Direct to metal body filler, Do the Pro's use this? Options

[ruby914]

I got this direct to metal aluminum body filler thinking it was a good way to go.
After seeing some of you Pros, no filler body work, I just can't get satisfied with my work.
On top of this car being far from dent free, under all 5 layers of paint, I am sure I could have welded the flares on a little cooler.
I am getting experience and learning a lot by doing things more than one time.

After using the aluminum filler, I started tapping it from the back side and blocking it out.
I can't expect to have no filler but I had more than I was happy with.
I am now wondering if this direct to metal filler is a good product to start with.
Prime with the 5 star primer then fill with the glaze, prime again and paint. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/confused24.gif)

[Tom_T]

When I did a rolling resto on my 73 2L in April/May 1980, the body shop used a similar aluminized-poly body filler to patch some rust areas on the area below the sails - instead of the lead method or welded steel patch that I'd requested & paid for.

Those rust areas started bubbling back within a couple of years! (IMG:style_emoticons/default/mad.gif)

While their compounds may have improved in the past 32 years, IMHO it's still better to do the welded sheet metal patch method (nobody does Leading anymore due to toxicity, etc. - although Porsche Classics in Germany still does leaded seam seals on their in-house resto's.).

As far as use for body filler to smooth areas, maybe ScottyB, McMarak, Rick 918S, etc. who are the bodywork guru's can speak to that usage direct to metal.

I'd still be concerned that the filler on metal then primed over it, might be prone to holding moisture under your primer/sealer rust protection coat. That aluminum filler has to have some polymer (plastic) matrix material to hold the aluminum particles & stick it to the sheet metal, and those polymers can absorb & hold some water content.

And in Hawthorne - being close to the beach - you do have moist salt-rich sea air coming in daily! (IMG:style_emoticons/default/dry.gif)

[ruby914]

When I did a rolling resto on my 73 2L in April/May 1980, the body shop used a similar aluminized-poly body filler to patch some rust areas on the area below the sails - instead of the lead method or welded steel patch that I'd requested & paid for.

Those rust areas started bubbling back within a couple of years! (IMG:style_emoticons/default/mad.gif)

While their compounds may have improved in the past 32 years, IMHO it's still better to do the welded sheet metal patch method (nobody does Leading anymore due to toxicity, etc. - although Porsche Classics in Germany still does leaded seam seals on their in-house resto's.).

As far as use for body filler to smooth areas, maybe ScottyB, McMarak, Rick 918S, etc. who are the bodywork guru's can speak to that usage direct to metal.

I'd still be concerned that the filler on metal then primed over it, might be prone to holding moisture under your primer/sealer rust protection coat. That aluminum filler has to have some polymer (plastic) matrix material to hold the aluminum particles & stick it to the sheet metal, and those polymers can absorb & hold some water content.

And in Hawthorne - being close to the beach - you do have moist salt-rich sea air coming in daily! (IMG:style_emoticons/default/dry.gif)

Tom,
I had the same problem with a $5,000 paint job.
Maybe it takes $10,000 (IMG:style_emoticons/default/confused24.gif)
I have cut out all the rust. Even with no rust, Prep must be 90% of it.

It's hard to tell from photos of other peoples work.
In my photo I did the patch of the wart hole then the flare.
On this fender, after tapping out filler, I checked just how deep the deepest spot was and got only about .003 in. That's out of the photo but I may get the same if I do another sweep.

On a back fender that I will do more work to, I found it to be .015 deep. I am not happy with that.
I am finding it easier to tap it out with the filler than with out.

This is a very fine filler so the question would be limited to maybe .005 ~ .010 in.

Edit: I guess your point is, any direct to metal body filler regardless of thickness may promote rust.

[boogie_man]

I haven't seen all metal in many years and it's good if applied correcty. It's all in the prep guys and yes it pays to hammer and dolly your panels as flat and contoured as possible. That way,
when you apply fillers. You're only using a skim coat of it, blocking it down using
finer and finer sandpapers then primer. You'll find after mixing several batches,
you'll get the hang of it.... (IMG:style_emoticons/default/beerchug.gif)

[rick 918-S]

All metal is a good product but don't expect it to fill holes and be water tight. Solid weld everything. Grind, bump and file as best you can. Nothing wrong with using filler products as long as your not abusing them.

[ThePaintedMan]

All metal is a good product but don't expect it to fill holes and be water tight. Solid weld everything. Grind, bump and file as best you can. Nothing wrong with using filler products as long as your not abusing them.

Whew. After spending years learning autobody on my own since high school and my first car, its nice to hear a true body wizard doesn't mind it... at least in small quantities. You da man Rick!

[rick 918-S]

All metal is a good product but don't expect it to fill holes and be water tight. Solid weld everything. Grind, bump and file as best you can. Nothing wrong with using filler products as long as your not abusing them.

Whew. After spending years learning autobody on my own since high school and my first car, its nice to hear a true body wizard doesn't mind it... at least in small quantities. You da man Rick!

Let's face it. Not every car is a metal finish candidate. Not many customers have the bucks to pay for that level of work. Hell not many body guys have the time to spend doing that kind of work for themselves or the time to even learn the skills needed to get to that level. Ever look at one of those high end street rods? They are filler from one end to the other.

This is fill abuse:




After:




This panel was assaulted with a pick hammer from front to back. There was a huge dent left in and filled over. Sometimes a guy needs to realize when your in over your head and let someone else do the heavy lifting.

[ruby914]

Thank you Rick,
Every day, I think I have just about got it. I wake up the next and do 50% better.
Every new tool, makes it that much easier and better.
More and more time makes it better.
I spent a lot of that time respecting your work. Didn't know when to call it soup.
Time and $$$. I am starting to understand.
I didn't want to pay that much, now I am doing the time.
Thanks (IMG:style_emoticons/default/beerchug.gif)

[gothspeed]

Excellent metal work Rick!!!! (IMG:style_emoticons/default/beerchug.gif)