All of this and I still can't shift into first., Pemisssion to shoot myself, sir! Options

[r3dplanet]

If it it were possible to strangle myself I would have done it.

Over the past couple of months I've been trying to put my car back together. It came to me a long-term project but its slowly turning into something great.

Over the past week I've been driving it around and its really getting close now.

Except for the part where it's merciless to shift. Specifically, its a little hard to shift into just about any gear (enough to create a blister after one day of around town driving). But the main problem is that I can't get it to shift into first gear unless I nudge the car in another gear prior. For example, coming to a stop in second and shifting into first when the car has almost zero speed. Sometimes at a stop light I can shift into reverse or second and then into first, but this only works 50% of the time. Plus, I'm nervous as hell about keeping my foot on the clutch at red lights because I imagine the clutch cable snapping right then and there.

This is what I've done in the Great Do-Over of The Past Year as far as related work goes:

(1) A Dr. Evil transmission rebuild clinic + bonus ring gear reversal after the fact.
(2) A full Jwest Engineering linkage replacement including the linkage at shift console along with new bushings, u-joints, and what-not. All of this seems very smooth to me.
(3) a Rennshift sport shifter
(4) new engine mounts
(5) new transmission mounts from Wevo
(6) new clutch cable
(7) proper clutch adjust. Free play at the pedal a bit over an inch before it begins to engage.

The clutch tube seems intact. When the girlfriend pushes the clutch pedal the tube doesn't move. It's a little crappy looking at the body but it certainly seems to be intact.

I'm not sure if its the clutch itself. I doesn't slip out of gear and it pulls really well once in gear. No scorched potholder smell.

I've been all over the place with shifter adjustment. I'm pretty happy with the adjustment in that I can adjust it too far forward or aft, and it seems to be happy where it is. Reverse and fifth are the easiest gears to get in to. Apologies for ending the previous sentence with a preposition.

One other thing, the hotter the car and the day become, the harder it is to shift into any particular gear. Fourth gear becomes the hardest after first.

I've searched around in the forums but it seems like I've already done what I'm supposed to do in comparing my case to others. Maybe my car demands further sacrifice of some sort.

I'm all f-ing ears if anyone has some solid ideas for me. The car is staying put until I can crack this.

Thanks,
Marcus

[r_towle]

Its your shifter console on the transmission.
There is not enough movement to get to first gear.


Rich

[JWest]

Quote form the instructions that came with the kit:

Check that the shift cup does not hit the support when fully forward or back. If it does, adjust the position of the support or grind some material off of the shift cup at the point of contact. Very slight contact at full engagement is allowed, there does not have to be actual clearance. Too much interference will result in a bent support, though.

[r3dplanet]

Quote from earlier in this thread:

That part that I'm confused by is that if the bracket were keeping 1/3/5 from fully engaging, one would think that this side (the forward side) would be where there's a lack of free space. But it has a good 1/4". It makes more sense for r/2/4 to not fully engage because that's where there's no gap. Unless not having enough free spaced on the aft (1/3/5) side of the bracket is keeping me from getting a perfectly centered adjustment.

When I installed the bracket there seemed to be good clearance.

[JWest]

Quote from earlier in this thread:

That part that I'm confused by is that if the bracket were keeping 1/3/5 from fully engaging, one would think that this side (the forward side) would be where there's a lack of free space. But it has a good 1/4". It makes more sense for r/2/4 to not fully engage because that's where there's no gap. Unless not having enough free spaced on the aft (1/3/5) side of the bracket is keeping me from getting a perfectly centered adjustment.

When I installed the bracket there seemed to be good clearance.

Yes, but if that tight side is hitting now and bent the bracket, then it will bind up the linkage.

Why is there a washer under the bolt holding the shift cup onto the linkage? Either that washer is loose and floating (no harm but not needed) or the bolt is not tight against the linkage and will slip.

With Porsche servo synchros it is rarely posible to select first gear whenever you want - some version of shifting while slowing or selecting a different gear prior is nearly standard.

[r3dplanet]

Thanks for getting back.

Tomorrow I'll pull out the bracket and elongate the mounting holes or grind the shift cup and make sure that both sides are square. When I re-mount it I'll make sure that there's good clearance on both sides.

The washer is there simply because I'm used to putting washers in between parts and fasteners. Its on there really tight and there's no slop, but if you think its better without it I'll pull it out.

Thanks for your help.

Quote from earlier in this thread:

That part that I'm confused by is that if the bracket were keeping 1/3/5 from fully engaging, one would think that this side (the forward side) would be where there's a lack of free space. But it has a good 1/4". It makes more sense for r/2/4 to not fully engage because that's where there's no gap. Unless not having enough free spaced on the aft (1/3/5) side of the bracket is keeping me from getting a perfectly centered adjustment.

When I installed the bracket there seemed to be good clearance.

Yes, but if that tight side is hitting now and bent the bracket, then it will bind up the linkage.

Why is there a washer under the bolt holding the shift cup onto the linkage? Either that washer is loose and floating (no harm but not needed) or the bolt is not tight against the linkage and will slip.

With Porsche servo synchros it is rarely posible to select first gear whenever you want - some version of shifting while slowing or selecting a different gear prior is nearly standard.

[karnak]

ya' know, reading this reminds me of what i just went thru. i have a 3.0 SC and a 915 trans (in a '75 914). after a new clutch went in, the darn thing would not go into any gear. i discovered that the clutch disk was too thick. if you have any pictures of the pressure plate fingers before you installed the transmission. it would be good to look at them. if they are pointing outward toward the rear bumper where the throwout bearing contacts and not sitting flat (mostly) then you will have to pull out the trans and clutch to redo it.
my disc was a Raybestos brand. it was 0.025" (about half a mm) too thick. i spun the disk with my drill and with a belt sander, removed some material from both sides and put it back in. the fingers lay much flatter. it was a long day but i can select any gear now.

good luck! i hope this is not your issue, but thought it good to post my expierence

(IMG:style_emoticons/default/popcorn[1].gif)
Gary

[Dr Evil]

Once you get all the other stuff worked out (external adjustments), there are some caveats for first gear:

1) If you have a brand new synchro band, shifting is difficult without first going into another gear. This is because the new ones are very stiff. A great used one only takes one finger to shift into and it stays engaged. A new one takes considerably more muscle.

2) The transmission is not designed for one to slow down using 1st gear (translation: you are never to downshift into 1st gear for deceleration purposes). First is geared too low and downshifting into first is not recommended, and causes unnecessary and more rapid wear on the expensive 1st gear components.

[r3dplanet]

Holy cats. Well, I think I found the problem and let me just state up front THAT IT IS MY OWN FAULT. Not that blame is important in troubleshooting. It's just that I feel like an asshat.

Somehow, and I don't know how, I tore the sh*t out of the console shifter shaft, and with it the sad-as-a-panda bronze bushing inside.

I can't for the life of me figure out how I did this. I installed everything when the gearbox was out of the car several months ago and it all bolted up as smooth as can be.

Two weeks ago I had to drop the gearbox because the diff was in backwards (remember the fever I had at the clinic?) when I installed it at the Tacoma clinic last year. I must have scraped the hell out of it getting it in or out of the car during the recent work. I'm good at self-blame, but this spooks me.

Anyway, here are the grizzly photos. I'm off to my machinist Gary tomorrow to see if he can bail me out of trouble.

[Dr Evil]

Hmmmm, I hope that fixes it (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)

[r3dplanet]

Yeah, between you and me I worry that even if I fix this it still won't shift into first. We'll find out soon.

Hmmmm, I hope that fixes it (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)

[r3dplanet]

Okay, so my machinist (also a 914 person) bailed me out of trouble with the damage. He smoothed out the damage to the shaft and replaced the bronze bushing. He also ground down the other side of the shift cup to make it uniform.

Pic:



Before I reinstalled it I de-rerusted it and shot it with some caliper paint.

He found that even after doing this there still might be a clearance issue so he put the shaft into his lathe and removed about 3/16" of material from what used to be under the shift cup. Here's a photo, but it only shows what's missing. He just removed enough material to lengthen the shorter diameter of the shaft a little further.



I put it all back together last night and took it for a spin. It's now perfectly smooth in all gears .. except first. First is generally a little easier to panic shift into when there's a large delivery truck honking behind me. I would say that there is perhaps a 15% increase in first shifting success from a dead stop. So while there's some serendipity in finding the shifter damage, I'm really back where I started except that I know its not the shifter, the linkage, or the console. That's progress of a sort.

I think I'm starting the eyeball the first gear itself inside the box. Last night when I was under the car monkeying with the shifter I thought that maybe there was a little more resistance in manually selecting first gear. Or it could be my imagination.

In the meantime I'm trying to work on my shifting technique (2nd into first, slight 2nd into first, reverse into first). I realize that the 901 is a touch wonky with first gear anyway, but my previous two 914s never had so much trouble.

What's next on the diagnosis list? Checking out the actual gear? How do I do that?

Thanks everyone. I really, really appreciate the help I get here.

-marcus

[Dr Evil]

Man, I hate it when guys use non stock shifter doodads as it kind of mucks up symptoms and may cause issues when they are boogered up. I would say that you can look at first, but I can not be sure that is the next step as I am unfamiliar with your shifter setup.

Shifting or not shifting at the box by hand is a very poor diagnostic and doesnt tell you much unless the shifter does not move at all. Gears are sometimes hard and sometimes not, and it usually means nothing.

[r3dplanet]

Well, that's fair. I don't really know the next step either so I'm just leaving it for now.

[bugsy0]

Has anybody mentioned the ball-stud in the bell housing, on which the clutch release fork pivots? The plastic cup wears out, causing the release fork geometry to go out. This in turn causes symptoms such as running out of adjustment room on the clutch cable.

[rwilner]

In *my* transmission....(disclaimer to all below)

I had some binding shifting into first when shifting into it at a dead stop. During the rebuild a stock 2nd thru 5th gear dog gear was used on first -- a very common practice used by many to save some $.

Fast forward 2k miles and the problem improved due to breaking in of the brand new stiff syncho ring (I presume), but it was still present. I then had the dog gear modified to use the normal first gear parts (special claw thrust block and only 1 brake band). Now I can get into first 100% of the time at a dead stop.

Again -- this is my car with its own insanities and YMMV but this could be contributing to your "shifting into first" woes.

Good luck!
Rich

[r3dplanet]

I've read events just like this one enough times to suspect (or at least have a desire to double-check) that I may have a similar issue. But frankly I couldn't differentiate a dog gear from thrust block, let alone know how to inspect, replace, or modify them.

As for the plastic shift cup on the release fork, I don't remember what its condition is. Or if its even there. That's actually pretty stupid of me because I just had the gearbox out a few weeks ago. Still, clutch throw doesn't seem to be the issue.

In *my* transmission....(disclaimer to all below)

I had some binding shifting into first when shifting into it at a dead stop. During the rebuild a stock 2nd thru 5th gear dog gear was used on first -- a very common practice used by many to save some $.

Fast forward 2k miles and the problem improved due to breaking in of the brand new stiff syncho ring (I presume), but it was still present. I then had the dog gear modified to use the normal first gear parts (special claw thrust block and only 1 brake band). Now I can get into first 100% of the time at a dead stop.

Again -- this is my car with its own insanities and YMMV but this could be contributing to your "shifting into first" woes.

Good luck!
Rich

[rwilner]

I've read events just like this one enough times to suspect (or at least have a desire to double-check) that I may have a similar issue. But frankly I couldn't differentiate a dog gear from thrust block, let alone know how to inspect, replace, or modify them.

As for the plastic shift cup on the release fork, I don't remember what its condition is. Or if its even there. That's actually pretty stupid of me because I just had the gearbox out a few weeks ago. Still, clutch throw doesn't seem to be the issue.

FYI -- first gear (and reverse) can be checked with the transmission in the car. You need to pull off your muffler and the transmission tail cone to get to the 1st gear stuff.

[r3dplanet]

Yes, thank you. I know this part at least. Getting the tail cone off and looking around is within my ability and I'm not spooked by that part of the chain. But I'm ashamed to say that even after the rebuild clinic and repeated DVD viewing I don't feel any more competent to know what to look for than do-it-yourself-surgery on my own organs. Just feel stupid. If I had a little more experience I know it would easy enough to just see what I have and verify.

Here's the graph:

Step 1: Drain gearbox, remove muffler, support gearbox, and remove rear mount bolts. Pull tail cone.
Step 2: ?
Step 3: Profit.

I've read events just like this one enough times to suspect (or at least have a desire to double-check) that I may have a similar issue. But frankly I couldn't differentiate a dog gear from thrust block, let alone know how to inspect, replace, or modify them.

As for the plastic shift cup on the release fork, I don't remember what its condition is. Or if its even there. That's actually pretty stupid of me because I just had the gearbox out a few weeks ago. Still, clutch throw doesn't seem to be the issue.

FYI -- first gear (and reverse) can be checked with the transmission in the car. You need to pull off your muffler and the transmission tail cone to get to the 1st gear stuff.

[ChrisFoley]

Its impossible to tell if a 2nd gear synchro hub is installed on first gear without removing the gear and then removing the snap ring off the synchro...
unless the rebuilder noted it on the invoice/set-up sheet that is.

[Dr Evil]

Bull shit, you can see if there is one or two notches on the inner metal lip without removing the snap ring. One notch = 2-5, 2 notches = 1st.

Also, the 2-5 bands and teeth would not cause this. New bands will DEFINITELY do this. The new bands are stupidly stiff to the point that I avoid using them at all cost.