' 2L long block and a parts car.

If I ask myself will I ever sell the 69' Camaro...could be, maybe, don't know at this point. If I ask myself if I will ever sell the 914...well it will go in my Will before a want ad.

[mepstein]

How do you make a 914 worth $20K? Start out with $50K (IMG:style_emoticons/default/biggrin.gif)

(IMG:style_emoticons/default/welcome.png)

mark

[Elliot Cannon]

I have never thought of the 914 as an investment. If you have a dead stock, totally original, pristine, original paint, surgically clean 914-6 it might be considered an investment. Someone in Europe might pay big bucks (euros) for it. Otherwise back date those fugly bumpers, reinforce the body, install flairs, squeeze in a 3.6 and drive it like you stole it. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/driving.gif) These cars are about fun. (My .20 worth)
Cheers, Elliot

[messix]

i have a '75, back date the bumpers!

not hard to do and you don't alter the that much. you drill 8 hole for the bumper bolts and trim off the lip on the front trunk edge and the side lips that hold the side of the bubs on.

do find and reinstall the f/i! you will appreciate it later over carbs, you will have start up and go ability and better fuel mileage and you will gain hp with current cam.

changing the cam means splitting the case and full disassembly and that will turn into a $$$$ pit "while you're in there",

the l-jet can be made to work on a 2L very well, search rootwerks and l-jet [i mention l-jet because the parts are cheap and available used and new, not high on the demand list]

[Type 47]

I would have to say you need to answer the questions:
Did you buy it as an investment and want to get your money out of it one day?
Did you buy it to build and enjoy the building and driving? (IMG:style_emoticons/default/confused24.gif)

I've owned mine for 31 years and I bought it from the original owner. I get great
pleasure from working on her and driving her. When I can't get in and out on her and work on her, that's when I will let her go.

Either way..... Enjoy while you can (IMG:style_emoticons/default/beerchug.gif)

I've owned this car for 1.5 years but I've had a 914 for 34 years. I did not buy it as an investment but would like for it to hold it's value.

My goal was to build the 914 I never had when I was growing kids and a career. I didn't contemplate this delima of finding a car that may be to good to take a part.

[scotty b]

(IMG:style_emoticons/default/welcome.png) There are plenty of us here that will talk with you without talking down to you so feel free to ask any questions. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)

IMO the things you talk about " modding " on your car are ALL completely reversible, so IF you were to sell the car at a later date it wouldn't take the new owner too much effort to get it back to original, so do whatcha wanna do (IMG:style_emoticons/default/beerchug.gif)

BTW the "vendor" we all assume you are speaking about is notorious for this type of " personality " so don't take it personally

[76-914]

I solved the whole dilemma by having two. A bone stock unmolested 76 and a 73 converted and molested. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/beerchug.gif)

[laflaur]

when I bought my factory six,I looked for a complete running car.I was not interested in originality,what I wanted was a running six cylinder car.It just so happened that the one I found was a factory six.I built it for me,to drive and have fun,I really never thought about what it would be worth.
Like you I bought the car of my youth,Iwatched them at Laguna Seca,on the street here in NorCal.
If someone wanted to give you 19.5,take it.
As a matter of fact,you should put it on Ebay and see what the market is,put a 19.5 reserve on it.
No harm no foul
Then, do the car of your dreams,whether it that 75 or another.
Me,I am thinking of doing a 916 clone complete with fixed hardtop,on my six!

[windforfun]

To each his own. I'm old school & lazy. I like stock.

[Type 47]

...

If you decide to take it back to EFI, then Brad Mayeur in Peoria IL - sorta across the Big Muddy from you - knows 914s well & can surely get it sorted out for you & probably can find the "missing" EFI parts as well.

...Tom
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That name sounded familiar, so I did a quick dig and found a Brad Mayeur business card I had got at some point. Not sure where I got it, probably have had it for 10 years, but I was able to prduce it within 2 minutes of looking.

[Mikey914]

It's your car, spend where you want. But with that being said, I like the sound of carbs, but with a stock cam it will never run quite right. It would be easier to put fuel injection back on. You could allways go back and recoupe the purchase if you change your mind. I'm back dating my bumpers, but that's just me. I could always go back.

Put the car in drivable condition and enjoy it!

[mrbubblehead]

my dad told me something when i was younger and i always use this approach. he told me "build the car for you. not the next guy".

[PanelBilly]

Then again, think about the car. Should it be saved from modification because its rare? Would you like your grandchildren to drive an original and understand what it would have been like to tool around in an underpowered go cart?

[PanelBilly]

Then again, think about the car. Should it be saved from modification because its rare? Would you like your grandchildren to drive an original and understand what it would have been like to tool around in an underpowered go cart?

On second thought, If you leave it stock, everyone will nit-pick every detail. You need to be prepared to explain why you did or didn't do repairs to someone else's standard. A modified car gets to be what it is and the non-owners can like it or not!

[mrbubblehead]

Then again, think about the car. Should it be saved from modification because its rare? Would you like your grandchildren to drive an original and understand what it would have been like to tool around in an underpowered go cart?

On second thought, If you leave it stock, everyone will nit-pick every detail. You need to be prepared to explain why you did or didn't do repairs to someone else's standard. A modified car gets to be what it is and the non-owners can like it or not!

(IMG:style_emoticons/default/agree.gif) if it needs new tires, put on better tires. if it needs new shocks, put on better shocks. if it needs new tie rods, put on turbo units. and so on.....
who cares. its your car. unless it is a flawless museum piece. otherwise you might be less likely to drive it. and you wont mind if brake dust get on the inside of your wheels