914 Engine Choices, Will buy 914, if I can build a monster Options

[GreekDriver]

Those motors are good. My buddy has an EVO spec 2.3 in his E30 race car. I think it dynoed at about 270. Bullit is where he hangs out and they service his car, too.

Now, while those are great motors, I'd still prefer a Porsche -6 in my car for numerous reasons.

1. Cost - 3.2 is readily available and the design work is done
2. No water to mess with
3. THE SOUND - aircooled flat sixes sound like heaven!
4. Support - easy to find people who have Been There Done That
5. More venues to race (non-porsche engines are poo-pood in most P-Car clubs)
6. 320 HP is plenty in a 2000 lb car

To each your own, just my 2 cents.

I didn't know I could do that!

I better read the forums more.

[GreekDriver]

And some of you people are so unfriendly! I guess even the 2,000 dollar Porsche owners are douchebags... (IMG:style_emoticons/default/wink.gif)

Here I am wanting a lightweight, tossable, highpowered 914, and SOME of you people act like asses. I ask questions and get snooty replies. I guess a 2800lbs V8 powered 914 is awesome... But a 2200lbs 914 with a superior BMW motor(The M10 is unbelievably better than the Type IV) and you guys with your plan is TEH suX0RS!11!!!

I like the 914 and I'm going to stick a BMW engine into one. If you're just going to say, "That's stupid, you're might be a troll." Don't post.

If you're going to say something like seanery, who pointed out the Carrera motor might be good and keep weight down, post it.

Can you guys think of many 450hp 2200lb 914s that aren't race cars? I can't...

I apologize to those that helped out, this is not directed to you guys in anyway, you've been alot of help!

[Andyrew]

Out of curiosity.. How much money do you have to spend on this???

Because if You want to do this.. Buy someone's project.. Get a ride in a v8 914... spend 25k on someones ALREADY done monster (in whatever mix..)

There are a lot of race cars for sale for 10k... Beef em up and you have what you want...

Dont start with a "great car" and make it a race car... Start with a Piece of junk or another race car.... Or buy someone's project..

Again..

How much money do you plan spending??


If you want the fastest 914... build a high revving SBC v8.... Ya, they sound awesome.... Oh and if 500 hp isnt enough.. theres always turbo's for an even COOLER sound....

AGAIN How much money do you have to plan on spending?

[Andyrew]

v8 914's are about 2300 to 2400 lbs, in stock form...

Then do the usual lightening... and cut off 200 lbs...

Just on the engine you can loose..

34 lbs for an aluminum intake.

40 lbs for aluminum heads

100 (I dont know..) for an aluminum block....

See if there is a v8 or any high hp 914 around you to take a ride in.....

[Joe Bob]

Ooooppsie...WE must be related...he's gettin' pissy. Ask yer questions after a bit of research....lot's of resources on this site and the 'BIRD" board.....we will help ya, but it has been discussed adnaseum (crappy latin)....look at the old posts and the FAQ......

cool yer jets and ask nice......otherwise.... :finger2:

[airsix]

And some of you people are so unfriendly! I guess even the 2,000 dollar Porsche owners are douchebags... (IMG:style_emoticons/default/wink.gif)

Here I am wanting a lightweight, tossable, highpowered 914, and SOME of you people act like asses.

Hey Geek. Good to have you join us. I've got tenure so I can say whatever I want and pretty much get away with it, so here goes. New guys around here usually don't start posting right off the bat. They lurk and read and search and then begin posting ever so gradually until they've built up a little acceptance with the group. You kinda 'burst through the doors' with a big entrance. Caught a few peopel off guard. I'm not saying it was wrong - just not what they're used to. Also a lot of people around here are defensive about the TypeIV, so you'll ruffle a few feathers if you imply that the TypeIV is less than magnificent. Like I said - I've got tenure so I can get away with saying it's anemic and sounds like a tractor. Anyway, some people I consider to be friends and generally very nice people have pitched some sh*ty remarks in your direction the past two days and I can only hope they didn't mean them to sound as bad as they did. Make some jokes. Hang around and get to know us. Pretty soon you'll find your place among us. This group is a community much more than most other BBS's you may have been to. A large percentage of the posters here have known each other for years. Even decades. When you barge in with a bunch of loud talk... well you know. So hang around a while and you'll be integrated if you'll give it a chance. Get a 914 and start posting your conversion project pictures and you'll win the crowd over in a hurry (extra points for doing your own fabrication work).

-Ben M. (on my way out to the shop to work on my "exhaust restrictor" project. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/wink.gif) )

[lapuwali]

I didn't know I could do that!

I better read the forums more.

Not to be pissy myself, but you need to read the replies you've received on this very subject more. My first post on this subject, the very first reply, mentioned the 3.2 911 engine as a possible swap, since it's commonly done. You immediately dismissed the idea because I mentioned the engine was heavier than the Type IV.

I think some of the defensiveness and unfriendliness you're experiencing is due to the fact that you're dissing the car before you even own one. This tends to rub people the wrong way, and makes you sound a bit like a know-it-all asshole, which rubs even more people the wrong way.

Fitting any I4 engine longitudinally into the 914 is going to be a challenge, IMHO. The Chevy V8 just barely fits, and you have to do things like space the engine back AND move the water pump off to the side to make it work w/o cutting the firewall. The one 928 V8 powered 914 has a heavily modified firewall (but the result looks well worth the effort). The 944 engine is known to not fit w/o serious surgery. There's a lot of width in the engine bay, but not a lot of length. Fitting the turbo and its plumbing probably won't be an issue at all if you can make the engine itself fit. Fitting an intercooler AND providing it with good airflow will be an interesting problem.

Honestly, I think just a stock early M3 engine should be quite enough. Anything over 200hp in a 914 will be tremendous.

[Aaron Cox]

I didn't know I could do that!

I better read the forums more.

Not to be pissy myself, but you need to read the replies you've received on this very subject more. My first post on this subject, the very first reply, mentioned the 3.2 911 engine as a possible swap, since it's commonly done. You immediately dismissed the idea because I mentioned the engine was heavier than the Type IV.

I think some of the defensiveness and unfriendliness you're experiencing is due to the fact that you're dissing the car before you even own one. This tends to rub people the wrong way, and makes you sound a bit like a know-it-all asshole, which rubs even more people the wrong way.

Fitting any I4 engine longitudinally into the 914 is going to be a challenge, IMHO. The Chevy V8 just barely fits, and you have to do things like space the engine back AND move the water pump off to the side to make it work w/o cutting the firewall. The one 928 V8 powered 914 has a heavily modified firewall (but the result looks well worth the effort). The 944 engine is known to not fit w/o serious surgery. There's a lot of width in the engine bay, but not a lot of length. Fitting the turbo and its plumbing probably won't be an issue at all if you can make the engine itself fit. Fitting an intercooler AND providing it with good airflow will be an interesting problem.

Honestly, I think just a stock early M3 engine should be quite enough. Anything over 200hp in a 914 will be tremendous.

very well put (IMG:style_emoticons/default/agree.gif)

[GreekDriver]

Oh geez, I forgot to tell you guys about the 914 today...

I got it up on a jack, and its rusted pretty badly. I brought my fat friend with me, well he's kinda fat, but 6'4" so he's heavy, and the car passed the fat man test, but the amount of rust is worrying me. The rear suspension sags, and there is rust around the battery tray area.

I think I'm going to pass unless I can talk him down 2,000 dollars...

I know I will never find a rust free example, but I'll atleast look for the least rusty.

And it still has the FI system.

[seanery]

the area under the battery that is making the rear (right side I bet) sag is called the "Hell Hole" for good reason. Lotsa rust causes the sag.

[Mueller]

I only paid $800 for my 914 so piss off, LOL

what the hell do you expect?

a group hug??

you asked for advice/opinions.....you start off blasting the shifting qualities or lack of on the 914, then you criticize the stock type IV motor and give us a history lesson on why BMW engines are so superior....it's like me going to your house and telling you how f'd up your place is and that I've slept in nicer Motel 6's.....I'm all for an interesting engine swap, hell, anyone would love to have an 180 lb motor that is capable of producing 300 or more HP, but with what you've written, I don’t think you have the mechanical skill or knowledge to pull it off...who knows you might prove me wrong and build something nicer than I have (which isn't very hard to do right now, LOL)....

I don't know how I'd get it to work with the 914.

...well, you "could" bolt it up the stock transmission...oh wait, no you can't, cause you are going to throw it away......

Ben, I've seen the Chrysler 4 cylinder turbo motor in a 914 (bolted up to the 901), and I'm pretty sure he didn't cut the firewall.....looking at some pictures, the M10 motor looks tiny and should fit in much easier than my VR6 motor

spend more money on a clean chassis, doing rust repair work sucks

[GreekDriver]

I don't really need mechanical knowledge, I need a plasma cutter and some weldling materials... (IMG:style_emoticons/default/wink.gif)

I have good enough know how about mechanics to get it done, if someone starts something they have to finish it right? Especially if they're paying for it... (IMG:style_emoticons/default/biggrin.gif)

This goes back to my schematics. I have software for my BMWs that tells me everything about the car. Where every single nut and bolt goes, and how every peice of electrical machinery works. For a project like this I would need something like that, some sort of schematics of the 914. Maybe if I could find some manual that Porsche mechanics used. Do you guys know anything like what I'm talking about. I know the 914 is old and its VERY unlikely it has schematics on computer, but there should be a book somewhere.

What it looks like I'm going to do is read the forums, wait for the right 914 to come along, get the engine built(if I cant' find a 914, I'll use a 2002), and then spend alot of time in my garage... There really is nothing I can screw up, if I do something wrong, I'd know. Just takes patience, and I have that for cars.

Now, about the rust. I know all 914s have it, is there rust I can get away without repairing? I don't know what the crucial zones are.

For the intercooler and radiator, I think I have an idea of how to mount them in the rear, but I need to look at a 914 alot more carefully to see if it is possible. I think I am going to use 2 smaller intercoolers rather than one larger intercooler, but I'll have to see. My friend suggested mounting them on the sides and have custom quarter panels made... He also said to stick the radiator right behind my head... I think he was kidding about both... (IMG:style_emoticons/default/unsure.gif) I cracked up just picturing it.

Thanks.

(IMG:style_emoticons/default/beerchug.gif)

Edit: What about the differential? Did the 914 come with different ratios? I'd like bellow 3.3:1, if it exists. <_< Are there any interchangeable diffs off other P-Cars?

[lapuwali]

What about the differential? Did the 914 come with different ratios? I'd like bellow 3.3:1, if it exists. dry.gif Are there any interchangeable diffs off other P-Cars?

There are some other ring gears, but the ratio spread isn't wide. The pinion is part of the gearbox output shaft, so you would need to change that if the ratio spread were wide. You don't really want something below 3.3:1. The stock ratio is something like 8.5:1. The internal gearing on the 901 is very different from BMW gearing. 3.3:1 would only be useful if you're taking the car to Bonneville and plan to use a push truck. The 901 does have a zillion alternate ratios available (this was Porsche's primary racing gearbox throughout the 60s). Do a search here and you'll find a gearing chart with all of the alternate ratios.

[Jeroen]

I tried real hard not to post, but I can resist no longer (IMG:style_emoticons/default/biggrin.gif)

You get snotty remarks, basically because you ask for them (IMG:style_emoticons/default/biggrin.gif)
Not because you say the type4 or other pieces/parts of the 914 are crap... We don't care about any of that. 914-ers have thick skins and are used to that (on the porsche-scale, most consider the 914 to be somewhere down in the gutter (IMG:style_emoticons/default/biggrin.gif))

It's your BS remarks about things like it needs to rev over 9.5K, turbo, 1500bhp, blah, blah, blah... that will get you into trouble here.

Most people here have "been there, done that" and know a few things about these cars.
Some of them worked, raced or converted them for as long as the car is around, so they should know a thing or 2 about what works and what doesn't

We've had guys like you come and go here before. You come off with BS claims and a "know it all" attitude. Stuff like that may impress people on a BMW, Honda or other rice-racer forum, but here people will just laugh their asses off and tell you to piss off (IMG:style_emoticons/default/biggrin.gif)

So there you have it...

Back on topic:
Like I mentioned earlier... even IF you can build that 225bhp/litre engine that only weighs 30#, how are you gonna get that kind of power to the wheels?
A 901 box won't hold up for sure, and even a converted 915 (bring serious money) probably won't last long.
To handle that kind of power. You'd probably be looking at a modified 930 tranny (most likely not hip enuf for you because it only has 4 gears and wouldn't work in your case because of your high reving small powerband engine either).
More likely you'll need a late G50 type transmission (again bring serious money and then some to get it running in a midengined car).

I don't think I've heard you mention 1 thing about suspension upgrades and very little about brake upgrades.
Typical for any boy-racer, because you'd think that huge bhp's will win a race.
People here know different and will learn how to drive first, build a good suspension/brakes second and get more power once they know they can handle it
Another reason (for me) to think you're just full of BS.

For now, I'll give you the benefit of the doubt, just a little longer and see what happens next...

About the electronic parts catalog and even the factory manual... yes, they exist (IMG:style_emoticons/default/biggrin.gif)
you'll have to ask nicely and someone here may point you in the right direction (IMG:style_emoticons/default/wink.gif)

Oh, btw... Sean was wrong about the 3.2 it makes 230 (not 320) bhp in stock trim
Don't know too much about BMW's (nor do I care about them) but IIRC that's what the recent 3.2 3series BMW puts out, so BMW is only like 2 decades behind (IMG:style_emoticons/default/lol2.gif)

cheers,

Jeroen

[ArtechnikA]

...You don't really want something below 3.3:1. The stock ratio is something like 8.5:1.

the stock R&P ratio is 4,429:1 (7:31 tooth ratio)
due to the torque convertor, SportoMatic R&P's are a little taller (8:32 IIRC).

[Mueller]

about the only thing available for the 914 is found here:
914 manual

the nice thing about the 914 is how simple it is, even the wiring is not too bad, I've pulled the entire harness out and re-installed it just using a copy of the factory wiring diagram (next time I'll label everything to save me a days worth of work)

I don't really need mechanical knowledge, I need a plasma cutter and some weldling materials...

you'd be surprised how easy the swaps are, normally for 90% of the swaps, the only cutting needed is just a few holes in the front trunk (air inlet and air exit for the radiator), the only welding needed is for the engine mount (and exhaust perhaps)

[lapuwali]

the stock R&P ratio is 4,429:1 (7:31 tooth ratio)

My eyes...I even misread your reply, thinking you were correcting my number to 7.3:1 from 8.5:1.

3.3:1 still sounds absurdly tall to me, esp. for someone intent on building a 10,000rpm engine...

[seanery]

oops, sorry bout the typo. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/ohmy.gif)

[Aaron Cox]

i think he should do some huge hig revving 1500hp engine in a 2002. better yet, i want a v8 2002 (IMG:style_emoticons/default/wub.gif)

[Sammy]

My V8 914 weighed around 2400 pounds and I beat up on M3s and a modified M coupe (barely) on the track. My car was tossable and quick and fun.
I really like the M series inline 6, but I I'm scratching my head as to why you are so impressed with the inline 4.
It aint that special when compared to other modern engines Re: previous post on honda S2000.

Ok students, take notes, this part is on the test:
a 914 is......
a small, light, 30 year old car that is very fun to drive. Not because it has a fart pipe or powered by whatever stickers, but because it is so nimble, basic, and quirky. They aint fast (in a straight line) unless you put a large flat 6 or V8 in them. They are momentum cars that feel like a go-kart.
The shifting isn't comparable to a modern car, they have squeaks, rattles, wind noise, and are a bit "strange" and eccentric and require quite a bit on maintenence, they don't have power brakes or power windows or power steering, those are the reasons we love them.
If you love the 914 for the same reason, welcome to the club, you will fit right in.

if you hate the 914 for those reasons and want to try and change the car so that it is no longer a 914, don't buy one because you will not be happy with a 914 no matter how much you modify it, ever.
a 914 will always be a 914 unless you replace everything with parts from a different car, then it becomes a different car and isn't a 914. In that case isn't it easier just to buy a different car in the first place?
What I'm trying to say is, some of the reasons you dissed the 914 are the same reasons we like em. It is rather complicated and expensive to change these cars,
I suggest you get to know the car better before diving into something you may regret.