Aternative to the current gas prices?, T. Boone Pickens uses $1.00/gal natural Gas in his truck; Wonder what it would cost to convert the 914? Options

[DRPHIL914]

http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?...Q0X01-M04KS.DTL

or

http://articles.cnn.com/2012-02-29/opinion...t?_s=PM:OPINION


when i bought my 914 i was going to go EV IF i could not get the engine running, but did get it running and thus saw the $20,000 cost to convert using LiPo batteries, so passed for the time being. however, since my son is an engineering major at USC(south carolina) this subject keeps coming up.

Hydogen, Propane, compressed natural gas, all options.

this just came up yesterday with the high gas prices, Back in minnesota all of our busses ran on propane.

so why not our 914's?

(IMG:style_emoticons/default/confused24.gif)

food for thought....

[JStroud]

Propane wouldn't help much in California, it's over $3 a gal.
I'm parking my diesel truck and using my 914 for work when I can.
My truck commute on my current job..$50 a day, $25 a day in the 914.

Jeff

[TheCabinetmaker]

That would be T. Boone Pickens, not Tbone.

[DRPHIL914]

That would be T.Boone Pickens, not Tbone.

(IMG:style_emoticons/default/av-943.gif) typo corrected


i just filled up my propane tanks at the house for $2.65/ gal.
last week,.

[underthetire]

LiPo batteries are cheap now, just sayin.

[scott_in_nh]

There isn't anyplace in the 914 I'd feel comfortable placing a propane tank.

[monkeyboy]

Propane wouldn't help much in California, it's over $3 a gal.
I'm parking my diesel truck and using my 914 for work when I can.
My truck commute on my current job..$50 a day, $25 a day in the 914.

Jeff

Me too. The poor truck is neglected now. Gets driven maybe once a week.

I have also been working from home more.

I knew a guy who used propane in his gas pickup. It was cheaper by the gallon, but I seem to remember he didn't get the mileage he got from gas either.

The most difficult part would be to get the injection set up.

[billh1963]

We are looking at wood gassification technology where I work:

Wood gas generator

Some people have adapted them for cars as well. My father was in Germany right after WWII and saw a lot of cars/trucks using this technology:

Here's a VW Beetle engine running on one:

Youtube

[Cap'n Krusty]

As I understand it, there's less energy per unit stored in LNG/Propane/Natural Gas, so your mileage, as well as your HP, would diminish. If I had to "improve" the fuel economy of a 914, I'd do a TDi conversion. Take a LONG time to recover the costs, though, with a 10-15 MPG increase.

The Cap'n

[billh1963]

Propane isn't nearly as efficient as gasoline. I remember in the early 1980's when the Beaufort County Sheriff cars were set up to be able to switch between both gasoline and propane (maybe it was natural gas). It was not economical and they went back to gasoline only.

[ThePaintedMan]

We are looking at wood gassification technology where I work:

Wood gas generator

Some people have adapted them for cars as well. My father was in Germany right after WWII and saw a lot of cars/trucks using this technology:

Here's a VW Beetle engine running on one:

Youtube

Gasification is AWESOME! Thats on my list of things to build one day. So simple, so clean, so cheap!

[rick 918-S]

In addition to the low energy, you need a large volume to get anyplace. The tank size is an issue as well. Then when they start converting to NG and get infastructure in place to actually fuel cars and trucks The guvenmnt will dig their fist into your pocket and add road taxes and lots of other taxes driving the cost well over fossil fuels.

[DRPHIL914]

LiPo batteries are cheap now, just sayin.

when i priced that 3 years ago it was going to be about $15k for enough batteries to achieve about 200 miles - now you could just shoot for about 80 miles for commuting to/from work , that would be about 1/3 of the batteries and space taken as well.

so where are the prices at now?

[underthetire]

Well, I was buying 1.5 Lipo's for my airplanes at 45.00 per battery about 3-4 years ago, now the same battery costs me $9.95 now with a higher discharge rate. A 10Cell 5.0 with super high discharge rate is about $125.00 now, it was over $600 back then, and the new ones are far better.

How many static amps and voltage would you need? I'm guessing 50 packs of the 10cell ones would be a good start? That would give you 250 amps static and 12500+ burst.

[DRPHIL914]

Well, I was buying 1.5 Lipo's for my airplanes at 45.00 per battery about 3-4 years ago, now the same battery costs me $9.95 now with a higher discharge rate. A 10Cell 5.0 with super high discharge rate is about $125.00 now, it was over $600 back then, and the new ones are far better.

How many static amps and voltage would you need? I'm guessing 50 packs of the 10cell ones would be a good start? That would give you 250 amps static and 12500+ burst.

pretty close- you are talking75% less that they were, and at a higher discharge rate etc. you would not need to do much conversion- or use either of the trunks for battery storage. just the current gas tank location and if you wanted more range, build a rack above the motor in the current engine location,

so about $5k for batteries, $$3.5k for the motor, controlers etc. plus misc supplies and this might be possible to do under 10k, get one of those west coast rollers for $500 bucks and off you go- (IMG:style_emoticons/default/idea.gif)

[andys]

A guy I worked with 30 years ago had a propane Chevy PU. Tank was 110 gal. Because he frequented Mexico (from SoCal)....when it was still safe to go there....the cost of propane was far lower than in the US. Things are way different today.

A conversion (electric, diesel, propane) is a simple ROI excersize. Run the numbers and I doubt anything short of very long term will work in one's favor, I suspect.

Andys

[VaccaRabite]

I looked at LGP and LNG conversions for my old truck in 2008.
If your car is carbed, its not difficult, and you can have multi-fuel capability. That said, in a PU or frame on body car, the tanks are easier and safer to mount then in a unibody car like a 914.

HOWEVER,
Honda (and maybe Toyota?) had introduced an LNG and propane models of the Civic, IIRC, that could be filled from a home filling station. Not cheap, but they had it for sale in some states. Which means there is a safe way to do it in a unibody car.

Zach

[DRPHIL914]

http://www.switch2hydrogen.com/h2.htm
or hydrogen?

[VaccaRabite]

A conversion (electric, diesel, propane) is a simple ROI excersize. Run the numbers and I doubt anything short of very long term will work in one's favor, I suspect.
Andys

Actually, Propane has a pretty good case, or it did in 2008.
When I ran the numbers for LNG or Propane conversion, when gas hit $4 a gallon, you started seeing quick returns. The cost to do it if you bought a kit was about $2K, and only a few hundred if you did it on your own.

The key, though, is road tax. The kits are for off road use, and the gas is not taxed. If the filling station thinks you are using the vehicle for on road use, many people were reporting that they could not get a fill. For a truck, this was not a big deal. For a 914... not many off road excursions for a 914. You would have to dismount the tanks and fill them away from the car.

Zach

[ruby914]

When I started my build, I looked at the natural gas / hydrogen option.
http://z8.invisionfree.com/ClubNARP/index.php?showtopic=5431
Started thinking about CNG again about a week or two ago.
Then I picked up some propane for the BBQ $17.
Wow, and I lost my ass on that natural gas ETF (UNG).
How can propane be so hi and the ETF so low?

I pulled this sticker off a car that was going to the crusher.