What oil does everyone run?, Not just break in oil! Options

[Rand]

Valvoline straight 40W pure dino oil. What do you think the Germans were using 40 years ago? My car has never run better and cooler in hotter temps.

(IMG:style_emoticons/default/agree.gif) Single weight is the way to go. Although i do have to say im a Castrol Man!

Castrol HD 40wt 1.7 with no real mods

....I agree.....in these cars(914,vw)even early 911

Stuck in the past? It pays to stay educated because things change. You still use transistors in our ipod? Don't just spew history, keep learning!

[tscrihfield]

Wow... I have received more response on this than I expected. I am a castrol guy simply because I know what their research consists of and agree with it. However, it does not mean it is the best oil for this car. I have also heard arguments about Pennsylvania crude and the benefits from that. Anyway, thank you all for the comments keep them coming.

Thomas

Are there other good oils that contain the zinc and other pertanent additives?

[smj]

I am a castrol guy ... However, it does not mean it is the best oil for this car.

But... but... Castrol is Liquid Engineering®! It must be the best choice!! (IMG:style_emoticons/default/dry.gif)

I have a jug of Castrol in the -6 now, because I needed to put something in it when we got it running again. Now that I'm past 750 miles I need to figure out what the next fill is. So Mark thanks for the vote for Castrol in a six banger. I had assumed Brad Penn would be a good choice, but maybe my 911SC lump is new enough to not require the extra zinc and phosphorus...

[brant]

I am a castrol guy ... However, it does not mean it is the best oil for this car.

But... but... Castrol is Liquid Engineering®! It must be the best choice!! (IMG:style_emoticons/default/dry.gif)

I have a jug of Castrol in the -6 now, because I needed to put something in it when we got it running again. Now that I'm past 750 miles I need to figure out what the next fill is. So Mark thanks for the vote for Castrol in a six banger. I had assumed Brad Penn would be a good choice, but maybe my 911SC lump is new enough to not require the extra zinc and phosphorus...

it has nothing to do with the newness of the rebuild..
its not like the old days with lead where you could rebuild a motor and used seats made to run without lead...


its about the forces and design of the cam shaft and lifters....

if you have roller rockers and hydraulic lifters like a modern motor then the forces on your cam lobes are lessened and you will be fine...

however if you have an chevy 350 (nearly all V8's over 5-10 years old)
or any 911 air cooled 6 cylinder
or any type 4 motor....
then your cam shafts are subject to enough force that you need the zinc and phosphorus to help them cushion the rockers running on the cams

without it you can trash a set of cam shafts in only a thousand or few thousand miles.... and nothing will bring those lobes back except another rebuild.

break in is probably the absolute most important time to protect those cam lobes with the proper oil since they need the heat cycle to help them begin their lives......

[TurbOH Brad]

Every single aircooled I have ever run has been on Brad Penn 20W-50

[dlestep]

Valvoline straight 40W pure dino oil. What do you think the Germans were using 40 years ago? My car has never run better and cooler in hotter temps.

Did someone say "HOT" in Minny Soda ?
Our winters are hotter than your summers, anyone's engine would be cooler. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/biggrin.gif)

[Drums66]

......I was in mlnl soda once(duluth) so cold me & me 914 almost
burned up!!

....GO DINO....

[smj]

it has nothing to do with the newness of the rebuild..

Appreciate the info, and realize comments may not be directed at me per se. Importance of using correct oil from first fill forward noted.

But in my case, I said "running again." Mine had sat a couple years, but now it's running again - no rebuild. It was smoking a lot for various reasons, but after some miles and Tom Amon's last visit I just get a little smoke on startup and that's it.

Either way, eager to put the right oil and a new Mahle filter in there Real Soon Now...

[Thestigz06]

Valvoline straight 40W pure dino oil. What do you think the Germans were using 40 years ago? My car has never run better and cooler in hotter temps.

(IMG:style_emoticons/default/agree.gif) Single weight is the way to go. Although i do have to say im a Castrol Man!

Castrol HD 40wt 1.7 with no real mods

Single weight is the way to go?? Oof. Where do you live?

I'll give on some of the additives topic and how you may or may not prove it in all your glorious 200k+ engines.

But stating that single-weight is the only way to go is dumb. Beyond dumb. I used to swear by straight 30W. Then I realized I wasn't the only person on this side of the planet. There's the rest of the world, dumbasses. Break out of your bubble...

Please at least consider your seasons and climates. Would you really run 40 in sub zero winter temps?

But more to the point since we have an expert on hand....


Please explain your understanding of multi-viscosity oils and their additives over time. And please include your scientific results regarding your observations of the importance of zinc and phosphorus as they pertain to the longevity of the type IV engine.

In regards to where i live you can refrence the space right under my avatar. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/biggrin.gif)

Prehaps saying its the ONLY way to go may have been somewhat daft being that there is different applications for different use of our cars, however you do have to account for the fact that these motors were designed to run on single weight. And the Germans build quality on the majority of their cars isn't quite what one would call sub-par. They may have had good idea or two. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/confused24.gif)

I live in southern california. We have winter weather a total of maybe 2 weeks out of the whole year. The rest of the time its Sunny skys and swim shorts. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)

Ive talked to many motor builders here in southern california who swear by single weight and advised me to do my own research. Now keep in mind i am in NO WAY saying Castrol HD or any single weight would be the best but it keeps my temps down in my car better then multi-weights i have tried and what she was originally designed to run on.

Some (Lengthy)reading material for you sir:
Motor oil Wear Test Results

Your beloved Brad Penn didn't seem to do too well.

Oh and calm down we all have our own opinions based off what we have heard, seen, experienced, etc. We're all friends here so there's no sense in trolling on anyone who doesn't agree with you. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/bye1.gif)

[cgnj]

Hi,

I'm so tired of this arguement, I have to chime in. I have no dog in this fight, only my own experiences. Not one of you has a Phd in chemistry and works as a formulation scientist for an oil company. You all cite studies, but who was the researcher and what was thier curriculum vitæ like?

My car bud is a formlations scientist for a major oil company. We met about 15 years ago while our sons played Little League (they were the worst two players on the team). He remarked to me at one of the games that he didn't realize that I was an "Aircooled Head" and told me that he had a 914 in his barn (it's a 72).

Anyway this was about the time that I started building my 2270 and the lifter failure and cam failure issues first surfaced in the late 90's. I spent over 1k$ over the cost of off the shelf Webcam products for Schbecks and shipping and machining to avoid a lifter/cam failer on my 2270 build.

One night at the lake, we talked about this issue in depth. His scientific conclusions and my experience? No scientfic reason not to run syth/engineered oil in an air cooled motor. My experiece - I spin my 2270 till the pill cuts in (7.5k). Ran syth/engineered oil from day one. Still on the road baby.

[euro911]

You may be correct in stating that none of us who has posted here has a PhD in chemistry, but that's not the point.

For those of us who aren't PhDs (apparently, including yourself), we will have to rely on the information provided by the product's manufacturers as to the benefits of their composition, or from end users' experiences, just as you have provided.

I do have a 'dog in the fight' ... I want my new engine to run for many miles (IMG:style_emoticons/default/dog.gif)

[turk22]

this is very timely topic since I just got my car. The PO did an oil change using 20w50 Castrol.

I'll be looking at my options going forward.

Turk

[mankowski]

Brad Penn 10-30 in my 1.7 w/232K

[Drums66]

.....Back in the day, Valvoline was my main DINO(good chit)
don't know if they changed formula(recipe)??

[monkeyboy]

Everything with a API certification has changed their formulations. They had to due to the new requirements. I haven't seen an API rated oil that met the standards we need. Even the diesel oils scare me.

I just did an oil change this weekend. Swapped in some Joe Gibbs Aircooled oil. Nothing scientific yet, but I did note right away that it smelled like the oils of the past. That can't be a bad thing.

[brant]

Diesel oils are also changed and no longer good


Carlos,
this isn't a synthetic versus dino debate
this is about the anti shock properties of the additives that used to cusion the contact points of the cam and lifters....


All of the oils with API certification (dino and synthetic) have had these additives removed now because over a 100,000 life span these additives damage catalytic converters.

so to improve the life of emissions equiptment the requirements have changed to be certified.

This changed happened about 7 years ago
your cam/lifter failure probably happened on the old and good stuff
now modern oils will not protect the metal to metal contact of flat tappet engines

I have seen a recent lifter wore through.. yes with a hole wore through
more commonly you will see cam lobes wore down
ask the chevy v8 guys... heck ask any true performance car guy from any marquee....

I agreee with the above
all of the API certified oils with modern certification are missing the correct additives.

[monkeyboy]

We had a cam go flat in my dad's Ford... Directly attributed to oil. It now runs hot rod oil, and a roller cam and lifters. You can't be too sure.

[Brodie]

I've been reading this thread with interest, and I thought that I would email Castrol and see what they recommended for air cooled engines. This is their response when I asked about what oil I should put in my 82 911 SC.


This ticket has been updated by IC - Castrol Representative



Thank you for contacting Castrol North America.

Castrol always recommends following the guidelines of the original engine manufacturer for the recommended grade and API specific to your application. This information can be found in the vehicles owner's manual or by contacting the manufacturer directly.

We do not have oil recommendations based on a specific type of engine. We have specific recommendations based on year, make and model of a vehicle. According to Castrol's lubrication guide recommended for the 1982 Porche 911 is the following:

For Mineral based oil:
Above 14F: 20W-50
Above 5F: 15W-40, 15W-50
-4 to 95F: 10W-40, 10W-50
-13 to 68F: 10W-30
-22 to 32F: 5W-30
Below 14F: 5W-20

Synthetic Based Oils:
32 to 105F: 10W-30. 10W40, 10w-50
All temperatures: 5W-30, 5W-40, 5W-50

Thank you for contacting Castrol.

Castrol Consumer Relations




I imagine that they don't want to stick their necks out too far, and that is why they have made the disclaimer for reading your manual. I would like to know from an oil engineer what have they done in modern oils to replace the zinc and other materials that made the old stuff "good" for air cooled engines. I'll see if I can get a response. Wish me luck!

[Rand]

Oh and calm down we all have our own opinions based off what we have heard, seen, experienced, etc. We're all friends here so there's no sense in trolling on anyone who doesn't agree with you. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/bye1.gif)

Every now and then I get a little strong with my words when I get fired up about some posts that have bad information. I apologize for the way I came across. I was actually more calm than it sounded - I probably just had a couple beers too many and lost my online tact, forgot the smileys, etc. But it wasn't trolling. And I don't argue just because someone doesn't agree with me.

Hey, who knows, many of us won't put enough miles on our 914s to even notice any potential difference. Run Wesson oil if you want. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/tongue.gif)

The points I do want to be clear on though:
1. Today's dino oil ain't the same as it was when they printed the owners manual. Maybe it's good enough. For some it isn't.
2. One should not believe a blanket statement like straight 40W is the only way to go for everyone in every climate.

(IMG:style_emoticons/default/dead horse.gif)

Hey Thestigz06: Thanks for your service. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/beerchug.gif)

[Drums66]

[quote name='Rand' date='Aug 13 2012, 07:25 PM' post='1723473']
[quote name='Thestigz06' post='1721836' date='Aug 10 2012, 10:56 AM']
Oh and calm down we all have our own opinions based off what we have heard, seen, experienced, etc. We're all friends here so there's no sense in trolling on anyone who doesn't agree with you. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/bye1.gif)
[/quote]

......Hope to see you at 1 of our south Cali gatherings, so I can thank you
personally for your service sir!(Thestigz06)

Hey Thestigz06: Thanks for your service. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/beerchug.gif)