Why aren't 914's worth more $$$? Options

[65tuxedo]

When I decided that I wanted a 914, I did not find them to be cheap anywhere. Searched Craigslist and Ebay for a while before finding one that was what I wanted. Paid more than it cost new probably.

I intend to sell it for more. Been enjoying owning and selling fun cars for 45 years, so my intention is not just a wish or a guess.

Maybe everyone on these 914 boards should raise their prices!!If we control 99% of the cars as suggested, we could also control the prices.
Just saying...

[mepstein]

"If we control 99% of the cars as suggested, we could also control the prices."

If we make up the majority of the sellers then it follows that we also make up the majority of the buyers. So it's doubtful that we are going to be fooled by our own pricing scheme.

[gothspeed]

"If we control 99% of the cars as suggested, we could also control the prices."

If we make up the majority of the sellers then it follows that we also make up the majority of the buyers. So it's doubtful that we are going to be fooled by our own pricing scheme.

+1 .......... lol ........... (IMG:style_emoticons/default/laugh.gif) ........... (IMG:style_emoticons/default/beerchug.gif)

[Laura-4-Lyfe]

Summer, 1998

I am 19 and I am bored with my 280z. We had been together for three years at this point and I was young and restless. I needed something new. The search began. After a month, which is an interminable amount of time when you are at this age, I narrow my choices down to three.

First up is a 1974 914. It is orange and looking back on it now a bit of a hack job. In my eyes she is beautiful. She is the German princess bringing giant steins of beer which I have been dreaming about since I was 15. Sun faded orange paint wrapped around a cracked desert interior. I could see all the businessmen I remember from growing up in LA driving this car. I wanted to be one of them.

Choice two is a 1965 El Camino. This is Detroit Steel at its finest. She is sporting a 350 with a three speed transmission. The shifter is on the column and I have to dig the owner’s manual out of the glove box to figure out where the gears are. It was a test drive for the ages. This is the kind of car my dad would be proud of.

The third runner up was a slightly younger girl from the UK. She was a 1980 British racing green Triumph TR7. I could only imagine all of the pretty rich girls flocking to me as I pulled up to school in this beauty. She had a tan convertible top and a tan interior. Everything looked mint. I could only hope a fraction of the British class this car offered would rub off on me. I wanted to be James Bond.

Each of these cars were for sale for the same princely sum of 3000 hard earned American dollars. After an agonizing week of beach volleyball and booze I came to a decision. I took my money and I purchased the El Camino.

Looking back on everything now this was the right decision. There was no way I would have been able to keep either of the other cars on the road through college. The El Camino not only made it through college but is still with me to this day. How this happened? I can not say. I was not very nice to the poor girl. But I regretted not purchasing that 914. It haunted my dreams. The few I would see on the road would taunt me. I swear their drivers would sneer at me. They knew what I had given up.

Fast forward to October of last year. The stars aligned and almost 14 years later I purchased a 1971 914 - 4. I still walk into my garage and I am surprised it is there. This has been my dream car since I let that one go back in 1998. I do not care how much it is worth.

[65tuxedo]

The "scheme" wouldn't affect us. It would only make a diff to newcomers. Maybe we aren't that hard to fool.

[larryM]

. yep - hope and thrill spring eternal;

i migrated to the 914 via VW bugs, then Corvairs,

then - one day in 1976 my bro said he wanted to import and sell his "special" 914-6 so he could buy a 230SL

one ride - i fell in love - i still own it

- i started racing it in 1992 - then made it "PCA show eligible" in 2005

it is still a thrilling experience to zoom around the mountain roads, revel in the full-chat of the webers at 7200, and feel glued to the 2-lane blacktop beneath

great thrills and satisfaction - except i don't often do it anymore

- 2 hrs in that Scheel seat is about all i can handle - no more enduros for this aging human chassis

meanwhile i've appreciated sojurns with another dozen 914's, spent thousands, and learned too much that is somewhat irrelevant to anything modern

i have driven a Boxster tiptronic - i think i couuld swap in a heartbeat

[scotty b]

"If we control 99% of the cars as suggested, we could also control the prices."

If we make up the majority of the sellers then it follows that we also make up the majority of the buyers. So it's doubtful that we are going to be fooled by our own pricing scheme.

Oh no you don't. How dare you try and bring logic into this discussion (IMG:style_emoticons/default/mad.gif)

[unpolire]

yep - hope and thrill spring eternal;

i have driven a Boxster tiptronic - i think i could swap in a heartbeat

A friend had a rental car company with unusual cars like an Aston Martin Lagonda, Series Land Rovers, BMW Cabrios, and Boxsters. Rented a Boxster 5-speed for a date night. My wife always hated our 1971 914-4. The Boxster was everything I thought that the 914 could have been. Wife loved it. The new Boxster "S" is probably perfect. Our 15-year old has selected the 1972 914-4 for his first car, passing over a BMW 633CSi, Alfa Romeo Spider Veloce, or Mazda RX-7 Convertible already in the driveway. Says a lot!

[rwilner]

Here's why I bought a 914--

I've always owned fun cars since I could drive. I got married and traded my GTI VR6 for a honda accord 5 speed.

Driving the accord was like driving a toaster.

My wife knew I couldn't stand it and we talked about getting a fun car as a DD. I looked at audis, BMWs, used late model 911s (way too impractical no matter how hard Porsche pushes "Porsche Everyday." I couldn't fit a set of golf clubs in an 03 911 without major contortions.)

I found a 914 and paid for it in cash about 25% of what it would have cost to trade in the accord for a BMW, and I kept the accord. As a bonus, I get to work on the car, which I discovered I enjoy almost as much as driving it. What I spend in parts equals the difference in maintenance and insurance I would have had to pay if I had bought the higher priced german car.

Everyone justifies the purchase differently, this worked for us...getting the 914 was actually the most economical way for me to satisfy my need for a fun car.

When (if) it comes time to sell, I'm sure I'll be able to get at least what I paid for it.

[carr914]

Summer, 1998

I am 19 and I am bored with my 280z. We had been together for three years at this point and I was young and restless. I needed something new. The search began. After a month, which is an interminable amount of time when you are at this age, I narrow my choices down to three.

First up is a 1974 914. It is orange and looking back on it now a bit of a hack job. In my eyes she is beautiful. She is the German princess bringing giant steins of beer which I have been dreaming about since I was 15. Sun faded orange paint wrapped around a cracked desert interior. I could see all the businessmen I remember from growing up in LA driving this car. I wanted to be one of them.

Choice two is a 1965 El Camino. This is Detroit Steel at its finest. She is sporting a 350 with a three speed transmission. The shifter is on the column and I have to dig the owner’s manual out of the glove box to figure out where the gears are. It was a test drive for the ages. This is the kind of car my dad would be proud of.

The third runner up was a slightly younger girl from the UK. She was a 1980 British racing green Triumph TR7. I could only imagine all of the pretty rich girls flocking to me as I pulled up to school in this beauty. She had a tan convertible top and a tan interior. Everything looked mint. I could only hope a fraction of the British class this car offered would rub off on me. I wanted to be James Bond.

Each of these cars were for sale for the same princely sum of 3000 hard earned American dollars. After an agonizing week of beach volleyball and booze I came to a decision. I took my money and I purchased the El Camino.

Looking back on everything now this was the right decision. There was no way I would have been able to keep either of the other cars on the road through college. The El Camino not only made it through college but is still with me to this day. How this happened? I can not say. I was not very nice to the poor girl. But I regretted not purchasing that 914. It haunted my dreams. The few I would see on the road would taunt me. I swear their drivers would sneer at me. They knew what I had given up.

Fast forward to October of last year. The stars aligned and almost 14 years later I purchased a 1971 914 - 4. I still walk into my garage and I am surprised it is there. This has been my dream car since I let that one go back in 1998. I do not care how much it is worth.

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AND

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[william1764]

" the PCA 911 crowd still mostly looks askance at us"

This is bullshit and its time for folks on this forum to put this one in the dustbin.

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[Laura-4-Lyfe]

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AND

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Thanks for the welcome. These are the only two pictures I have at the moment.
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[Pat Garvey]

The early 70s was an odd time for cars. Even for 911s.

The 914 continues to have an odd following. I don't get why a 914/6 as rare as it is goes for $35M+. Have you driven a stock 2.0 914/6?

You look at a 2002 911 today and get a ton of technology for $25-30M. Its hard to think a /4 will ever get there, but I could be very wrong.

The fact is, every 914 owner I meet loves to drive. Period. I could care less about the value... my widow can figure that out.

It's that "rev forever sound" of the six. Nothing beats the sound of an early 911 motor. It's its own sound & nothing else (vintage compares...OKI, maybe a four cam).

[mepstein]

The fours are really a gateway drug to the six's.

My one ride in a 3.2 was like putting a needle in my arm.

[sbsix]

Pat, you hit the nail on the head. I first heard that air cooled 6 sound when I was 16 and it still gives me the same thrill almost 45 years later. It's the combination intake/mechanical/exhaust sound mix that brings out a smile every time.

[74porsche914]

Wow! Haven't looked at this thread I started lately and really got some good entertainment. Thanks 914 World!

[Pat Garvey]

I haven't had a rant in a while......

Why are 914 values lower than they should be? Several reasons, but not what everyone would think.

When I bought my 72 it cost me nearly a half years' wage. It was boxy, underpowered, and not cheap. After driving the TR6, which roasted mt feet, and being in a 6 month wait line for a 240Z (which arrived in the wrong color!) I made the committment to the 914. It was serious fun, and still is. I still own it.

That being said, here are the reasons why I feel the 914 fails to appreciate. Many of you will not like what I have to say.

The value of vintage cars (any) is determined by the desire to own one, demographics (including age of the buyer), and the condition of the car and its originality. Buyers today consider them an investment (NOT INCLIDING THIS FORUM), and expect to reap a profit at some time.

Modifications, for the most part, are detrimental to the value of the car, unless specifically condoned or performed by the factory. Ex:, a factory applied M471 package, or the factory parts supplied to a dealer for installation is OK, so long as it is documented.

As I said earlier, many of you will not be happy with what I have to say here, but it partially explains the lack of appreciation of the 914. Some examples, in no particular order.....

Six conversions - does the VIN/COA support it?
Carbs on a four - is it a euro version, with VIN/COA to match?
Shaved front side markers - see above.
Suby motors? Why?
GT converted bodywork?

These are just a few of the irreversible changes that will destroy collectability of the 914.

Raby motor, Interior changes, wheels, stereo systems can all be reversed, but when you make changes that cannot be reversed you've destroyed the 914's collectablility, and its associated sale value.

I don't know what the numbers of survivors is, be I'd be that it isn't higher than 60% of the original numbers produced (sixes excluded). That leaves about 65,000 (at best) 914-4s in the world. Those are low production numbers, and should produce higher resale values. Except.....too many have been modified beyond redemption. A four with working/intact FI is potentially collectible. A four with carbs and the FI system long gone is not. A six with a 2.0, or even an upgrade to a 2.2/2.4 is collectible. A six with a 3.2/3.6 is lost.

So, before I end my rant, and arouse the wrath of others, here is why the value of 914's does not raise in my opinion - the car lends itself to modification. Not a bad thing to the modifier who could care less about value, but a detriment to the collectability. I, as an original owner of an unmodified 914 don't care. My values will continue to rise. I also applaud those who've spent the bucks to make what they want a 914 to be - just think you've missed an opportunity.

Rant over.
Pat

[unpolire]

"Why are 914 values lower than they should be? Several reasons, but not what everyone would think.

The value of vintage cars (any) is determined by the desire to own one, demographics (including age of the buyer), and the condition of the car and its originality. Buyers today consider them an investment (NOT INCLIDING THIS FORUM), and expect to reap a profit at some time."

Modifications, for the most part, are detrimental to the value of the car, unless specifically condoned or performed by the factory. Ex:, a factory applied M471 package, or the factory parts supplied to a dealer for installation is OK, so long as it is documented."
Pat

I tip my hand here, as a serious collector with more cars than I dare whisper (lest there be gasps of disbelief), by agreeing with Pat, on not just 914s in general, but ALL classic cars. I struggle with correcting every car I buy back to its original state when manufactured, unless there were important manufacturer upgrades or recalls. I am happy to see so many incredible engineers, designers, fabricators, and tinkerers doing amazing things to 914s, many of which would be lost to the crusher if not for this forum's incredible resourcefulness. So those happily saved personal masterpieces, every one, that have escaped the ravages of time, neglect, and rust, make me smile. I will keep original cars intact, as I could never be a dismantler, and have expended tens of thousands restoring cars that my professionals just shake their heads at, because preservation is my calling. IF I find a 914 missing its major components or with steel flares already attached, I will finish it as if the factory had continued production, rather than pass it by or see it crushed like so many in years past. I'm for the best of both worlds!

[carr914]

Some good points Pat, but a argument could be made that 356 "Outlaws" are Collectable. I also see a market for 914-6 Conversions after the Economy comes back.

[DBCooper]

Pat, why so dour? Can I make an observation? You're assuming that an important reason to own one of these cars is appreciation, with a bonus of some polite late afternoon pleasure driving ("oh my, not too fast now, dear") with the wife. I point out, once again, that there are other better reasons to own a car. I don't WANT an MGA, no matter what the ROI. Nor a 356 or gold bullion, for that matter. I own a 914 for fun, and no other reason. And quite frankly I'd consider any car restricted to 165 tires to be too boring for consideration, and an upgrade to 185's is way short of a walk on the wild side.

If you don't understand the idea of a Subaru motor ("why?") I can explain. It's exciting. Some people like to ride screaming roller coasters. Other people prefer polite conversation in front of the TV. When I want to blow off some steam, get a few thrills, your car wouldn't deliver. Mine does. The best ROI I've ever found. Well, short of roller coasters.

And once again I say that the resale value of 914's is NOT low, it's exactly what people, buyers and sellers, have agreed that it should be. You bought it for not much so why do you complain when you sell it for not much? If you didn't have any fun in between that may be a terrible deal, but if you had fun it was excellent, and the more fun the better the deal. So what's the problem? Stop polishing the thing all day and go have some fun!


Edit: Let me point out one other thing, Pat. You say "These are just a few of the irreversible changes that will destroy collectability of the 914." That's not true. It may affect the collectability of THAT 914, but not 914's a whole. If anything someone taking a car out of the collector's market will increase the value of all remaining cars. Right? So I've done you a favor and increased the value of your car, meaning I deserve a little thanks, don't you think? A little 'keep up the good work'?

Edit #2: You're also assuming that a Subaru motor is an irreversible modification. It's not. The only metal removed from the car is to add the radiator, and putting that back to original is LESS work than typical 914 rust repair. Rust repair that will also diminish originality. My car could be put back to stock quite easily, but who wants that? That's crazy talk.


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