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DRPHIL914
http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?...Q0X01-M04KS.DTL

or

http://articles.cnn.com/2012-02-29/opinion...t?_s=PM:OPINION


when i bought my 914 i was going to go EV IF i could not get the engine running, but did get it running and thus saw the $20,000 cost to convert using LiPo batteries, so passed for the time being. however, since my son is an engineering major at USC(south carolina) this subject keeps coming up.

Hydogen, Propane, compressed natural gas, all options.

this just came up yesterday with the high gas prices, Back in minnesota all of our busses ran on propane.

so why not our 914's?

confused24.gif

food for thought....
JStroud
Propane wouldn't help much in California, it's over $3 a gal.
I'm parking my diesel truck and using my 914 for work when I can.
My truck commute on my current job..$50 a day, $25 a day in the 914.

Jeff
TheCabinetmaker
That would be T. Boone Pickens, not Tbone.
DRPHIL914
QUOTE(vsg914 @ Mar 1 2012, 10:36 AM) *

That would be T.Boone Pickens, not Tbone.


av-943.gif typo corrected


i just filled up my propane tanks at the house for $2.65/ gal.
last week,.
underthetire
LiPo batteries are cheap now, just sayin.
scott_in_nh
There isn't anyplace in the 914 I'd feel comfortable placing a propane tank.
monkeyboy
QUOTE(jsconst @ Mar 1 2012, 07:19 AM) *

Propane wouldn't help much in California, it's over $3 a gal.
I'm parking my diesel truck and using my 914 for work when I can.
My truck commute on my current job..$50 a day, $25 a day in the 914.

Jeff


Me too. The poor truck is neglected now. Gets driven maybe once a week.

I have also been working from home more.

I knew a guy who used propane in his gas pickup. It was cheaper by the gallon, but I seem to remember he didn't get the mileage he got from gas either.

The most difficult part would be to get the injection set up.
billh1963
We are looking at wood gassification technology where I work:

Wood gas generator

Some people have adapted them for cars as well. My father was in Germany right after WWII and saw a lot of cars/trucks using this technology:

Here's a VW Beetle engine running on one:

Youtube
Cap'n Krusty
As I understand it, there's less energy per unit stored in LNG/Propane/Natural Gas, so your mileage, as well as your HP, would diminish. If I had to "improve" the fuel economy of a 914, I'd do a TDi conversion. Take a LONG time to recover the costs, though, with a 10-15 MPG increase.

The Cap'n
billh1963
Propane isn't nearly as efficient as gasoline. I remember in the early 1980's when the Beaufort County Sheriff cars were set up to be able to switch between both gasoline and propane (maybe it was natural gas). It was not economical and they went back to gasoline only.
ThePaintedMan
QUOTE(billh1963 @ Mar 1 2012, 10:55 AM) *

We are looking at wood gassification technology where I work:

Wood gas generator

Some people have adapted them for cars as well. My father was in Germany right after WWII and saw a lot of cars/trucks using this technology:

Here's a VW Beetle engine running on one:

Youtube



Gasification is AWESOME! Thats on my list of things to build one day. So simple, so clean, so cheap!
rick 918-S
In addition to the low energy, you need a large volume to get anyplace. The tank size is an issue as well. Then when they start converting to NG and get infastructure in place to actually fuel cars and trucks The guvenmnt will dig their fist into your pocket and add road taxes and lots of other taxes driving the cost well over fossil fuels.
DRPHIL914
QUOTE(underthetire @ Mar 1 2012, 10:47 AM) *

LiPo batteries are cheap now, just sayin.



when i priced that 3 years ago it was going to be about $15k for enough batteries to achieve about 200 miles - now you could just shoot for about 80 miles for commuting to/from work , that would be about 1/3 of the batteries and space taken as well.

so where are the prices at now?
underthetire
Well, I was buying 1.5 Lipo's for my airplanes at 45.00 per battery about 3-4 years ago, now the same battery costs me $9.95 now with a higher discharge rate. A 10Cell 5.0 with super high discharge rate is about $125.00 now, it was over $600 back then, and the new ones are far better.

How many static amps and voltage would you need? I'm guessing 50 packs of the 10cell ones would be a good start? That would give you 250 amps static and 12500+ burst.
DRPHIL914
QUOTE(underthetire @ Mar 1 2012, 11:26 AM) *

Well, I was buying 1.5 Lipo's for my airplanes at 45.00 per battery about 3-4 years ago, now the same battery costs me $9.95 now with a higher discharge rate. A 10Cell 5.0 with super high discharge rate is about $125.00 now, it was over $600 back then, and the new ones are far better.

How many static amps and voltage would you need? I'm guessing 50 packs of the 10cell ones would be a good start? That would give you 250 amps static and 12500+ burst.


pretty close- you are talking75% less that they were, and at a higher discharge rate etc. you would not need to do much conversion- or use either of the trunks for battery storage. just the current gas tank location and if you wanted more range, build a rack above the motor in the current engine location,

so about $5k for batteries, $$3.5k for the motor, controlers etc. plus misc supplies and this might be possible to do under 10k, get one of those west coast rollers for $500 bucks and off you go- idea.gif
andys
A guy I worked with 30 years ago had a propane Chevy PU. Tank was 110 gal. Because he frequented Mexico (from SoCal)....when it was still safe to go there....the cost of propane was far lower than in the US. Things are way different today.

A conversion (electric, diesel, propane) is a simple ROI excersize. Run the numbers and I doubt anything short of very long term will work in one's favor, I suspect.

Andys
VaccaRabite
I looked at LGP and LNG conversions for my old truck in 2008.
If your car is carbed, its not difficult, and you can have multi-fuel capability. That said, in a PU or frame on body car, the tanks are easier and safer to mount then in a unibody car like a 914.

HOWEVER,
Honda (and maybe Toyota?) had introduced an LNG and propane models of the Civic, IIRC, that could be filled from a home filling station. Not cheap, but they had it for sale in some states. Which means there is a safe way to do it in a unibody car.

Zach

DRPHIL914
http://www.switch2hydrogen.com/h2.htm
or hydrogen?

VaccaRabite
QUOTE(andys @ Mar 1 2012, 11:58 AM) *

A conversion (electric, diesel, propane) is a simple ROI excersize. Run the numbers and I doubt anything short of very long term will work in one's favor, I suspect.
Andys


Actually, Propane has a pretty good case, or it did in 2008.
When I ran the numbers for LNG or Propane conversion, when gas hit $4 a gallon, you started seeing quick returns. The cost to do it if you bought a kit was about $2K, and only a few hundred if you did it on your own.

The key, though, is road tax. The kits are for off road use, and the gas is not taxed. If the filling station thinks you are using the vehicle for on road use, many people were reporting that they could not get a fill. For a truck, this was not a big deal. For a 914... not many off road excursions for a 914. You would have to dismount the tanks and fill them away from the car.

Zach
ruby914
When I started my build, I looked at the natural gas / hydrogen option.
http://z8.invisionfree.com/ClubNARP/index.php?showtopic=5431
Started thinking about CNG again about a week or two ago.
Then I picked up some propane for the BBQ $17.
Wow, and I lost my ass on that natural gas ETF (UNG).
How can propane be so hi and the ETF so low?

I pulled this sticker off a car that was going to the crusher.
underthetire
Hydrogen, I see a couple test cars running around here. The stuff has killed more fuel injectors than the wrecking yards! Also takes a huge tank to get any range out of the car, unless you use cryogenic hydrogen, but that's another can of worms. Not ready yet IMO.

Now, fuel cell technology is starting to really come together. Looking forward to that.

Personally, I think a tiny diesel hybrid set up would be the ticket right now. If a jetta can get 50mpg, or a Prius can get high 40's with gas, imagine what a more fuel efficient motor with the hybrid could do.
Strudelwagon
Guys, Speaking from experience (10 years in NGV Fleet and 2 years in marketing NGV) you do NOT want to convert your 914 to NG. Unless of course you want to:
-4 x your Mtce. cost hissyfit.gif
-use up all your trunks for fuel storage idea.gif
-drop more valave seats chair.gif
-spend more time on a tow truck lol-2.gif

Trust me! Bad idea screwy.gif
SW
DRPHIL914
QUOTE(underthetire @ Mar 1 2012, 12:26 PM) *

Hydrogen, I see a couple test cars running around here. The stuff has killed more fuel injectors than the wrecking yards! Also takes a huge tank to get any range out of the car, unless you use cryogenic hydrogen, but that's another can of worms. Not ready yet IMO.

Now, fuel cell technology is starting to really come together. Looking forward to that.

Personally, I think a tiny diesel hybrid set up would be the ticket right now. If a jetta can get 50mpg, or a Prius can get high 40's with gas, imagine what a more fuel efficient motor with the hybrid could do.

icon_bump.gif agree.gif

This is what I was thinking of. Enough battery for commute but electric generator for long distance. A guy in Charleston has one made in a vw bug, let me see if I can find the pictures. He use a honda generator.
ClayPerrine
I did the research to convert my pickup to dual fuel (CNG and Gasoline). The kit is about 500.00, and the tank would be 2K, not including plumbing and wiring. That would give me the ability to switch back and forth at will. The mileage is supposed to be 80% of what you get with gasoline. I work next to Love Field in Dallas, and they have a public CNG fueling station. All of the Dallas City buses and cars run on CNG, and Texas law says they have to sell to the public if asked. The cost is about 1.00 a GGE (gallon of gas equivalent). That includes road use taxes. I also looked at the cost of a home filling station. It runs 4K, and it takes 4 to 6 hours to fill. That's because you can't keep a fixed CNG tank in a residential neighborhood. So it has to compress right to the vehicle tank. The other thing is that 4k doesn't include the gas company having to install a second gas meter so they can charge the road use tax. But the GGE cost drops to about 75 to 80 cents a GGE with the home fueling.

I am still considering it for my truck, because it has the space for a tank, and it is water cooled. I would not do this to a 914.


wingnut86
Phil,

I believe much of that research has been in fuel cells, regardless of type of energy source. I do like the Hydrogen idea as well, the no-brainer being availability.

I considered a Bio-diesel Suby in the 914, as their diesel motor is a duplicate image of their gas one and will bolt right up to a conversion. Many more of these are coming in to the US since the Japanese car market was partially crushed after the meltdown. The trick with this is the percentage of "Bio" is determined on whether you have your own bio source and manufacture yourself or buy from someone close. The less true veggie oil in the mix/the worst the thing works and smells.

For those who want to experiment with EV again, I spent a good bit of time the last decade looking into it. The price for wrecked Prius cars has come down considerably. There are more than a few dismantlers that specialize in just the Prius. It has a substantial electrical system, power inverters, copper, and a regen system built in if you are interested. I was ready to pull the trigger on a wrecked car to pull one out of. Then work pulled the trigger on me mad.gif sheeplove.gif

Wingnut86


Strudelwagon
QUOTE(ClayPerrine @ Mar 1 2012, 10:02 AM) *

I did the research to convert my pickup to dual fuel (CNG and Gasoline). The kit is about 500.00, and the tank would be 2K, not including plumbing and wiring. That would give me the ability to switch back and forth at will. The mileage is supposed to be 80% of what you get with gasoline. I work next to Love Field in Dallas, and they have a public CNG fueling station. All of the Dallas City buses and cars run on CNG, and Texas law says they have to sell to the public if asked. The cost is about 1.00 a GGE (gallon of gas equivalent). That includes road use taxes. I also looked at the cost of a home filling station. It runs 4K, and it takes 4 to 6 hours to fill. That's because you can't keep a fixed CNG tank in a residential neighborhood. So it has to compress right to the vehicle tank. The other thing is that 4k doesn't include the gas company having to install a second gas meter so they can charge the road use tax. But the GGE cost drops to about 75 to 80 cents a GGE with the home fueling.

I am still considering it for my truck, because it has the space for a tank, and it is water cooled. I would not do this to a 914.


Guys, don't get me wrong. For a V8 pickup or Van it's great. I drove a E250 dedicated NGV for 5 years without a hickup. It was a factory installation and I loved it. Retro fitting an old car with 100 hp well lets just say you couldn't pull the skin off a tapioca pudding with it. The compression is too low. NGV likes 10:1 or higher. Were in our 3 cycle of conversions and the new systems are OBD2 compatible c/w feedback loop but the Big 3 are staying out of the factory builds cuz they been burned a few times.
It happens every time the price of gas jumps.
orange914
QUOTE(Cap'n Krusty @ Mar 1 2012, 07:56 AM) *

If I had to "improve" the fuel economy of a 914, I'd do a TDi conversion. Take a LONG time to recover the costs, though, with a 10-15 MPG increase.

The Cap'n


1.6 IDI diesel would be a cool conversion. bet you could see 55- 60mpg

WVO + home centrifuge = ???
914Sixer
My company van is set up for CNG and we would love to run it on cheap natural gas. The problem is there are NO CNG stations in San Antonio. The city of SA is running its fleet on natural gas but not making the product available to any one. The BIG JOKE here is the city put out about 60 ELECTRIC charging post all over town. San Antonio is about 2 million people and there are only 90 registered electric cars. What a bunch of Dumb Asses !!!!
zymurgist
QUOTE(underthetire @ Mar 1 2012, 12:26 PM) *

Personally, I think a tiny diesel hybrid set up would be the ticket right now. If a jetta can get 50mpg, or a Prius can get high 40's with gas, imagine what a more fuel efficient motor with the hybrid could do.


agree.gif

I don't understand why manufacturers are building gasoline-electric hybrids. Diesel-electric hybrids seem like a more logical choice for fuel efficiency, plus they can run on biodiesel.
damesandhotrods
QUOTE(zymurgist @ Mar 19 2012, 02:27 PM) *

QUOTE(underthetire @ Mar 1 2012, 12:26 PM) *

Personally, I think a tiny diesel hybrid set up would be the ticket right now. If a jetta can get 50mpg, or a Prius can get high 40's with gas, imagine what a more fuel efficient motor with the hybrid could do.


agree.gif

I don't understand why manufacturers are building gasoline-electric hybrids. Diesel-electric hybrids seem like a more logical choice for fuel efficiency, plus they can run on biodiesel.



I don’t understand why they’re building gas/battery hybrids. Why don’t they build them like locomotives, a small dedicated combustion engine turning a generator to provide electricity for the electric motors? Why lug batteries around?
zymurgist
QUOTE(damesandhotrods @ Mar 19 2012, 05:11 PM) *

I don’t understand why they’re building gas/battery hybrids. Why don’t they build them like locomotives, a small dedicated combustion engine turning a generator to provide electricity for the electric motors? Why lug batteries around?


Regenerative braking?

In a locomotive, the current generated by regen is dissipated as heat by resistor packs. In a hybrid car, it's stored back in the battery pack. Not sure how much added efficiency this brings to the table though.
Smitty911
QUOTE(zymurgist @ Mar 19 2012, 03:24 PM) *

QUOTE(damesandhotrods @ Mar 19 2012, 05:11 PM) *

I don’t understand why they’re building gas/battery hybrids. Why don’t they build them like locomotives, a small dedicated combustion engine turning a generator to provide electricity for the electric motors? Why lug batteries around?


Regenerative braking?

In a locomotive, the current generated by regen is dissipated as heat by resistor packs. In a hybrid car, it's stored back in the battery pack. Not sure how much added efficiency this brings to the table though.


Yes, but if you use the stock brakes there is no need for the Regenerative Braking and you would have a less complex setup and less expensive.
Bob L.
QUOTE(orange914 @ Mar 1 2012, 02:12 PM) *

QUOTE(Cap'n Krusty @ Mar 1 2012, 07:56 AM) *

If I had to "improve" the fuel economy of a 914, I'd do a TDi conversion. Take a LONG time to recover the costs, though, with a 10-15 MPG increase.

The Cap'n


1.6 IDI diesel would be a cool conversion. bet you could see 55- 60mpg

WVO + home centrifuge = ???


Now add in propane injection for more HP and fuel efficiency and you're getting somewhere, and you can do it on biodiesel.

What's WVO?
orange914
QUOTE(Bob L. @ Mar 19 2012, 06:44 PM) *

QUOTE(orange914 @ Mar 1 2012, 02:12 PM) *

QUOTE(Cap'n Krusty @ Mar 1 2012, 07:56 AM) *

If I had to "improve" the fuel economy of a 914, I'd do a TDi conversion. Take a LONG time to recover the costs, though, with a 10-15 MPG increase.

The Cap'n


1.6 IDI diesel would be a cool conversion. bet you could see 55- 60mpg

WVO + home centrifuge = ???


Now add in propane injection for more HP and fuel efficiency and you're getting somewhere, and you can do it on biodiesel.

What's WVO?

Propane Water/Methenol (washer fluid) apx $400 initial setup. Cools charge adds h.p.& mpg.
Next thing to do on my diesel. thumb3d.gif

WVO=waste vegetable oil
SVO=straight vegetable oil
WMO=waste motor oil
biodiesel=treated WVO, SVO or WMO

HYBRID is too far away from reality in refinement and expense for the average Joe. But diesel WILL run it's course first. Last year new car diesel sales UP 30% and HYBRIDS down 2.2%.
ClayPerrine
QUOTE(zymurgist @ Mar 19 2012, 05:24 PM) *

QUOTE(damesandhotrods @ Mar 19 2012, 05:11 PM) *

I don’t understand why they’re building gas/battery hybrids. Why don’t they build them like locomotives, a small dedicated combustion engine turning a generator to provide electricity for the electric motors? Why lug batteries around?


Regenerative braking?

In a locomotive, the current generated by regen is dissipated as heat by resistor packs. In a hybrid car, it's stored back in the battery pack. Not sure how much added efficiency this brings to the table though.



idea.gif

Instead of large, heavy battery packs, use a bank of large capacitors to store the electricity from braking. Then discharge the caps for acceleration. Make the engine large enough so that it can keep the car moving down the highway, with a little left over to keep the caps charged. When you need acceleration, discharge the caps. Plus you get the benefit of the engine running at a steady state all the time. The intake, valve timing, fuel mixture and ignition can be optimized for that exact RPM, instead of the compromise needed for acceleration an deceleration.
orange914
QUOTE(ClayPerrine @ Mar 19 2012, 07:23 PM) *



idea.gif

Instead of large, heavy battery packs, use a bank of large capacitors to store the electricity from braking. Then discharge the caps for acceleration. Make the engine large enough so that it can keep the car moving down the highway, with a little left over to keep the caps charged. When you need acceleration, discharge the caps. Plus you get the benefit of the engine running at a steady state all the time. The intake, valve timing, fuel mixture and ignition can be optimized for that exact RPM, instead of the compromise needed for acceleration an deceleration.


thumb3d.gif

What kind of generative brake sources are out there?
ClayPerrine
QUOTE(orange914 @ Mar 19 2012, 09:32 PM) *

QUOTE(ClayPerrine @ Mar 19 2012, 07:23 PM) *



idea.gif

Instead of large, heavy battery packs, use a bank of large capacitors to store the electricity from braking. Then discharge the caps for acceleration. Make the engine large enough so that it can keep the car moving down the highway, with a little left over to keep the caps charged. When you need acceleration, discharge the caps. Plus you get the benefit of the engine running at a steady state all the time. The intake, valve timing, fuel mixture and ignition can be optimized for that exact RPM, instead of the compromise needed for acceleration an deceleration.


thumb3d.gif

What kind of generative brake sources are out there?


I was thinking big 160 hp pancake motors to replace the brakes on all 4 corners.

Kinda like this Electric Mini

02loftsmoor
for one thing T Boon is using Naural Gas, in his car, I've met the man. and I'm in volved with Waste Managments fleet conversion to Natural gas, "CNG"
The aircooled engine Will not take the 1400+ tenps the fuel burns.
The other problem is movies and the news, every thing explodes. CNG fuel systems when installed correctly are very safe.
gasoline igniton to oxygen mix .1 to .99% 87 octane
nautral gas igniton to oxygen mix .8 to .14% 104-108 octane
Wes
02loftsmoor
there is a couple of CNG stations in San Antonio, I know there is one a the Air Port. and the City is running the Refuse trucks on Natural Gas, and your city buses are CNG




QUOTE(914Sixer @ Mar 1 2012, 10:53 PM) *

My company van is set up for CNG and we would love to run it on cheap natural gas. The problem is there are NO CNG stations in San Antonio. The city of SA is running its fleet on natural gas but not making the product available to any one. The BIG JOKE here is the city put out about 60 ELECTRIC charging post all over town. San Antonio is about 2 million people and there are only 90 registered electric cars. What a bunch of Dumb Asses !!!!

02loftsmoor
did you get the oil leak repaired on your 6 ?



QUOTE(ClayPerrine @ Mar 1 2012, 01:02 PM) *

I did the research to convert my pickup to dual fuel (CNG and Gasoline). The kit is about 500.00, and the tank would be 2K, not including plumbing and wiring. That would give me the ability to switch back and forth at will. The mileage is supposed to be 80% of what you get with gasoline. I work next to Love Field in Dallas, and they have a public CNG fueling station. All of the Dallas City buses and cars run on CNG, and Texas law says they have to sell to the public if asked. The cost is about 1.00 a GGE (gallon of gas equivalent). That includes road use taxes. I also looked at the cost of a home filling station. It runs 4K, and it takes 4 to 6 hours to fill. That's because you can't keep a fixed CNG tank in a residential neighborhood. So it has to compress right to the vehicle tank. The other thing is that 4k doesn't include the gas company having to install a second gas meter so they can charge the road use tax. But the GGE cost drops to about 75 to 80 cents a GGE with the home fueling.

I am still considering it for my truck, because it has the space for a tank, and it is water cooled. I would not do this to a 914.

pete-stevers
this is a cool subject...it is the reason i keep a 79 rabbit as a 1.6 instead of popping a big 2.0 in it
It is a factor in my thoughts on my next 914 build...skip the 3.2 six
I am thinking how much energy can be efficiently squeezed out of a 1.7
or ...a horrible thought... a turbo desiel
fuel pricing is becoming a motivating factor in purchasing autos.....


"What will we do when the river runs dry"
Madswede
I agree, interesting topic. I like how it's mostly staying on the original subject of the practical, "guy buying gas at the pump" economics.

In that vein, some of the terminally bored might be interested to know that this was one of the hotter topics when I was a graduating Chemical Engineer back in 1995. At the time, the AIChE (American Institute of ChemE's) had as their annual "contest problem" a conceptual design problem for a chemical plant that would take methane and convert it to methanol for fuel for automobiles.

The premise, as I recall, was to determine if the plant could be profitable (defined in this context as a 15% internal rate of return) with the average price of a US gallon of gas sustained at $5. Sounds a bit too prescient, doesn't it? dry.gif

Anyway, as a simplification of the problem we were allowed to assume virtually unlimited supply of natural gas, independent of other economic pressures and competition from demand, but it still came with a non-linear cost per unit of gas ... which is how it would work anyway. My solution? Well ... if you could put up $150-300 million or so blink.gif you could be making lots of money (if everything remained stable) in about 10 years. Don't laugh, I actually got an A in that class and the Prof submitted it to the national judges. They balked at the price tag, dooming me to a career in federal government service where things like "cost" and "hundreds of millions" don't really mean the same as to private corporations ... damn short-sighted bastards. rolleyes.gif

Having said all that, you can bet that someone, somewhere, is looking very hard at this. And it won't take a genius to figure out that it's someone with LOTS of natural gas reserves. According to some quick searching, the US is in 6th place over all with about 7% of the world's total, but what really matters is who's got more than the US: Qatar, Iran, China, Russia are all in there, with Russia at #1. I think China is in fact already making and running methanol in their cars - but I think they're getting methanol from coal (which they have loads of as well) to use it up before going to natural gas. Of course, one can get methanol from biomass too ... just about any source of methane will do. [insert fart jokes here]

Methanol has some pretty significant advantages over straight-up CNG, most significantly it's higher available energy per tank due to its higher density as a liquid vs. a gas at STP (not energy density, actual density). That means, of course, that one can go much further on a single tank. (As a result of this physical density difference, methanol has a higher energy density per unit volume than methane does because of it's higher physical density ... unless you liquify the natural gas to LPG, which has some issues with keeping it a liquid and not exploding with a BLEVE under some relatively common automobile accident conditions. Interestingly enough, the specific energy, as in energy per unit mass, is higher for methane than methanol, ethanol, other natural gas blends with propane/methane, and even gasoline and diesel. But hydrogen gas beats 'em all by a LOT ... it's just hard and dangerous to keep liquified, dammitall)

So if you ask me, we are going to live in Interesting Times for the next 50-100 years or so.
02loftsmoor
The USA is the 3rd largest producer of Natural gas in the world, 8 times more gas the the Saudis
johannes
I watched this video yesterday...


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aIFFFGf1ZRE


After five minutes I thought "this guy is an idiot". I don't know him, but it seems this guy is quite rich, proof you can get rich even when beeing a moron.
SLITS
Pedal Cars will make a comeback!!!
ClayPerrine
Nope. It is sitting in the garage, waiting for me to finish fixing our BMW (Blown head gasket on a 540i V8).

Then I have to convert it to EFI as well. Ethanol ate the seals in the MFI pump.

Clay

QUOTE(02loftsmoor @ Mar 19 2012, 11:18 PM) *

did you get the oil leak repaired on your 6 ?



QUOTE(ClayPerrine @ Mar 1 2012, 01:02 PM) *

I did the research to convert my pickup to dual fuel (CNG and Gasoline). The kit is about 500.00, and the tank would be 2K, not including plumbing and wiring. That would give me the ability to switch back and forth at will. The mileage is supposed to be 80% of what you get with gasoline. I work next to Love Field in Dallas, and they have a public CNG fueling station. All of the Dallas City buses and cars run on CNG, and Texas law says they have to sell to the public if asked. The cost is about 1.00 a GGE (gallon of gas equivalent). That includes road use taxes. I also looked at the cost of a home filling station. It runs 4K, and it takes 4 to 6 hours to fill. That's because you can't keep a fixed CNG tank in a residential neighborhood. So it has to compress right to the vehicle tank. The other thing is that 4k doesn't include the gas company having to install a second gas meter so they can charge the road use tax. But the GGE cost drops to about 75 to 80 cents a GGE with the home fueling.

I am still considering it for my truck, because it has the space for a tank, and it is water cooled. I would not do this to a 914.


jtg
Gasoline? Propane? Natural gas? Not for me! I just went over the two year mark without buying any gas for my 914. ( I still buy for my wife's SUV now and then, 1000 miles a year.)

Info on my car: http://www.evalbum.com/3439 It's too much fun driving the 914 that we just don't drive the gas car anymore. Just another option open to 914 drivers.

Jim
ThePaintedMan
QUOTE(ClayPerrine @ Mar 19 2012, 10:23 PM) *


idea.gif

Instead of large, heavy battery packs, use a bank of large capacitors to store the electricity from braking. Then discharge the caps for acceleration. Make the engine large enough so that it can keep the car moving down the highway, with a little left over to keep the caps charged. When you need acceleration, discharge the caps. Plus you get the benefit of the engine running at a steady state all the time. The intake, valve timing, fuel mixture and ignition can be optimized for that exact RPM, instead of the compromise needed for acceleration an deceleration.


This is exactly what the Toyota TS030 was equipped with at Le Mans this year. Google it, very cool. In theory, battery-electric hybrids are most efficient/useful because they capitalize on the majority of driving done in the U.S. - around town or stop and go. If you have a plug-in like the newest Prius or Volt (if you can look past the awful styling), you have the ability to run all day on electricity alone. Convert the power to fluid units, and it works out to be about 100 m.p.g in most areas. Of course the flipside of that is the majority of energy produced in the U.S. still comes from fossil fuels, namely coal.

Whether you "agree" with where cars are heading, you have to admit that the push has stimulated technology development to heights we never thought were possible. I still say if you want to make cars more efficient, strip EVERYTHING out of them - leather, A/C. A Prius could probably do 90-100 mpg no sweat if it weren't such a pig of a car. Thats why I appreciate the simplicity of 914s. But times have changed and I would wager most people would never go back to the days of roll-down windows and no a/c.
broomhandle
its about what fuel is around.

i grew up on diesels, but after katrina hit, no more diesels. however the past 8 years.... bio diesel. runs better in a diesel motor. and its cheaper.

as for alt fuels. E85 gets worse gas mpg, and is only in certain areas. but is better for the air...

hydrogen is the wayto go. but you would have to make your own for right now, no infostructure.

I have a 914 that is 50% done converted to EV. the problem is batteries. they cost so much and do not last for very long charge up/down. plus the range sucks. but still going to complete it, as soon as i can gte some batteries....

i think the best option is.... gasoline....

or wait, bicycles....
broomhandle
QUOTE(ThePaintedMan @ Jul 12 2012, 06:56 PM) *

QUOTE(ClayPerrine @ Mar 19 2012, 10:23 PM) *




This is exactly what the Toyota TS030 was equipped with at Le Mans this year. Google it, very cool.



and the Audi won.... E-tron. with regen braking.

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