Just been wondering why 914's aren't worth more moolah. In my opinion there a lot more practical then british sport cars and other sports cars from the period. Is it because there always in the shadow of the 911? Really I'm grateful there affordable or I would not own one!

Not planin on selling mine so price really doesn't matter. Just curious.

mass produced, poorly maintained, costly to restore when compared to finished value.

Interesting question. I think their day will come but right now the collectors are into the 356's. When that supply dries up at sensible money I think attention will turn to 914's although there will always be the VW hangup which will ensure they never get to 356 status unless it's a 914/6. Like you say though. Cheap fun as long as you can do a lot of the work yourself.

Ouch....but true.

My 2 cents:
- Off design profile for a Porsche or even a car of that era ("oh that boxy one?")
- Sparten interior
- VW parts interchange
- Low first cost

That is a good question. For me, I went into this not caring about if or when they appreciate. It was very affordable fun, and still is. Not planning on selling mine, but I agree the VW stigma may always hold the value down compared to what 914 enthusiasts think it should be. Also, they were mass produced as an entry level car with "anemic performance" I believe it was said in a car magazine's review.

I had parked my teener in front of the door to one of the rest stops on I-95 between DC and New York. Two late twenty early thirtyish guys were coming out of the door and saw my car. One says to the other "That's Volkswagen's idea of what a Porsche should be". There's the stigma, after all of these years!

same question comes up regularly on the British forums too

1. see answer above - mass produced etc

- maybe our great grandkids will cash in on the thing if we pass it along wrapped in visqueen

2. the 914 cars appeal mostly to a demographic that is gettin' on in age, and never had much moola to spend on hobby cars and still doesn't - if we'd had the money, we'd had a 911

914s were never really "highly sought after" when new

- they are tedious to work on, were made before rust-proofing was important, and were comparative slugs in the road test comparisons of the day against similarly priced sportscars - "adequate" is the best that most magazines could say

- the VW stigma is mostly a shibboleth we've perpetuated in our own circles to cover up the uninspired acceptance of the 914 since its debut - the PCA 911 crowd still mostly looks askance at us, but that's only an in-Porsche-house artifact irrelevant to the larger sportscar market of comparative alternatives

3. a modern sportscar - Miata for example - runs circles around 'em in every measureable way - parts are cheap & everywhere - just like they were for 914s & MGs 15-20 yrs ago, - $2500 miatas have A/C & heat that works, no oily smells, a top you can manipulate from the driver seat, 25-30 mpg on regular, 25-50% more horsepower - etc etc -

AND the girlfriend or wife will agree to ride and BE SEEN in it,

- cheap newer used sportscars, & ricer coupes, appeal to the younger demographic that is just coming into hobby money, - and also to the daily commuter & college kid population that wants a combo of open-air fun and reliable utility - and they are welcome at friday nite drifting events - no entry fees - lots of FUN FUN FUN

- and cheap newer used sportscars are attractive to old guys like me who just want all above "daily driving fun" and no hassles - take a look at the average Miata Club owner and weekend tourer with the wife in the passenger seat - gray hair & retired - auto maintenance means writing a $35 check at the SpeedyLube once every 10,000 miles and passing smog every 2 yrs

- yes, most of us old grays in Miatas could afford to own several 914s, 240Zs, MGs or Alfas instead of one Miata or MR2 or Honda - - but why?

(ah, maybe I know the answer - we gotta have several 914s & MGs just to have one that will run on the day we want to use it)

DISCLOSURE - I own a 914/6-GT since 1976, a 99 Miata, a 63 MGB racer/street legal, a Manx and 2 Hondas - I have owned at least 10 914s and as many MGs, 3 XK Jaguars, several Triumphs, 3 911s, and a host of other sometimes drivable sportscars

most days i grab the Miata keys



- .

I think that if you compair the resale cost difference between a 914-4 verses a 914-6 the VW Stigma appears to be directed more towards the flat 4 engine then the car it's self. Personally I don't care I'm having too much fun just driving mine to worry about what it's worth.

Many of these cars are driver quality. They are nice but used. Many of the cars we see in our classifieds are nice maintained drivers. The top quality cars with nicer than average paint, clean, clean interiors and solid no rust cars (maybe had surface rust that was properly repaired) are commanding good prices. The 6's will always from here on bring top dollar but I think the cream of the crop 4's are doing well. If you want to sell any car for top dollar you need to make it stand out from the rest.

" the PCA 911 crowd still mostly looks askance at us"

This is bullshit and its time for folks on this forum to put this one in the dustbin.

Perceived as an entry level car, with a bunch of cheap VW parts, lacking power compared to the 911s, a totally spartan interior, and shaped pretty much like a fridge which fell over and mass produced. Did I miss anything?

Some Good Points

Remember the OP mentioned British Cars. MGs & TRs got abused, were poorly maintained etc as well.

I have to mostly agree with Rick about most 914s if restored are done to "Driver" level, which while a good buy, is not the "Concours" Money Level. Even then 914 Concours cars are not following the big upward path - yet?( did you see the results on the 911s @ Goodings)

Hang on. Some of those reasons sounds like "begging the question" to me. Wouldn't the quality of restorations be a result of the market price, i.e., the relatively low return on the investment, and not the other way around?

Aesthetics and performance is another dubious reason: Some are old enough to remember when 356 was a "bathtub" porsche. (also underpowered). It took a convergence of factors over quite a few years for those cars to become so desirable. Most importantly, I think, were age, No. produced, and James Dean.

I'd like to compare apples with apples. MG comes to mind, and cars like the once ubiquitous MGB, etc. I don't follow that kind of thing closely but it seems to me that if the prices of "british midlands group" sports cars from the 1970's have exceeded 914 it is only fairly recently. Many of these cars were so poorly designed and built (in my opinion, no offense, please) that their survival ratio might be pretty low -- thus scarce.

I have never made a dime on a brit car. My experience with them is the owners don't value them. I mean they seem to sell nice cars cheap because they have to or no one would buy them. I had a Cali rust free 59 MGA with a fresh interior, nice paint and trim and a fresh bored out 5 main engine. I had no interest when selling that car above
$ 8000.00. Sad.. Same with Beetles. I have one of the most solid 66 Bugs from Cali I have ever seen. I know the history. I painted the car for the P.O. 16 years ago. Tried to sell it, no interest at $ 6000.00. There are too many patch up rust buckets that look good on the surface selling cheap.

There is no money to be made restoring cars and selling them in this market. If your doing it, do it because you like to not as an investment. Just have fun with it. The market will come around in time.

Similar experiences and I agree with your conclusions, possibly excepting a special model that you luck into buying below market. That's true for anything though.

What I think we're saying is that 914 is not particularly underpriced given its original value, No. produced, and vintage. Yes?

I concur with the $2500 Miata bit. If I ever buy/build another 2 seater that is gonna be it......why? CHEEP PARTS, a decent engine/trans and a rust resistant no slop chassis.

IMHO we are living in the "Barrett Jackson" era. It is rare to find any vehicle that was actually driven that is worth a fraction of the climate-controlled garage-kept specimens. Teeners are at a significant disadvantage considering their mixed heritage and rust prone components.

In all honesty, how many people do you know that have ever gotten ALL their money back out of a restoration? Buy high, sell low is my motto.

I would much rather drive my pieces of and have a blast than to dust it off every Sunday only to turn out the garage light and wave goodbye to it until the next Sunday.

The 914 was expensive, it was always saddled with the I want the -6 for the -4 price. There were plenty of MGBs TR-4s et-al available on the used market, so there were more I had one, my uncle had one and all of that. I think what hurt the value was the 240-260-280z series. The other way to increase used car value is having it in a movie or tv show, which wasn’t a success either.

Well said and I fully agree. Values will climb as more and more cars are sacrificed to repair others. Rust has taken its toll as well. Most cars are heading to Holland and Germany where their long-term collectibility due to their relative rarity is recognized. If they had all been 6-cylinders, the stigma would have been gone. It's a great "modern" design with outstanding balance lacking only 100-200 hp to be superlative. Disclaimer: I am a serious collector with tens of marques from Italy, the US, and Germany, and the 914 is the lowest-powered of the group, but I appreciate its neat concept and acceptance of modern upgrades in powerplants and chassis refinements. Thanks, Porsche!

I agree unpolire. There is a little bit of magic with the 914. I'm no collector, but I have a 930LE and a daily drive 944S2. But the 914 I can do all the work myself. It has technology I can understand and deal with in my own garage. I enjoy the journey working on the 914 as much as the destination.
I would like to think that in ten years time the 914 will become a cult car like the Beetle. Looking at the various forums the process is well under way and will accelerate as more are scrapped and more are brought up to driven and well maintained standard.

I can't speak for the legitimacy of the alleged PCA bias against 914s, but Heckmann-Thiemann service in Portland, OR wouldn't put a wrench on my car. "We don't work on 914s," the guy said. When I pointed out that it had the same suspension as the long-nose 911 on one side of it and the same engine as the bus on the other side, he asked me to leave.

First time I'd ever seen first-hand evidence of the rumored anti-914 prejudice. Surprised the hell out of me.

The BMW shop down the road had no such reservations, though...

Point is, the average person doesn't even know about the existence of the 914/6 to distunguish it from it's /4 sibling. Then you will find "some" car enthusiasts that may know about the /4's vs. the /6's. Those that do know understand the pricing and thus dictate how much these cars will actually be purchased for.

Again for me, it's not about the value or perceived value. I just like these cars. I like that people have to ask what is it, that they are "underdogs" on the track, that they are quirky looking, that they have a parentage "issue" and any other thing that makes these cars what they are.

By the way, I had a bunch of wise cracks (all in fun) made about my /4 when I started PCA DE events .... not one wise crack since I've had the /6 at the events, in fact many, many compliments. So /4 or /6, the 911 crowd knows this is family and is not going away.

.

Don't feel bad about the dealership not working on 914s, they won't touch air cooled 911s either. The techs don't know or understand the technology, or where to plug in the diagnositic.

[quote name='74porsche914' date='Mar 10 2012, 06:37 PM' post='1643245']
Just been wondering why 914's aren't worth more moolah.

The fact that many 914 owners themselves show so little regard for the "as-built" configuration of the car certainly does not help matters. A person looking to expand a modest "collection" would see so many seriously modified from OEM 914s that he would think that there must not be anything of serious value to the car. Our dispassionate "collector" would see Subie and all manner of other engines replacing the OEM item. Stock, narrow body chassis' have come under a significant assortment of modifications, from subtle to moderate to outrageous. If our would-be "investor", "collector", or nostalga driven baby boomer was going to spend some significant dollars, why would he think a 914 would be worthwhile when he has seen so many, so modified, so heavily. And before the counterpoint of "people really like my car", remember, our theoretical "collector" doesn't recall 914s looking the way your car does, "back in the day".

Our 914s are not 289 Cobras, '63 split-windows, Tri-power GTOs, E-types, and of course decent examples of cars like that are not being modified.

But when nice, original MG-As, A-H 3000s, TR-4/6s are bringing some crazy money, our hypothetical "collector" may turn his nose up at our 914s, thinking to himself "Those cars can't be worth much, everybodys' swapping engines and cutting the bodywork up"

Paul

The early 70s was an odd time for cars. Even for 911s.

The 914 continues to have an odd following. I don't get why a 914/6 as rare as it is goes for $35M+. Have you driven a stock 2.0 914/6?

You look at a 2002 911 today and get a ton of technology for $25-30M. Its hard to think a /4 will ever get there, but I could be very wrong.

The fact is, every 914 owner I meet loves to drive. Period. I could care less about the value... my widow can figure that out.

Worth more than what?

It's all relative.

After my Type 3 VW experiences with Heckmann and Thiemann, you and your 914 might be better off.

When I needed a new alternator, Marque Motors wouldn’t touch a 914 either.

I used to get the same at local Pca events. Turned it around. If the didn't like 914s I would have nothing in common. Even when they liked my 993.

Yeah, but that's a specious argument. People modify 914's because they respond well to the modifications and they're cheap, so nothing lost. If they were fetching XKE or MGA prices the're be less modifying going on, but they're not fetching those prices.

The original question was why 914's aren't worth more. The answer is that they're worth what they're worth. If they were worth more people would pay more, but they don't. What you're doing is confusing appreciation with value. The zen observation is what they're worth to other people is irrelevant, what is it worth to you? And from the materialistic point of view I'd add that you didn't pay much for it when you bought it, so is it really a problem that you don't get much for it when you sell it? And in between screw it, go drive it and congratulate yourself for the fine decision you made and the great deal you got.

I remember reading some time ago in a Hemmings article IIRC that as a general rule, cars that were loved in their day are usually just as loved as collector cars and command prices accordingly. I can't think of too many exceptions to that rule. 914s had mixed reactions in their day and I think still do. Just read the comments on bringatrailer.com when a 914 is posted.

I'm thinking that most folks on this forum that were around when they were new probably feel the same way today about 914s as they did back in the day. I know I do. The 914 plastic model I built when I was twelve was red, the one in my garage is yellow and I'm proud of them both.

[quote name='1970 Neun vierzehn' date='Mar 11 2012, 09:55 PM' post='1643817']
[quote name='74porsche914' date='Mar 10 2012, 06:37 PM' post='1643245']
Just been wondering why 914's aren't worth more moolah.

The fact that many 914 owners themselves show so little regard for the "as-built" configuration of the car certainly does not help matters. A person looking to expand a modest "collection" would see so many seriously modified from OEM 914s that he would think that there must not be anything of serious value to the car. Our dispassionate "collector" would see Subie and all manner of other engines replacing the OEM item. Stock, narrow body chassis' have come under a significant assortment of modifications, from subtle to moderate to outrageous. If our would-be "investor", "collector", or nostalga driven baby boomer was going to spend some significant dollars, why would he think a 914 would be worthwhile when he has seen so many, so modified, so heavily. And before the counterpoint of "people really like my car", remember, our theoretical "collector" doesn't recall 914s looking the way your car does, "back in the day".

Our 914s are not 289 Cobras, '63 split-windows, Tri-power GTOs, E-types, and of course decent examples of cars like that are not being modified.

But when nice, original MG-As, A-H 3000s, TR-4/6s are bringing some crazy money, our hypothetical "collector" may turn his nose up at our 914s, thinking to himself "Those cars can't be worth much, everybodys' swapping engines and cutting the bodywork up"

Paul
[/quote]

I don't know about you, but when I was growing up in the 70's, every single car I saw was modified, especially Corvettes. American Iron was being jacked-up high as a kite in the Rear end and don't get me going on 911's - how many hack slope-noses, extended rear flare, blinged-out cars P-Cars


[quote name='RobW' date='Mar 11 2012, 10:04 PM' post='1643830']
The early 70s was an odd time for cars. Even for 911s.

The 914 continues to have an odd following. I don't get why a 914/6 as rare as it is goes for $35M+. Have you driven a stock 2.0 914/6?

You look at a 2002 911 today and get a ton of technology for $25-30M. Its hard to think a /4 will ever get there, but I could be very wrong.
[/quote]

The reason a 2002 911 is so cheap ( & I have seen a bunch way below your price) is the IMS Failures & accompanning engine failures. Even the cars with the Raby IMS fix can't shake the stigma of a Bad Design

that must be why there are a bunch of odd people around here.

These cars have been my hobby for 20 + years. I've scraped 2 and rebuilt 5. The low price for these cars and the parts to rebuild them is what got me started in this hobby. Now I wish they were worth a little more because it's getting time to sell of my heard but it's been a lot of fun having these cars around. Seems to me the prices have risen in the last few years. Maybe there's still hope.

Sooo, "they" don't like the 4 cyl 914 but "they" do like the butt-ass ugly 4 cyl 912? (Sorry, I just think that early 911/912 body style is horrid).

I am baffled at the "VW" stigma since REAL Porsches and VWs are air cooled. (Yes, I think all the water cooled cars are fake VWs and fake Porsches).

I drove mine Saturday (it was nice and my car isn't ready for below 50 degree weather with me behind the wheel yet) and it flat out can SCOOT. Some dippy kid in a fairly new BMW couldn't keep up in a straight, much less a curvy, road. Maybe I just know how to drive and he doesn't?

I bought my car last summer and I've seen prices creep up since then. I think we are on the cusp.

When I first bought mine car (and subsequent cars) I also thought we were on the cusp. Now, I'm not so sure.

I think really nice cars will continue to see normal appreciation (don't forget that true inflation is 8%); however, there will not be meteoric rise in appreciation. In all honesty, there is no driving force behind it.

Few, if any, aspired to a 914. If you lusted for a Porsche, it was a 911 you coveted. Cars that have skyrocketed were the ones people wanted but couldn't afford.

The high cost of gas, parts prices, etc. will continue to be a drag on the bottom end of the collector car market....which is where these cars sit.

I'm not saying that they aren't worth fixing...because they are. They certainly aren't depreciating. The idea that you will buy one and do a quick "cleanup" and flip it for big bucks just isn't realistic. Your best best is to buy one for the long term. You will never get rich off of it; however, you will get driving pleasure from it while you have it and will hold your own when you sell it later.

Before realizing I could do most if not all of the work on my 914 myself, I also heard the "We don't work on these cars" from both a privately owned Porsche garage and a VW dealership. The work I had requested was simply to check the fuel pressure.

I used to like the look of the Miatas, that is until they were as common as Camrys. At 6'2" I can't even fit into one unless I want to position my kneecaps somewhere near my molars. In my 914 I have to move the seat up a notch and my head still clears the roof by a couple of inches.

It's obvious there's a valid appreciation for the 914s uniqueness, based on the number of people on this and other 914 boards.

I really didn't like the boxy look of 914s when they first hit the market. I have to say that my original perceptions were also formed by the mainstream Porsche crowd's view that 914s were just a bastard step-child. I too, liked 356s and 911s more (as well as 550s, 904s, etc.), but then I actually drove a 914 in '73 and started feeling differently about them.

I've noted price increases over the past few years. Maybe not the big bucks that other classics fetch, but we've all seen some nice examples command significant money, in both drive train configurations.

I also think it's just a matter of time ... as the supply of good stock specimens dwindle and more are scrapped to rebuild others, I believe we'll see prices start to increase significantly, just like 912s.

"Few, if any, aspired to a 914. If you lusted for a Porsche, it was a 911 you coveted. Cars that have skyrocketed were the ones people wanted but couldn't afford."



There is no market for these cars. I would be willing to be that the members of our webpage family make up 95% - maybe even 99% - of the market for these cars. And while there are definitely exceptions, for the most part we are looking for a deal. Everytime a nice car comes up for sale with a larger asking price, there is almost always a discussion pointing out what is wrong with the car and why it is over priced.

A GT with history will always sell fast and for big money. The sixes obviously do better, but personally (like what is quoted above) if given the option between concours 914-6 and a very nice 911 long nose driver, I would absolutely go for the long nose - and I love 914's.

The -4's will always be an also ran to most folks outside of this community.

I dont forsee the average values ever remotely reaching the levels of the 356 or the 911 until we (the 914 community) are willing to pay that kind of money for a car.

Yes, yes - I know - we have seen some cars sell for decent money. But that thought process is backwards. In the 911 and 356 circles the cars have consistantly strong selling prices - the odd balls are not the ones that go for big money, they are the ones that sell for cheap.

Love them for what they are. I sure do. I want a real GT - hopefully someday. I also really want a V8!

Nice to see a very clean 74' 1.8 for sale over on Samba at $14.5k. If it's as good as it looks he might just get it too.
We are definately seeing a split between keeping cars absolutely original with owners hoping for appreciation and major peformance improvements where the car loses it's originality.
Personally I'm in the originality camp, and achieving a good original car can cost but also be very satisfying.
I can also understand why people stick more power, suspension and brakes in them as they are a perfect platform for it. Porsche tried to do that back in 1970 but it was too expensive.
Each to their own. Whichever way you look at it they are a great little car.

Many are worth more in parts than trying to restore. The cost of restoring a rusted body kiils it for many cars.

The Next Question ( while somewhat related) is a what point would we have "jumped the shark"?. I mean at what Dollar Point are we going to be satisfied, but yet not lose enthuists?. There comes a point where they won't be an "affordable" Classic. Don't we kind of see this here already, where people would love to have a "-6", but may never be able to pull out the cheese unless they find one in a Barn

That's a good point. If 914's appreciate like some people hope then not many of the CSOB's who currently frequent this place would still be here.

"... at what point would we have "jumped the shark""

I hope they never do. I hope the cars stay cheap. This site and this group of people is why I come here. I get to play Porsche with real car guys that I enjoy. There is very little/none of the common problems that are usually asscciated with a prestige brand. There are plenty of other models/marques/web pages/clubs that a person can go to argue about what direction screw heads should be pointed or to be chastized for modifying a car or asking a "dumb" question. Go to a Jag club meeting. I would rather brand myself with a soldering iron. No thanks.

There is something different about folks who like 914's, regardless of their back ground. I love that.

Great discussion!

- I agree with the comment below - I fear we are our own market - and a small one at best - most of us have a need to sell the 914 we have before we can get the something else

I do see fellows who already own a 911 deciding to get a 914 for a father-son project, or as a time-trial car for themselves or a family member - 914's are acknowledged even by 911 guys as one of the best PCA track cars you can field - even if one is less than enamored of the styling - outside of PCA the 914's acceptance is a different matter

in that - the PORSCHE MYSTIQUE is a powerful factor - the Porsche Club is a superb social network that few other car clubs can rival - and fortunately PCA is large enuf to accomodate all kinds of events and diversity of interests

PCA comraderie and events opportunity is the main thing that has kept me from selling my own 914 (tho i've been caught saying i'd trade it in a heartbeat for a Tiptronic Boxster S) - owning anything PORSCHE means we get to be in the best car club there is - (at least for as long as the older 911 & 356 guys keep doing all the club work)


- at general "all-makes" vintage car shows and cruises I find my 914 is an attraction to little kids & to lots of folks who "had one in college"

- y'all will find that a night at a local cruise, or a week at Hot August Nights or other car events, will be filled with many admirers and long conversations about the 914 they once had,

(little kids think our 914s are cute - like toys, like they popped out of a crackerjack or happy meal box)


you'll also be regaled with stories about the one they have in the backyard or barn and are "gonna restore someday", or "put in a six"

or the 914-4 that the brother-in-law spent $10,000 on flares, paint & upholstery, but can't get it to run or pass SMOG or some such problem and it's not registred - - "and would you know anybody who wants to buy it????"

(the answer is "yes, but expect to get back only about 30% of the "investment"") -

(i have luckily gotten back as much as 50% of the cash i've sunk into a "restored car") ( on the other hand i have actually made money on 914/6's and 911's i have bought & parted out instead of fixing - you'd think i'd get the message)

(we can't talk about the contributed labor in the "investment" - tho i often see that as part of the value pitch on cars i look at)

- as the lady of the house points out - "that car is just a hobby - think of it as a trip to London, or a night at the slot machines - the money is gone" -

regarding the VW myth -

I meet lots of young guys at these local cruise events who have one of those non-running basketcase 914s in the backyard, usually inherited by abandonment

- they want to know about finding parts, engines, etc (I am always happy to freely give info on sources & prices, and I often offer to look at their projects and give help & advice, and I tout the benefits of PCA) - and they are generally delighted to learn they can find VW parts to get on the road, and of course make it fast, dreaming of how great a car they are going to have one day by the sweat of their labor and minimal cost -

- I hear only an occasional snide "VW" catcall from some teenager who loves flaming tailpipes low-riders and doesn't even own a car yet, who is nevertheless trying to amuse his entourage

I happen to work at one of those dealerships that wont touch a 914. As a matter of fact, we won't hardly touch anything older than 90 unless it is in great shape. This is not because we don't know how, it is because we are way too busy with the new cars and there are cheaper alternatives locally that I can highly recommend. I have actually worked on a 914 that was brought through the dealership by our used car department. I replaced a throttle cable and syncronized the carbs. It was a rare occurance.
Our dealership charges $135 an hour, how many of ya'll would be willing to pay that for even a simple oil change or valve adjust?

A current market guage: Black original '73 with 1.7L for over $10,000.00, so far. Watch for yourself and aspire:
http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/?cmd=ViewIt...RK%3AMEWAX%3AIT