Of course, you never know how much shill bidding is occuring as well.

I've been driving 914's for almost 30 years. I remember in high school in the late 70's and early 80's that 914s had a bad reputation. As others mentioned, they were not considered "real Porsches" unless they had a six. I remember going to early Porsche events (back when Riverside International was around if any of you remember) and seeing tee shirts that had 914 that said real Porsches with the highlighted "6".

Back in the day in SoCal, 914's were more associated with VW's by the younger group. When I was in high school (and probably before and since), the coveted cars were the muscle cars or the exotics. Driving around in my dad's 76 Triumph Spitfire got a lot of attention because it was cute. That car was a gutless pos that was always in the shop.

When I got my first 914, my friends asked why I got that and didn't spend a little more to get a real Porsche like a 912 or 924. I remember getting my doors blown off by a few of my friends' muscle cars, bugs, ghias and even a modified mini truck with a V6 in it. Funny thing was they smoked me in the straight line and when we drove from San Bernardino to my parent's cabin in Arrowhead or vice versa, I have my stuff out of the car and be relaxing before they arrived. They used to say that my ugly "VW" was gutless in the straight line and couldn't believe what it could do in the twisties. They also said it was a pretty ugly car and couldn't tell if I was coming or going since it was so boxy.

The other thing about the 914s was that they are a pain to work on and expensive if you pay someone else to work on them. Body work sucked because of the unit body construction (is that what it was called). If you dinged a fender, you couldn't just unbolt it to replace it.

Anyway, I've loved the cars and have owned one since 1983 (might have been 1984). I don't know why I didn't get a 911 or something else. They just felt right to me. Of course sometime I kick myself for buying my first 74 2.0 instead of the Jag XKE or the 64 Corvette convertible.

There are a lot of very valid points here. I think the car is increasing in value for good ones, with Steve Gaglione's being 2 of the top one's anywhere.

I think that the phenomena has to do with time and appreciation by a group of people that are making more money, and that DO NOT have the 356 appreciation, simply because of their current age and their 1970-1990 youthful experiences. I have owned 6 since 1975. And now I own a 1987 Carrera. Again, youthful lusts come home to roost!

I just finished sorting my 1972 914-6 conversion AX car, and my 1973 914-2.0 mechanically, and unless someone comes along and throws money at me, I will hold Orangina for the decade coming to see how it fares.

No, I don't expect to make money, but if you don't need the money, especially right away, and you like driving it a couple of days a month, you can enjoy it and not lose money.

I think that the style is still so unique that it will always turn heads and elicit college roommate comments, as does mine.

But, until that wave of 356's gets firmly cemented into history and air-conditioned collections, the 914 must wait.

Check out that very interesting article in Hemmings this month. I just got it from a bud in SW FL and it is exactly what is happening. 356's are sky high, and 914's are getting more credible every year that passes.

We are not crazy for loving the style.

John

see this long parallel value thread on the Early S Registry -

914/6 collectability

I have seen several recent posts here saying y'all have spent $5K or so just on your paint jobs, after ya personallly did hundreds of hours of prep & fixit

in yesterday's MGDriver - DIY article on a complete color change strip-repaint - " it costs $2000 in materials and $10,000 in labor at current shop rates" -


"If you are a True Believer, keep your eye on the prize and understand that, although your own passion might be great, others won't necessarily share it. " (~ Isaac Seliger )


[quote name='DBCooper' date='Mar 12 2012, 03:36 AM' post='1644068']
[/quote]
The original question was why 914's aren't worth more. The answer is that they're worth what they're worth. If they were worth more people would pay more, but they don't. ...... you didn't pay much for it when you bought it, so is it really a problem that you don't get much for it when you sell it? [/quote]

In the end, the biggest winners will be those who buy the car because they like it and drive it as often as possible. Lots of people have tried to predict the market and lost. I look back at the people who bought TR8's, TR6's, DeLoreans, etc. and put them away.... expecting the big increase that never came.

Buy the car you like, enjoy it as often as possble, keep it well maintained and don't worry about it! You may be sitting on a goldmine....but, even if you aren't you won't lose money.

Reality check!

....when you bought yours, if the price was two or three times higher then what you paid would you have still bought it? Probibly not and you would not be having so much fun having one now.

....If your 914's value jumps to twice or three times it's current value would you still drive it with out a higher degree of fear that you might ding it or park it somewhere that there was a risk of theft or damage....i.e. Wal-Mart parking lot?

.....Would you drive it as often, or only on special occasions, events, or never at all.

.....If you lost you 914, hopefully not, would you feel like a large part of your retirement investment just went up in smoke, or no college fund for your kids?

check this op-ed by Martin Swig

Collector cars as investments


.

I find it interesting that he actually mentioned the 914 in a short list of cars:

"Much later, MGBs, Mustangs, Camaros, 914s, GTVs and 240Zs were important to us. And now that we have some money, we’re only too happy to write a big check to buy a memory."

I stand by my beleif that a 914 is a long way from being viewed as a true collector car to those who are not part of the 914 community.

- however -

your post did just remind me that I seriously tossed around the idea of dropping 12k+ on a mint green 1978 VW Rabbit a few years ago! Those were great days!!

I remember the first time I ever saw one of these cars. I was about 8 years old. It passed us on the freeway as I was in the back seat of my dad's Oldsmobile. I said something like wow what kinda car is that. My dad told me it was a Porsche. I said it sounds like a bug. He said well, it has a Volkswagen engine. I thought they were cool ever since that day.

Prices for these cars are going up for examples in good condition. Here's a 76 2.0 that looks stock to me that sold for 17k. While this car is totally clean, this isn't a prime example. Everybody really wants 73s and 74s.

http://www.barrett-jackson.com/application...d=443&pop=0

Heres a 1.8 that sold for 17k too. Again not a prime example.

http://www.barrett-jackson.com/application...d=403&pop=0

Nearly all of the 914s that I see for sale are rotting or have been chopped up. This does mean there parts are available and deals to be had. Remember though, for collectors the most important things are condition and originality. Cars that are not as designed by VW/Porsche are never going to be near the top of the value curve.

A connection with Volkswagen isn't a bad thing these days. Volkswagen has a huge following.

When I decided that I wanted a 914, I did not find them to be cheap anywhere. Searched Craigslist and Ebay for a while before finding one that was what I wanted. Paid more than it cost new probably.

I intend to sell it for more. Been enjoying owning and selling fun cars for 45 years, so my intention is not just a wish or a guess.

Maybe everyone on these 914 boards should raise their prices!!If we control 99% of the cars as suggested, we could also control the prices.
Just saying...

"If we control 99% of the cars as suggested, we could also control the prices."

If we make up the majority of the sellers then it follows that we also make up the majority of the buyers. So it's doubtful that we are going to be fooled by our own pricing scheme.

+1 .......... lol ........... ...........

Summer, 1998

I am 19 and I am bored with my 280z. We had been together for three years at this point and I was young and restless. I needed something new. The search began. After a month, which is an interminable amount of time when you are at this age, I narrow my choices down to three.

First up is a 1974 914. It is orange and looking back on it now a bit of a hack job. In my eyes she is beautiful. She is the German princess bringing giant steins of beer which I have been dreaming about since I was 15. Sun faded orange paint wrapped around a cracked desert interior. I could see all the businessmen I remember from growing up in LA driving this car. I wanted to be one of them.

Choice two is a 1965 El Camino. This is Detroit Steel at its finest. She is sporting a 350 with a three speed transmission. The shifter is on the column and I have to dig the owner’s manual out of the glove box to figure out where the gears are. It was a test drive for the ages. This is the kind of car my dad would be proud of.

The third runner up was a slightly younger girl from the UK. She was a 1980 British racing green Triumph TR7. I could only imagine all of the pretty rich girls flocking to me as I pulled up to school in this beauty. She had a tan convertible top and a tan interior. Everything looked mint. I could only hope a fraction of the British class this car offered would rub off on me. I wanted to be James Bond.

Each of these cars were for sale for the same princely sum of 3000 hard earned American dollars. After an agonizing week of beach volleyball and booze I came to a decision. I took my money and I purchased the El Camino.

Looking back on everything now this was the right decision. There was no way I would have been able to keep either of the other cars on the road through college. The El Camino not only made it through college but is still with me to this day. How this happened? I can not say. I was not very nice to the poor girl. But I regretted not purchasing that 914. It haunted my dreams. The few I would see on the road would taunt me. I swear their drivers would sneer at me. They knew what I had given up.

Fast forward to October of last year. The stars aligned and almost 14 years later I purchased a 1971 914 - 4. I still walk into my garage and I am surprised it is there. This has been my dream car since I let that one go back in 1998. I do not care how much it is worth.

The "scheme" wouldn't affect us. It would only make a diff to newcomers. Maybe we aren't that hard to fool.

. yep - hope and thrill spring eternal;

i migrated to the 914 via VW bugs, then Corvairs,

then - one day in 1976 my bro said he wanted to import and sell his "special" 914-6 so he could buy a 230SL

one ride - i fell in love - i still own it

- i started racing it in 1992 - then made it "PCA show eligible" in 2005

it is still a thrilling experience to zoom around the mountain roads, revel in the full-chat of the webers at 7200, and feel glued to the 2-lane blacktop beneath

great thrills and satisfaction - except i don't often do it anymore

- 2 hrs in that Scheel seat is about all i can handle - no more enduros for this aging human chassis

meanwhile i've appreciated sojurns with another dozen 914's, spent thousands, and learned too much that is somewhat irrelevant to anything modern

i have driven a Boxster tiptronic - i think i couuld swap in a heartbeat

Oh no you don't. How dare you try and bring logic into this discussion

A friend had a rental car company with unusual cars like an Aston Martin Lagonda, Series Land Rovers, BMW Cabrios, and Boxsters. Rented a Boxster 5-speed for a date night. My wife always hated our 1971 914-4. The Boxster was everything I thought that the 914 could have been. Wife loved it. The new Boxster "S" is probably perfect. Our 15-year old has selected the 1972 914-4 for his first car, passing over a BMW 633CSi, Alfa Romeo Spider Veloce, or Mazda RX-7 Convertible already in the driveway. Says a lot!

Here's why I bought a 914--

I've always owned fun cars since I could drive. I got married and traded my GTI VR6 for a honda accord 5 speed.

Driving the accord was like driving a toaster.

My wife knew I couldn't stand it and we talked about getting a fun car as a DD. I looked at audis, BMWs, used late model 911s (way too impractical no matter how hard Porsche pushes "Porsche Everyday." I couldn't fit a set of golf clubs in an 03 911 without major contortions.)

I found a 914 and paid for it in cash about 25% of what it would have cost to trade in the accord for a BMW, and I kept the accord. As a bonus, I get to work on the car, which I discovered I enjoy almost as much as driving it. What I spend in parts equals the difference in maintenance and insurance I would have had to pay if I had bought the higher priced german car.

Everyone justifies the purchase differently, this worked for us...getting the 914 was actually the most economical way for me to satisfy my need for a fun car.

When (if) it comes time to sell, I'm sure I'll be able to get at least what I paid for it.

AND

Thanks for the welcome. These are the only two pictures I have at the moment.

It's that "rev forever sound" of the six. Nothing beats the sound of an early 911 motor. It's its own sound & nothing else (vintage compares...OKI, maybe a four cam).

The fours are really a gateway drug to the six's.

My one ride in a 3.2 was like putting a needle in my arm.

Pat, you hit the nail on the head. I first heard that air cooled 6 sound when I was 16 and it still gives me the same thrill almost 45 years later. It's the combination intake/mechanical/exhaust sound mix that brings out a smile every time.

Wow! Haven't looked at this thread I started lately and really got some good entertainment. Thanks 914 World!

I haven't had a rant in a while......

Why are 914 values lower than they should be? Several reasons, but not what everyone would think.

When I bought my 72 it cost me nearly a half years' wage. It was boxy, underpowered, and not cheap. After driving the TR6, which roasted mt feet, and being in a 6 month wait line for a 240Z (which arrived in the wrong color!) I made the committment to the 914. It was serious fun, and still is. I still own it.

That being said, here are the reasons why I feel the 914 fails to appreciate. Many of you will not like what I have to say.

The value of vintage cars (any) is determined by the desire to own one, demographics (including age of the buyer), and the condition of the car and its originality. Buyers today consider them an investment (NOT INCLIDING THIS FORUM), and expect to reap a profit at some time.

Modifications, for the most part, are detrimental to the value of the car, unless specifically condoned or performed by the factory. Ex:, a factory applied M471 package, or the factory parts supplied to a dealer for installation is OK, so long as it is documented.

As I said earlier, many of you will not be happy with what I have to say here, but it partially explains the lack of appreciation of the 914. Some examples, in no particular order.....

Six conversions - does the VIN/COA support it?
Carbs on a four - is it a euro version, with VIN/COA to match?
Shaved front side markers - see above.
Suby motors? Why?
GT converted bodywork?

These are just a few of the irreversible changes that will destroy collectability of the 914.

Raby motor, Interior changes, wheels, stereo systems can all be reversed, but when you make changes that cannot be reversed you've destroyed the 914's collectablility, and its associated sale value.

I don't know what the numbers of survivors is, be I'd be that it isn't higher than 60% of the original numbers produced (sixes excluded). That leaves about 65,000 (at best) 914-4s in the world. Those are low production numbers, and should produce higher resale values. Except.....too many have been modified beyond redemption. A four with working/intact FI is potentially collectible. A four with carbs and the FI system long gone is not. A six with a 2.0, or even an upgrade to a 2.2/2.4 is collectible. A six with a 3.2/3.6 is lost.

So, before I end my rant, and arouse the wrath of others, here is why the value of 914's does not raise in my opinion - the car lends itself to modification. Not a bad thing to the modifier who could care less about value, but a detriment to the collectability. I, as an original owner of an unmodified 914 don't care. My values will continue to rise. I also applaud those who've spent the bucks to make what they want a 914 to be - just think you've missed an opportunity.

Rant over.
Pat

I tip my hand here, as a serious collector with more cars than I dare whisper (lest there be gasps of disbelief), by agreeing with Pat, on not just 914s in general, but ALL classic cars. I struggle with correcting every car I buy back to its original state when manufactured, unless there were important manufacturer upgrades or recalls. I am happy to see so many incredible engineers, designers, fabricators, and tinkerers doing amazing things to 914s, many of which would be lost to the crusher if not for this forum's incredible resourcefulness. So those happily saved personal masterpieces, every one, that have escaped the ravages of time, neglect, and rust, make me smile. I will keep original cars intact, as I could never be a dismantler, and have expended tens of thousands restoring cars that my professionals just shake their heads at, because preservation is my calling. IF I find a 914 missing its major components or with steel flares already attached, I will finish it as if the factory had continued production, rather than pass it by or see it crushed like so many in years past. I'm for the best of both worlds!

Some good points Pat, but a argument could be made that 356 "Outlaws" are Collectable. I also see a market for 914-6 Conversions after the Economy comes back.

Pat, why so dour? Can I make an observation? You're assuming that an important reason to own one of these cars is appreciation, with a bonus of some polite late afternoon pleasure driving ("oh my, not too fast now, dear") with the wife. I point out, once again, that there are other better reasons to own a car. I don't WANT an MGA, no matter what the ROI. Nor a 356 or gold bullion, for that matter. I own a 914 for fun, and no other reason. And quite frankly I'd consider any car restricted to 165 tires to be too boring for consideration, and an upgrade to 185's is way short of a walk on the wild side.

If you don't understand the idea of a Subaru motor ("why?") I can explain. It's exciting. Some people like to ride screaming roller coasters. Other people prefer polite conversation in front of the TV. When I want to blow off some steam, get a few thrills, your car wouldn't deliver. Mine does. The best ROI I've ever found. Well, short of roller coasters.

And once again I say that the resale value of 914's is NOT low, it's exactly what people, buyers and sellers, have agreed that it should be. You bought it for not much so why do you complain when you sell it for not much? If you didn't have any fun in between that may be a terrible deal, but if you had fun it was excellent, and the more fun the better the deal. So what's the problem? Stop polishing the thing all day and go have some fun!


Edit: Let me point out one other thing, Pat. You say "These are just a few of the irreversible changes that will destroy collectability of the 914." That's not true. It may affect the collectability of THAT 914, but not 914's a whole. If anything someone taking a car out of the collector's market will increase the value of all remaining cars. Right? So I've done you a favor and increased the value of your car, meaning I deserve a little thanks, don't you think? A little 'keep up the good work'?

Edit #2: You're also assuming that a Subaru motor is an irreversible modification. It's not. The only metal removed from the car is to add the radiator, and putting that back to original is LESS work than typical 914 rust repair. Rust repair that will also diminish originality. My car could be put back to stock quite easily, but who wants that? That's crazy talk.


.

The short version is that when they were new....all of em'....they were ugly & slow.
That is not nessarly my view but that of the market place.

Take a 70 Dodge Road Runner, clone a Hemi (or several other cars) and you may make a profit upon sale.
Take a 70 914/6, clone a GT and you'll get your wallet burnt.

This is the actual world beyond 914World.

Oh my. I never knew what a "356 Outlaw" was until I searched after this post. http://outlawcoupe.truspeed.com/
The one in the link has a 914 motor! I have one of the last 356C built. Cannot imagine, with their rising value, why anyone would radically modify a real one. I thought those cars were all fiberglass clones!

I think there will always be a market for 914-6 conversions because they seem to be insanely fast! By the way, the only cars I have ever bought thinking ROI were last model year Cadillac convertibles. Cars that I went to lunch in during college are now $200K+! All of my other vehicles were passion purchases, or "saves," like the complete Alfa Spider I saw hooked on a tow truck heading for the scrap yard because it needed a fuel pump and the owner had no space to fix it! We are not all doctors in formed investment pools: I drive my cars!

Politely, or with malice? All the cars, or just some?

If you drive hell for leather in the cars that were designed for that then kudos.


.

While I agree that most guys my age think the car is ugly, it no doubt turns heads. After having the car running for little over a week, I have not gotten out of it to go to class without someone saying "cool car man!" A lot of kids these days prefer something *different* now that all cars are basically jelly-beans. I even went to the local car show on Thursday with the car basically in primer black and I think I got more attention than most of the hot-rods. Its quirky, its slow, but its different. It almost makes me want to keep it in primer - not too many rat-rod black Porsches around

George did you go to the Quaker Steak & Lube? I need to get back over there.

And Pat, you are wrong about the Demographics too. I can't tell you how many kids play Forza & other games that have a 914 that think they are cool. My son would love to have a 914-6 instead of his Honda, but he has no mechanical skills even though I gave him a Snap-On Box full of Tools

The key is not selling them, period. Although E-type and DB5 owners have done very well. Only way collecting has worked for me is that I bought them at a great or fair price and have enjoyed owning and driving them for up to 25 years. Classic cars have outperformed the stock market, so I just lucked out on paper. Cars that I bought for $5K in the 1980's are now worth $60K+, and I have not done a thing. Most owners here are not selling and I bought my 914 out of a garage, where it had been parked for years, only when the PO was selling the house and needed the garage empty. To paraphrase Warren Buffet, the best time to sell ... is never!

The shorter the observer the better these cars look. From the right angles they look sweet. Most cars aren't worth looking at these days. Most great cars have bad some angles. They also look better with the tops off.

The top on the chopped featured car is hot. The camera is nearly on the ground too.

As a new 914 owner, I found this thread interesting. Bumping it to see if any of you have seen any changes within the 914 market over the last year?

LINK

There are changes...look at the link posted this morning:

Are prices rising?

here you go....prices are up for nice ones

http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/Excellent-C...=item20d085b35a

I go to a lot of the car shows in the Reno and Carson Valley area every year, and I find one thing that all the owners share when it comes to their cars - they spent far more $ on them than they could ever sell them for. My sons kid me that when I die they will bury me in my 914. Mines not for sale, so I guess the $ value is not important. I'm shopping for another 914 at this time, so I'm glad the prices are still low.