Hello. I'm a BMW fan, sorry guys. But the 914 has to be one of the funnest cars I've ever driven! Other than its transmission feeling like shifting through oatmeal and damn near impossible to get a smoot shift out of... (This is on all 914s I've driven, even one with a rebuilt transmission)

Well, there's a nice 914 for sale, with minimal rust, original motor, great interior and paint, and low miles. It's a 76 2.0l I believe, in Black. A fella in the neighborhood has had it since 1979 and barely driven it. He's not a car guy, he bought it because it looked nice. It drives nicely, but it lacks power, and the brakes don't impress me.

It's going to need an engine and rebuilding the type iv to its horrible stock form would just piss me off. Alot. I've been looking at engine options and I have no clue on what to do. I want lightweight, EXTREMELY high revving, past 10k RPMs, and over 190hp. So the V8s are out of the question. I've thought about a 2.0l Carrea motor, as those should be able to rev like hell when built. But I haven't really seen much info on them anywhere. Another Idea I had was an S14 engine from the E30 M3(1988 BMW M3), but I have no clue what transmission I'd use and how I'd get it to work... My last idea was to build an M10 up. The M10 was THE I-4 out of the BMW 2002s, E21s, and some E30s. It loves boost, the 1.5l block was doing 1500hp for BMW F1 in the 80s. I would try to find a way to get it to rev high in N/A form, or boost it. But again, I don't know how I'd get it to work with the 914.

Anyways, just give me some general ideas guys. I'd worry about suspension and brakes later. Oh, and the damn transmission would be going to the yard and I'm going to request to see it crunched, it would make me feel so good.

Thanks! And it's nice to be here! Hopefully I'll get some interesting responses to push me to buy that car.

You'll find that no matter what gearbox you use (including the 914 gearbox), it's the linkage that makes all the difference in shifter feel. With a freshly rebuilt and properly adjusted 914 side-shift linkage with something like the Rennshift (see the Vendor's section on this board), you're going to get about best feel possible short of spending megadollars on something like a WEVO 915 setup.

The basic 901 gearbox itself is actually a pretty decent design, and has the big advantage of being very light (about 75lbs). However, they're all old, and rebuilding them properly is quite expensive ($4000). There are a number of alternatives out there (Audi, ZF, 915, 930), but they're all either very experimental or very expensive.

As for the engine, the Subaru flat-four weighs 40lbs less than the stock 914 engine according to a few sources, which makes it considerably lighter than many other engines (the 914 engine is about 275lbs). DOHC, four-valve, and bone-stock turbo 2.5 versions are pushing 300hp. You'll not see 10K rpm with it, but I'm not entirely sure why that would be a requirement.

I've never heard of a "2.0l carrea". Perhaps you mean a Carrera, which covers a lot of ground, but as far as I know never came in 2.0L form (at least not in a street car). The engine out of an '84-'88 911 (the 3.2 Carrera) is most likely the engine you're thinking of, and is a relatively common swap into a 914, along with most of the other air-cooled 911 engines, which range in power from 120hp to over 300hp. They're not especially light engines (early 911 engines being 70-100lbs more than a 914 engine, later ones being heavier still), but they fit the car well and there are lots of parts and knowledge available on fitting them to the 914.

btw, the '76 914 is the heaviest of the series. If you're concerned about light weight, a '70-'72 is a good bit lighter (200-300lbs).

If you want high revs plus hp, what about a Mazda 3 rotor engine?

Stick to BMW's. You don't appear to have any real passion or anyreal knowledge about how and why the cars you say you've driven don't shift correctly. Could be the hand working the lever. 914 don't shift like other cars. Specially BMW's. They have bushings that ware and require service. They all need to have their brakes serviced if they sit too much and the late model smog cars will not impress you if your looking for a neck snapping throttle response. There has been every kind of swap you can think of done to these cars. No insult intended but any conversion, restoration or modification worth doing requires passion.


BTW:

1972 914 with 1980 euro-spec "S" motor 300+ hp

1977 530I L-jet conversion, 5 speed conversion, slammed & tucked
1984 533I
1971 2002 IMSA Style wide body
1976 2002 190 HP franken motor
1995 M3 Daytonaviolett, Borla, 18" Hammans with Toyo Proxies Carbon trim, chip strut bar

damn Rich, I didn't know you has so many of those darn blocking my way cars in your possesion

GreekDriver,

do a search on google and the web in general....tons of information on 914's and conversions........adapting the engine to the transmission is usually no big deal, you use an adapter plate and flywheel (search)....as far as I know, no one has done a bmw conversion....i guess you could be the first....have you priced parts for your dream S14 engine or any engine for it to spin up to 10K (not including the rotary)...not cheap at all...a honda engine might be your best best for what you are asking unless you have deep pockets with money to burn

I can shift just fine, but coming off firm, yet smooth shifting BMWs to 914s that feel like mush is a very very frustrating feeling.

The reason I want a 914 is because it handles great and is a great looking car. I want an extremely rev-happy motor simply because of the sound. I just want it to rev like hell, because driving in open air, with a roaring motor is fun. It's not practical, but driving a 914 isn't practical either...

I should probably stick to my BMWs as a 2002 or an E30 M3 with the kind of money I'd want to invest would shame alot of P-cars. But I think I'm going to be stubborn and buy the 914 and have my fun with it. It seems like a great project car.

And really how am I suppose to have knowledge about those 914s? I'm new to them, but almost every person I've met hates the way they shift, and I don't know why it would be viewed as acceptable. It's going to be one of the first things I fix.

And can't I stick some kind of BMW brakes on to the 914?

My passion is the end result, I do not like the way the 914 comes stock...

I did a search on Google, but the results don't bring up what I need, and I'm a good Googler. I've been looking for hours, and just reading posts on this forum has gotten much further than Google.

I might just forget the high revving idea and through in a turbo charged M10. M10s are really cheap, and produce alot of power reliably. I really wouldn't want to do a Honda Motor, Hondas get enough praise for being great. But I'm going to look into that.

The S14 is a dream, it would be extremely expensive, and I'm a bit of a purist with the E30 M3, meaning I wouldn't want to put such a limited engine into a non E30 M3.

I could get the M10 to rev to about 8.5k RPMS under boost and keep it affordable and reliable, while putting out over 220rwhp, so I think I might do that.

As far as brakes go, just make sure the current system is clean and solid and it should stop very well. Get good pads and it's great.

I doubt you'll find any 10k rpm motor for our cars, short of a rotary. You don't need tons of rpms to get a great sound. Listen to any smaller six and it sings!

Remove the smog from the 76 and put a new cam with some bigger jugs and carbs and you'll get a nice, healthy powerplant that may spin to 7k safely.

And shifting a 914 is an artform. It takes finese. It's not like an E30 or E36 at all. Drive a well sorted car before you start your project and it will help guide you to a fun place.

Wow, thanks for the advice. The Carrera motor sounds expensive and heavy, so I think that's out of the question.

And if the earlier 914s are that much lighter, I should probably skip this car over!

I'll definetly look at the vendors section, that shift feel really has to be fixed.

Thanks!

I had been driving a 3.0 Z4 the days prior to the 914 test... The Z4 had a salvaged title, but I had a great feel to it. I'm probably spoiled.

Who manufactures good pads for this car?

And is there any software like the BMW ETK software that has these cars mapped? I have software for BMW that has complete schematics. I could settle for a detailed book or repair manual.

Yes you can use BMW calipers. some guy's use modified 320 calipers. they require machining to fit. I'm running a set of 4 piston calipers off a 2002 on my 1972 914. They were a direct bolt on. This is my spin on upgrading the brakes. If you increase the sprung weight by adding a big cast iron V8 and add over size diameter as in taller, wider, and heavier than stock tires and wheels (unsprung weight) you will want to increase the clamping force. If you leave the car stock as in type IV motor, stock type wheels etc. the brakes should be fine as long as they are in proper order.

35 years of design does mean something. The 914 brakes are also unpowered, which is something that takes getting used to for people who grew up only driving cars with servos on them.




Not entirely sure what you're asking here. There are copies of wiring diagrams on this board and elsewhere. The Haynes manual has them, too. If you're asking about engine mapping (as in the fuel injection system), these systems aren't "mapped", as they're not digital. All analog ECUs. 1960s tech, literally.

Hey GreekDriver how much does your neighbour want for the 914?

Greekdriver, I gotta' tell ya' I love the shifting in the 914 (901 tranny)! As far as the high RPM's I don't believe that's necessary. At present when I'm in the car with a lady you already have to shout back 'n' forth do to the beautiful sound. Plus when we get out we have those big grins while our ears are hummin' like we jus' stepped out of a rock concert. Damn it's fun!!!

whats that you say? cant hear you Hold on, lemme pull over, or go into a higher gear

ok, here's some educational brain-excrement about high-rev-motors ...

unless you're talking about building a real racecar, a engine that revs into the 10k range will not be very useable.
basically, what you do by building such a engine is, simply put, to move the useable power band up into the higher rpm's.
the reason you do this for a race car is, also simply put, the fact that you usually don't run under, let's say 4k rpm on a open track, so power below that threshold is wasted.
thus, you build a motor that revs up to 10k but it won't make *any* power below 5k what-so-ever!

now, suppose you got a motor like that and also suppose you drive the car daily on the road,
do you have any idea what that will do to you while you're sitting in that traffic jam called morning commute?
a motor like that will not be drivable on the street if the car is used as a normal driver.
period.

for mostly street application and AX, you want low end torque. lots of it.
and you ain't gonna get it from a high-rev motor.


as for the sound, just record your girlfriends sewing machine,
pump up the volume by 10x and play it on 45 ...
(wait, they don't make those anymore!)

Andy

LOL! I know what the advantages of having a peaky, high revving engine are. I'm not new to cars.

The E30 M3 is gutless bellow 4k RPMS and it needs to be wound to hell to get moving in traffic, and I love that. Except the E30 M3 isn't used by many as a daily driver... And this Porsche wouldn't be used as a daily driver, it would be a weekend/track car. I have this car to cruise the boulevards...



The way I see it, if the Honda S2000, a car that can be bought for under 20 grand used can spin at 9,000 RPMS and put out 240hp, why can't a heavily modified BMW or Porsche engine?

I am wanting to build a race car.

I shouldn't have said simply because of the sound, thats part of it though. Who wouldn't want a weekend/track car with a 10k RPM redline.

Lazy people don't like to shift in traffic, I personally have a hell of a time driving around town with a car that needs to rev to get power.

Plus Flat power bands aren't fun. Whats fun is a power zone where your either in it or not. Like on or off.

I'm auto-crossing in another E30 right now. It's cheap, has crappy tires, and its suspension is stock, so it wont cover any of my mistakes. By the time the Porsche is ready, I should be a much better driver.

i wonder how well a bmw shifts that was mfg from 70-76. you can make the 914 shift very well and smooth as well.but i dont think you will get it as well as a shifter that is pretty much attached to the trans like in a bmw.

10 feet of linkage with quite a few directinoal changes ...

i'm actually quite impressed how *well* a 914 shifts if you keep all your bushings in good working order.
all things considered, i think my car shifts great. the only "improvement" i can think of would be one of James's Rennshifters ...

which reminds me, it looks like i'll finally have to funds available to buy one this month!
Andy

Try to find a 3.2L 914 to drive as it should fit most of your requirements. Over 230hp, rvs like crazy and sounds great!
It would also be the most streetable engine I can think of....plus plenty of torque for the track.
This only costs around 10k to convert to without doing the updates to the brakes and suspension.
Buy a finished car and save yourself time and money if the high hp route is your dream.
A turbo rotary would also fit the bill but tons of work to build it right due to all the extra heat from the motor.


Geoff

that is fine and dandy, but do you know for a fact that you'll have a place to run this bastard of a conversion??
(anything not Porsche powered, just the same as powering an M3 with a chevy V8...wait, that would be cool, LOL)

even with my conversion, the installation of a VW Jetta/Corrado VR6 into my 914, I have no place to "race" it.......the only places for me to play are when some of the private groups rent a track and let me play....

you just want to make sure that once built, you have a place to run it instead of just the street....it should be fun car if built correct...now that you know it can be done, get on it and quit talking about it...we want to see progress

I too had BMW 2002's before my 914.
Yes they shift different.
Yes they do not rev as high.
None of that matters. These 914 cars evoke a different kind of one with the car feeling. I have been into turns auto-xing going way too fast, have been severly opposite locked, side ways, and got out of the turn without hitting any cones! These cars are so controlable at the limit that you feel comfortable there. My 2002 never came close. (and I had a very nice TII)
As far as motor sound, there are not many motors that can match an aircooled motor.
Aircooled Porsches sound louder as they rev higher. They have fans, noisy valves etc that combine to make you feel like you are going faster than you are.
This mechanical music, the quick shifts of a seasoned 914 owner and the balance of the car make it a tough car to beat.
I now own a 914 with a SBC. It is extremely fast, yet it does not feel like you are going 100mph. The threshold of feeling fast is so much higher that it is hard to get there. Whereas in the 4cyl 914 you had to do a lot of work to get to that same 100mph and so did the motor and you feel like you accomplished something. So the V8 car in some ways is not as much fun, or more correctly, not the same experience.
BTW I bought my first 914 just for the hell of it, took it auto-xing and never looked back.
One more thing, I think that 914's are only fun for the driver, not the passenger. They are loud, hot, and blow womens hair everywhere. I own my 914s because I love to drive them, no other reason.

Yasou,
Yiorgos

amen!

I like the way the 914 shifts.

Actually the three rotor is the "big block" of rotaries and as such doesn't rev as high. A better choice would be a peripheral port 13B (two rotor) which can be built to rev 10,000 rpm. However even with a rotary you had better build it right for those rpm's. My twin turbo three rotor has a redline of 7000 rpm and probably pull 8000 rpm if you push it in stock form.

A normally aspirated peripheral port 13B will make a over 300 hp at the flywheel. Or you could just bridge port it and get 285 hp. The difference is the life expectancy of the engine. The peripheral port won't last as long as the bridge port. The candle that burns twice as bright burns 1/2 as long right? If you throw in a turbo you could get over 600 hp but you still would have a hard time with the 10,000 rpms. A three rotor can give you over 1000 hp in big turbo format. I'm aiming for 400 rwhp with the stock twin turbos.

what is this thing called "shifting"...must your car be running to achieve this so called lever moving operation??

HAHA! Ok, ok I haven't driven my 914 in a LONG time. I don't think it has seen more than 100miles in the last 2 years...

I'm going to look at the 914 again today, be sure it's what I want. Hopefully the guy will be ok with taking it over to my mechanic and letting me jack it up and look at it some more. If the 70-72s are that much lighter... Maybe I should pass this deal over. He's asking 7,000. Pricee, but for minimal rust, good paint, and great interior... It seems ok.

It looks like a forced induced M10 from BMW will be what I need. 8.5k RPM redline, over 300hp, it's gong to be a mutant of an engine though. I'm going to give Kormans a call tomorrow so I can get a quote an a build. Then I'll divide it by 5 and take an M10 to my local engine builder.

Now where do I put the radiator and intercooler? In the front?

Oh man, I crack my self up...

This will take years...

I better start reading every post on the boards...

Thanks! If you guys have more information, please tell me.

Not a very good idea..

You could, for the same money:

A. Buy a Lotus. (easy, with spare change at the end)

B. Get a fully flared car, with a ZF, and a big block. (not easy)

The Lotus will scream, the BB will scream louder, and you can hold down over 1000 horses, without breaking it.

There is no reason.


M

Just an aside Hijack -
The Aston Martin and Jag 8K8 in the Bond movie "Die another day" were both powered by small block chevy v8s. They were on 5th Gear this week. They also had a lot of fake looking weapons that would pop up on demand. Very cool.

Fiid.

Oh yeah Mueller - we can race with the ARC - which is a spin off from the Northern California Racing Club. Very lightweight rules structure.

I am doing the Subaru conversion. It should be nice - I've talked about it a lot on here - do some searches. I'll the spare the regulars the pain of listening to me go through it again.

Are you seriously talking about anm M3 engine? A straight 6 in a 914 will either hang out the back of the car or you'll be using it as an arm rest. Even the Porsche V8 requires a firewall move. You will probably get away with an inline 4.

if you want a serious racing machine - lighten one a 914 A LOT and put a Hayabusa engine in it. That will rev to 10k, and give you 175hp and a sequential shift box. They can be bored to 1500ccs, and I imagine you could also look at turbocharging the thing if that wasn't enough.

Just a thought

The original M3 engine was an I-4. It's really expensive though.

The I-4 I want to use is out of a 2002, E21, or E30. It would have the M3 crank though. Hopefully there will be enough room. I'll have to measure tomorrow...

Now I'm worried about the clutch, where will I find a clutch that can handle over 300hp?

Are there any forced induced 914s I can look at?

http://www.v8914.com/

Wow...

Too bad it is atrocious looking. Very functional, but atrocious. I think it would have looked better without connecting the flares of the fenders and quarter panels. But looks don't matter in that cars case.

Unbelievable work.

That guy is amazing.

The clutch won't be the hard part... the tranny will
Start saving

With Rick, you should stick to things you "know" and leave the 30 year old cars to those of us that love and care for them.

Go get yourself a rice-mobile and tweek that. That way you won't be hacking up any of our good cars. <_<

Oh and BTW - I can speak from experience having owned a 2800CS, a 3.0 CS and a 635CSi.

We're toast....another Greek wanting to hotrod a 914.....

RUN AWAY!!!!!!!!!!!!

Hope we aren't related....

"I want an extremely rev-happy motor simply because of the sound. I just want it to rev like hell, because driving in open air, with a roaring motor is fun. ".....

Do like I did - get a Ferrari 308, get the rev-happy/raoring motor fix out of your system(plus NOTHING shifts like a gated F-car tranny!)....then come back to reality, get a 914, build a really strong motor, upgrade the suspension (all for about the price of a tuneup on the F-car) and have FUN!

Or just drop a 308 or 246 Dino engine/transmission into your 914.....(you can find rebuildable 308 engine cores for around $6k.......)

sure it did!

Abarth Carrera (about 20 made, a homologation special) and Carrera GTS (904) came with 2,0 liter 4-cam Carrera engines. (real Carreras have 4 cams ...)

and technically, the 906 was called 'Carrera 6' and it had the 2,0 6-cyl engine.

[ this historical aside concludes now ... ]

If you have issues with the way the tranny shifts, replace ALL of the shift bushings & install a Weltmeister reverse lock-out shift kit. Make certain that the shift linkage is adjusted correctly. You will notice a HUGE improvement. In fact, it feels AWESOME. Certainly much better than any 2002 mush box.
As for as a hi-rev engine swap - have you considered a Mazda 13b rotary??? They're cheap, there's lots of them, make about 150hp & rev like a SOB. Personally, for the $$$ I'd keep the type IV and send it to Jake to magically turn it into the engine porsche should have put in our teeners in the first place.

I'm really surprised we're being so hard on this guy. We've been very accepting of some pretty over the top mods before. We practically worship what Rick did with his 928 engine. And, GreekDriver's certainly not talking POS machinery. If he can pull it off more power to him.

I suppose he won't get everything he wants though. We are all hampered somewhat by the package as a whole. It's just we are more accepting of it's faults because we really value its strengths . No doubt we that love these cars are able to ignore things that more critical people won't accept. Many of us set about changing the items that we can and for the most part we are satisfied. GreekDriver just seems to want to do it all at once. I think that is where the problems will start. He's going to be undone by the rule we all tend to ignore. Only change one thing at a time.

I say good luck and keep us posted. I for one will enjoy see what you can do

Dave

Sheesh. Easy up on the guy ladies. He is excited and doesn't know all we know about the obstacles of the major mods he is contemplating. There has been some great advice in this thread. We should stick to that. "Smiliest", remember?

dude you should do a 914 limo conversion, they autocross really well.

GreekDriver: Go to http://www.kennedyeng.com and check and see if they have an adapter for you motor. They also sell clutch set ups for Porsche transmissions and are a good vendor. Many of the packages being sold by other vendors are using Kennedy Engineering stuff.

Go with the Renegade Hybrids radiator set up as it has been proven to work with V8's in Las Vegas. Be prepared to spend about $1000 on that alone. As for the intercooler forget about putting it up front. Front mounted intercoolers are great for a car with a front mounted engine. However, on a mid engine car if you front mount your intercooler you will have a massive intake tract for the air to go through before it gets to the intake manifold. The result will be tons of turbo lag - not a very desireable thing to have. Better to go with a rear trunk mounted, roof mounted or rear wheel well mounted intercooler.

In an issue of European Car magazine there was a 914 race car that was using a turbocharged audi engine and 6 speed transmission. He had to custom fabricate a lot of things but it you wouldn't have to buy an engine adapter and it would solve your "shifts poorly" problem.

Good Luck!

Alright someone that thinks along my lines.

First: Find the cheapest 914 you can find, do not hack up the nice example.
Second: cut the front and back off the car
Third: build custom dual a-arm front and rear subframes
Fourth: find any motor that you want and weld suitable mounts on the subframes
Fifth: Call Roger Sheridan and order the one peice body kits to cover it all up.

For 10k engine check out: http://www.theoldone.com/articles/badtothebone/


Get the 1UZ engine from a lexus, add the suitable amount of cash and you can spin to 10k but it will not be cheap. If your car wieghs 2000lbs you don't need a bunch of torque to drive it around town.

I don't think we are being hard on this guy at all... just realistic.

He wants something totally different than a 914.

I don't always agree with you guys on mods. I think Chebby engines belong in a Chebby et all but you do what you want and I'll do the same. After all is said and done we all still love the cars so it doesn't matter.

That said I just think our young friend here is going to blow alota money and be disappointed and in the process possibly destroy a piece of automotive history. But again he doesn't have to listen to me or anyone else, but he did ask for an opinion.

Of course you know what opinions are like, right

I find it interesting that we have three people at the same time all interested in buying a 914 and putting some other engine in it and doing a lot of other mods to it, but have yet to actually buy a car.

Frankly, for Mssr. Greek, I think Brad's answer is the best one: buy a Boxster. By the time you gut one for racing use, you won't be up a huge amount on weight, and the total outlay for the power and brakes you'll have will be far less than what it would cost to add those things to a 914. It will probably shift better, too.

Are you saying that it's the same person?

i didn't get the impression he was trying to imply that at all.

these things go in spurts, sometimes. for a while, turbo 914's were all the rage, and there were four or five in more or less active development. a couple actually got built.

i took it as a simple observation. i don't think it that unusual that several people can simultaneously want to get into 914's and go directly to modified cars or modification projects. the word is out that if you're interested in doing anything to a 914, this is the place you come to talk about it.

Ahh ok. Yeah I've actually been lurking aroudn these boards for a little while now. What happened is my mom and I go in a car accident and we needed the extra money so I let her borrow it from me and I gain interest off of it instead of some bank. She is also giving me 2k for a car. I would probably have the 924S in Tennesee right now had it not been for my new uncle who said that if the clutch went out on it it'd be like 1500 bucks. I was always thinking of either the 924 or 914 but kind of made up my mind once insurance came into thought in Cali. So I would probably have the car by now but I have to wait a month or more for a settlement.