Rollcage for dual purpose Options

[6freak]

your body will take the impact with a stiff car .....let the car fold up and you will not get as hurt .theres some pretty smart folks that have already figured that out.. THERE IS NO DEBATE...5 points are not D.O.T approved...silly but true
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[Elliot Cannon]

And to add fuel to the fire, i just checked my head to something solid clearance on my Jetta on the way home from work.

My head is only about 3" away from the B-pillar, which is solid metal with a thin layer of hard plastic covering it.

On my 914, the top of the roll-cage is actually further away (almost 5") and it is covered in shock absorbing roll-cage padding material.

According to some of the posts above, my 914 is a death-trap while my Jetta is a perfectly acceptable daily driver.

I don't get it ...
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How can you compare your thick head with that of a normal person? (IMG:style_emoticons/default/headbang.gif)
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[SirAndy]

The Jetta, assuming it's from the last decade or two, was designed with a set of safety systems. Designed together, engineered together, tested together.

A 914 with a roll cage was not.

Last time i checked, the Jetta metal is just as hard as the 914 metal.

How in the world is it safer to have a factory metal beam 3" from my head than a aftermarket metal beam 5" from my head?

Please enlighten me ...
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PS: As for the seat belts, on the street, i use early belts that are non-retractable. They are much more snug than later style belts.

[SirAndy]

How can you compare your thick head with that of a normal person? (IMG:style_emoticons/default/headbang.gif)

I did? I apologize, my mistake ... (IMG:style_emoticons/default/biggrin.gif)

[Elliot Cannon]

A roll cage is to protect you when the car rolls over. It's not designed to absorb impact. That's another reason I got rid of the Yellow Zonker. (That and a half dozen speeding tickets). (IMG:style_emoticons/default/driving.gif) (IMG:style_emoticons/default/laugh.gif)

[6freak]

The Jetta, assuming it's from the last decade or two, was designed with a set of safety systems. Designed together, engineered together, tested together.

A 914 with a roll cage was not.

Last time i checked, the Jetta metal is just as hard as the 914 metal.

How in the world is it safer to have a factory metal beam 3" from my head than a aftermarket metal beam 5" from my head?

Please enlighten me ...
(IMG:style_emoticons/default/confused24.gif)

PS: As for the seat belts, on the street, i use early belts that are non-retractable. They are much more snug than later style belts.

crumple zones....the car takes the impact ....by the time your head hits it its lost alot of energy....JMO
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[SirAndy]

crumple zones....the car takes the impact ....by the time your head hits it its lost alot of energy...

I still have crumble zones. My cage is only inside the passenger compartment. It's not tied to either the front or rear shock towers.

The 914 crumble zone is *not* inside the cabin, it's the trunks. I did not modify the trunks.

I have pictures of stock 914s (no cage etc.) that were in head-on collisions. The passenger compartment is still largely intact.
I don't buy the "crumble zone" argument for cages that aren't tied to the suspension points.
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[6freak]

crumple zones....the car takes the impact ....by the time your head hits it its lost alot of energy...

I still have crumble zones. My cage is only inside the passenger compartment. It's not tied to either the front or rear shock towers.

The 914 crumble zone is *not* inside the cabin, it's the trunks. I did not modify the trunks.

I have pictures of stock 914s (no cage etc.) that were in head-on collisions. The passenger compartment is still largely intact.
I don't buy the "crumble zone" argument for cages that aren't tied to the suspension points.
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OK....that seems logical ....but you have still stiffened the chassis .. lots of longs get tweeked when the cars are wrecked
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[Elliot Cannon]

crumple zones....the car takes the impact ....by the time your head hits it its lost alot of energy...

I still have crumble zones. My cage is only inside the passenger compartment. It's not tied to either the front or rear shock towers.

The 914 crumble zone is *not* inside the cabin, it's the trunks. I did not modify the trunks.

I have pictures of stock 914s (no cage etc.) that were in head-on collisions. The passenger compartment is still largely intact.
I don't buy the "crumble zone" argument for cages that aren't tied to the suspension points.
(IMG:style_emoticons/default/popcorn[1].gif)

I thought Ammoy was your crumple zone? (IMG:style_emoticons/default/av-943.gif)

[SirAndy]

I thought Amoy was your crumple zone? (IMG:style_emoticons/default/av-943.gif)

All 98 pounds of her? (IMG:style_emoticons/default/cheer.gif)

[stuttgart46]

Thanks for the feedback. All of my cars that I have put cages in previously were dedicated racecars only. I am interested in putting a cage in because I don't like the idea of putting a car on the track without one. I want to be able to take the car I'm building to the track because there isn't a winding road in all of Houston.

[carr914]

Just pretend that Traffic are apexes (IMG:style_emoticons/default/driving.gif)

[brant]

IF you run a roll cage in a street car it is imperative that it be padded properly. My car is a dual purpose (albeit 98% street/2% track) toy but I installed the cage not necessary for my safety rather to stiffen the loosey goosey uni-body. Had I known how much difference it would have made it would have been JOB #1 on the list - amazingly tight!

BTW - All the bars NOW have proper padding on them (in the pic below).

not trying to be negative
but just warning you

I have a freind who broke both knees' in a light accident with a knee bar like yours
those are pretty low and it would be a lot safer to cut that out or put it behind the dash... be careful.

[J P Stein]

I was doing a skid pad and got off line a bit and hit a bump. Bonked my head on the halo part (side) of the cage.....it was padded and I had my helmet on (5 point harness also). Damn near knocked me out. That caged hoop was eliminated the next winter.....also got rid of that knee bar to one up over the steering column.

[SirAndy]

also got rid of that knee bar to one up over the steering column.

That knee bar in the previous pic (Not yours JP) scares me too.

My front cross bar goes behind the dash and is not visible (or hittable) at all ...
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[SirAndy]

Bonked my head on the halo part (side) of the cage.....Damn near knocked me out.

A friend of mine lost his right eye-brow in a roll over. That was in a street car with no cage. He was wearing seat belts. We found his eyebrow stuck to the *passenger* side top of the door frame.

My point being, the side part of a roll cage is no worse that the top of a roof or door in a normal passenger car. Hitting your head on metal hurts.

It's not like your head will think "Oh, the factory put that steel beam here, this won't hurt a bit!"
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[Dave_Darling]

But to argue your Belt theory, think about that a Stock set of belts are now 40 Years Old.

I think in SCCA, you can't have Belts that are over 5 years old

You cannot have AFTERMARKET belts (harnesses) that are over 5 years old. You can have FACTORY belts that are as old as the car. (Or older.) Done primarily for liability; the assumption is that the OEMs did enough research to ensure that the stock belts are good enough for a reasonable impact.

Last time i checked, the Jetta metal is just as hard as the 914 metal.

How in the world is it safer to have a factory metal beam 3" from my head than a aftermarket metal beam 5" from my head

Maybe your case is different; at least JP and I would have a beam much closer than 3" from our heads in our cars.

The point, however, is that the Jetta was designed so that people would have reasonable odds of surviving a collision, even when their heads are 3" from that beam. Perhaps the beam is designed to crumple out of the way, or perhaps the belts are designed to keep you from going that direction, or perhaps something else is supposed to keep you from hitting that beam. The seatbelts and cockpit structures are (in theory at least!) designed as a complete system. Making ad-hoc changes to that system can result in Very Bad Things happening.

If you want to keep arguing that your 914 is safer for you than your Jetta is, you can keep talking. But it doesn't change the fact that full roll cages in street-driven cars are generally a Very Bad Idea. In the general case, for most people and most cars.

My point being, the side part of a roll cage is no worse that the top of a roof or door in a normal passenger car. Hitting your head on metal hurts.

Hurts, yup. But hitting your head on a large flat piece of metal is not as likely to shatter your skull as hitting it on a 2" diameter tube. It wouldn't be fun, but you're less likely to become a corpse due to it.

--DD

[Cracker]

I was doing a skid pad and got off line a bit and hit a bump. Bonked my head on the halo part (side) of the cage.....it was padded and I had my helmet on (5 point harness also). Damn near knocked me out. That caged hoop was eliminated the next winter.....also got rid of that knee bar to one up over the steering column.

Thank you all for your concern...I will address the cowl hoop as I find it necessary moving forward.

Regarding the yellow car above...my goodness, how does that pass tech? I wouldn't get into a car that I stick OUT of. Below is my seated/belted position (I'm 6'5") and have more than 5 inches of clearance. This took quite a bit of custom work but I just look over the top of the steering wheel. The important thing is I'm seated low and my head is clear of bars...all the exposed bars in the pics have SINCE been fully padded - before someone flames me. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/wacko.gif)

[Aaron Cox]

6'5" guy ^^^ , i assume your seat is bolted to the floor? no stock tilt/slide?

[brant]

Aaron,

the car has a nice pan and the seat is lowered into the pan recess...
lower than a stock floor.

a lot of nice fab work and effort went into lowering that seat.

beware your knee's though...
I'm not trying to be negative, but I've seen it with my own eyes..

Padding is the bare minimum on all area's of a roll cage
it doesn't really make it as safe as say "no body contact"