Tonight, SHE RUNS!!!!, Initial V8 start up advice Please Options

[aircooledboy]

Well, barring any unforseen CGI (Chaotic Group Intercourse (IMG:style_emoticons/default/laugh.gif)) , I will be able to start the new V8 engine in the Black Beauty tonight. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/monkeydance.gif) I sure could use some direction on the appropriate proceedure to follow on the first run. I know this has been discussed here before, but I just ain't smart enough to seperate the ideas which apply only to air cooled vs water pumpers. I have read posts from some obviously well versed SBC folks here. Please help a brother out with a little direction here. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/pray.gif)
Thanks

[Verruckt]

Go buy an oil pump priming rod, or make one. You can gut an old distributor, and use the rod inside. You just need to have a drill with a 1/2" chuck i believe. Anyway, put the rod in the drill and down into the distributor hole to the input shaft on the oil pump (you have to take out the distributor obviously) and prime shit out of that engine. I used to stop once i saw oil coming up through the pushrods. Then bolt the distributor in and go like mad!

[DerekKim]

I don't know what procedures are before but afterwards find a nice ricer and (IMG:style_emoticons/default/aktion035.gif) on. Hehe also don't forget the camera.

[propricer]

Good luck ... would be VERY interested in your first impressions after your first drive. Have you ever ridden in a V8 914 ???

Don't use first !!!

[aircooledboy]

I drove this sucka home 900 miles from georgia before the de-zaster. I can give you my first impression: "OH FU@K YEAH!!!!!!!!!!!!" (IMG:style_emoticons/default/aktion035.gif) (IMG:style_emoticons/default/driving.gif) (IMG:style_emoticons/default/w00t.gif) (IMG:style_emoticons/default/burnout.gif)

Oil pump is all primed up already. I'm really looking for the "2000 RPM for 20 min.s" or whatever sort of advice.

[Chris H.]

A couple things:

1. I have heard you have to "burp" the cooling system a bit. Anyone remember the specifics? Something about letting it run with the cap off for a minute or two to get the air out.

2. I better come up there and help you break it in.

"Sir.... trust me... I'm a professional" (insert Ferris Bueller music here)

[aircooledboy]

Head on out my man. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/driving.gif) We are 75 mins from schaumburg, about 10 more from Naperville, about 90 from southern burbs like Orland or Palos. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/beerchug.gif)

[Chris H.]

Dood I wish I could! No time until the weekend. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/sad.gif)

Hey are you coming on Saturday to the 9:14 breakfast? I would love to see that beast and meet you! So glad this whole ordeal worked out.

Interestingly enough I think the brake fluid reservior is off of my old 2.0. I sold it to John on e-bay. Small world...

OK THREAD HIJACK OVER!!!! SORRY!!!

[GaroldShaffer]

Well....... we need an update, its 9:30am already here in Chicagoland... how did it go?????

[skline]

Well, you do need to run the engine initially at 2k+ for 20 minutes but that is the same for any engine with a new cam. The lifters will flatten out otherwise. Also, you do need to burp the water system especially the block, make sure its full before the starting of the engine or at least has lots of water in it. Rod Simpson warned me about that with mine. A friend of mine just put a new engine in his motorhome and didnt do it. He is now pulling the engine back out because of it. Had a air pocket around the cylinders and it burned one of the pistons. That is what he told me yesterday. I had never heard of that before. Good luck either way. If you already did it, let us know how it worked out.

[SLITS]

Too late, but the advice you were looking for is to run the engine at approximatley 22-2500 RPM for 20 minutes. This is to break in the new cam. The theory is that at that rpm you will be supplying the new components high oil pressure to begin the "wear in of metal surfaces". Supposedly, if you do not follow the procedure, the cam/lifters will experience galling due to lack of sufficient lubrication.

Make sure you have a forced air supply (big fan) available for blowing into the radiator, as things can get hot.

[andys]

Thought I might add a couple of things:
Jerry-rig a garden hose to the high side of your cooling system, and dischage it on the exit side of the block without the termostat in place. Don't worry about coolant just yet. Just get the water circulating through the system to help remove stubborn air pockets. You can also bleed the high points while your at it, and you can leisurely inspect the entire system. This avoids having to perform all these tasks with the motor running. When done inspecting, turn the water flow way down, and try to hook up as much stuff as possible to minimize any air entrapment.
Hook up your timing light and make ready for dialing in the timing.
Get ready to set the low speed idle circuit adjustments. Both timing and weak fuek mixture strength can cause a motor to run hot (or overheat), so it's best be prepared to make adjustments as necessary.
If you pre-stage everything, it will help keep you from running around in panic mode while the motor is running.

Andy

[phantom914]

Would it be wise to run it without the thermostat initially? I would think that this would prevent any air pockets from being trapped since the coolant would be circulating from the start, rather than being stopped by the closed thermostat and possibly trapping an air pocket until the thermostat opens.

Andrew

[Levi]

you guys are making this waaay to hard, its Not rocket science.
Just fill the block through the thermostat hole...leave open...fillthe radiator until water starts overflowing from the thermostat hole, dry off the gasket surface install thermostat and close up, top off radiator and your ready to go... (IMG:style_emoticons/default/wink.gif)
(IMG:style_emoticons/default/beerchug.gif)

[Sammy]

Hopefully you have drilled several 1/8" to 3/16" holes in the thermostat, if so leave it in and it will self vent to a point. If you haven't drilled those holes, I hope you have some good hose clamps.

The water pump will put out some serious pressure at higher rpm and if the thermostat is completely closed you can blow off hoses or even rupture them if they are not in good shape.

On a normal chebby car the heater core acts as a bypass around the thermostat so it isn't a concern. In a 914, most people don't have the heater core installed so you need to bypass somehow.

Did you run your hoses under the car or through the rockers?
if you ran them through the rockers you will need to force the water thrtough the hoses to get the air pockets out.
PITA.

[aircooledboy]

Well,. . . . .

A CGI did in fact break out in my shop last night. I would have to give last nights a show about a 6. Decent beat, but tough to dance to. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/wacko.gif)

Got last bits & pieces assembled pretty smoothly. Spent a good hour carefully filling and burping the cooling system, and I am pretty confident I was able to 98% if not 100% of the air out of the system. Time to turn the key. . . (IMG:style_emoticons/default/boldblue.gif)

I left the coil wire off first, to get the oil flowing a bit before starting. Turn the key, engine turns over nicely. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/mueba.gif) So far so good. Put the coil wire back on, time to start 'er up. Turn key, engine turns over, . . . and over. . . . and over. Hmmmmm. I smell gas. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/idea.gif) Guess I flooded it when I rolled her over w/o the coil. Pedal to floor, turn key, turn, turn, pop, turn, pop, pop, turn, VROOMMMMMM!!!!!! (IMG:style_emoticons/default/w00t.gif) YEAH BABY!!!!!!! (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smilie_pokal.gif) I run it for about a minute at 2000, shut it off. While it was running, the oil pressure is pegged at 80 psi, and I'm thinking that is probably a wiring issue. I needed to get the oil into filter and what not, but shut it off and check the oil level right away so I can make new marks on the dip stick due to the goofeyness with the hole being different than usual in the block. I do that, and wait for my wife to come out so she can hold the engine at 2000 while I sniff things out, and maybe try to ear the timing a little tighter. She comes out, I try to start again. Same issue, floods easily and quickly. I leave the key in the on position while we talk about something or other for a minute(thus fuel pump running), and now I REALLY smell gas. I get out and look at the engine, find gas dripping out of the carb in multiple places. WTF??? (IMG:style_emoticons/default/headbang.gif) Looks like the float must be stuck open. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/mad.gif) Give the bowl a few good sharp whacks with a wrench, turn on key, looks to be ok. Start her up again. Starts easier this time, Beth holds the RPMs while I just look every thing over. I look closely into carb, and it's got a drippy dick going into one of the round bowls (secondary?), but engine is running smoother as the time passes, so I decide to keep it running. I flipped the poles on the oil pressure sender, and now it looks like an actual reading, but is still about 55-60 psi. About Seven minutes in, I see one of the header pipes is starting to glow a bit. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/ohmy.gif) It was cool here last night, so the water temp was fine at all times, never getting above 190. I'm thinking this glowing business could be due to timing not being quite on, as well as probably running rich due to the gonorrhea jet, but I'm not comfortable keeping her going like that, so I shut it off. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/sad.gif)

Then I think I should check the oil, and sure enough, it smells like gas a bit, so it has become fouled with gas running through the intake. Stef couldn't come out last night, but he calls right about then for an update. I tell him the whole deal, and he's not the least bit worried about any of it. He says the header is almost certainly due to the carb being funked up, and the timing. As far as the carb, he is sure we can get it sorted out tonight, and in regard to the oil pressure, well, we will figure that out too. So, I will change my oil with about 8 minutes of running time on it, and we will attack it fresh tonight. I'm sure with my guardian master mechanic present, things will go better tonight. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/rolleyes.gif)

[Levi]

Your oil pressure is just fine!! 60 lbs on a fresh SBC is perfect.
What carb are you running? It sounds like your float level is set to high.
Don't run it until you fix the carb...but you know that... (IMG:style_emoticons/default/wink.gif)
(IMG:style_emoticons/default/beerchug.gif)

[Sammy]

Couple things:
the glowing header pipe is not good, usually means that it is running very lean or the timing is retarded way too much, or the exhaust valve isn't closing. Running rich makes the combustion and exhaust temps go down, not up. If only one pipe is glowing instead of all 8 that points to a problem with that cylinder. I'd check to make sure you can wiggle that exhaust rocker. If they are hydraulics it's hard to get one too tight but it is possible. You don't want to burn up a new valve, do you?
Doublecheck your spark plug wires while you are at it, 1-8-4-3-6-5-7-2 IIRC. Maybe you have a couple crossed? Prolly not but it doan hurt to check.

What kind of fuel pressure are you running? sounds like the pressure is too high and overcoming the float valve causing the level to get too high and overflowing through the vent. Depending on which carb you are running I'd say try and keep it around 3 to 3 1/2 psi, never over 5. You may have to reset the float level after playing with the pressure.

I'd try and nail that down before going any further.

[Levi]

Couple things:
the glowing header pipe is not good, usually means that it is running very lean or the timing is retarded way too much, or the exhaust valve isn't closing. Running rich makes the combustion and exhaust temps go down, not up. If only one pipe is glowing instead of all 8 that points to a problem with that cylinder. I'd check to make sure you can wiggle that exhaust rocker. If they are hydraulics it's hard to get one too tight but it is possible. You don't want to burn up a new valve, do you?
Doublecheck your spark plug wires while you are at it, 1-8-4-3-6-5-7-2 IIRC. Maybe you have a couple crossed? Prolly not but it doan hurt to check.

What kind of fuel pressure are you running? sounds like the pressure is too high and overcoming the float valve causing the level to get too high and overflowing through the vent. Depending on which carb you are running I'd say try and keep it around 3 to 3 1/2 psi, never over 5. You may have to reset the float level after playing with the pressure.

I'd try and nail that down before going any further.

Not that it really matters...but... (IMG:style_emoticons/default/agree.gif)
(IMG:style_emoticons/default/lol2.gif)
(IMG:style_emoticons/default/beerchug.gif)

[aircooledboy]

Thanks for all the input guys. The timing is the main suspect for the header glowing. The valves are hydraulic, and all set to 0 lash, 1/2 turn. It's possible that reason I only saw one header starting to glow because it was in the darkest spot in the engine compartment. It really was just starting to glow. If it wasn't dark in that area of the bay, I'm sure I would not have seen it, and it litteraly was gone within 2 seconds of shutting down.

The carb is a Holley double pumper 600 cfm. The fuel system is still set up exactly the way John ran it for over two years, so I will be surprised if it turns out to be pressure or adjustment related. Stef thinks it is just a stuck valve from sittting dry for 5 weeks or so. We'll find out tonight.

As far as the coolant goes, it wasn't really that hard. Hoses are external per Renegade's philosophy. I opened the turncock on the top of the radiator and filled system through rear mounted filler neck until coolant came out turncock. Closed the turncock, filled more until doesn't go down anymore. Open turncock, let air out until coolant comes out again, close it. Go from front to back thumping and shaking hoses to get air bubbles to rise. Some bubbles up through fill opening, some comes up through turncock. The fill opening is slightly elevated relative to the thermostat housing, with a direct hose running slightly downward from fill opening to thermostat, and the thermostat does have holes drilled in it. So, the air in the block should slowly rise and escape from the fill opening. I gave long periods after filling to allow for that. I expect some small amount air to still be present, but I can't really address that very easily until until the car is mo-bile.

Oh, and thanks for green light on the 60psi Levi. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/pray.gif) That was making me as nervous as any of it last night. All I know is the general rule about 10psi/1000rpm. I was afraid the 60 was a sign of trouble. The OK is good to hear.