009 Distributor 90* off? Options

[bandjoey]

Troubleshooting through items to start the motor. 73 2.0

Moved the motor to get cylinder #1 to TCD. At TDC the timing marks line up on the fan but the distributor rotor is not lined up at the notch in the distributor...see pic..

The rotor is lined up with the wire to cyl #1.

Is this a 009 quirk, or is the distributor installed 90* off??

[McMark]

The notch is different on the 009. As long as TDC #1 lines up with spark plug wire #1, you're good. The actual orientation of the distributor doesn't matter (aside from physical limitations, such as not being able to unclip the cap because of the orientation)

[benalishhero]

lets get a pic of the drive with the dizzy out.

[bandjoey]

Thanks Mark. It was my understanding that ...you can only install the distributor 180 off, not 90? This was a running motor when I got it and I didn't take out the distributor, but wanted to check on the alignment mark before moving on.
(IMG:style_emoticons/default/biggrin.gif)

[TheCabinetmaker]

The diz will only go in one way. The drive gear will go in several different ways.

[02loftsmoor]

did you have the DIZ out???

[Black22]

Are you sure that's the TDC notch on the distributor? It looks like a ding to me. It's at an angle too. My distributors TDC mark is nowhere near my Pertronix unit as yours seems to be. My TDC notch would be located near the area we cannot see under your rotor!

[avidfanjpl]

Looks wrong, Joey.

My experience is that the mark and the rotor are BOTH aiming at Cyl 1 when you are certain that the rotor is pointing at 1 AND the mark is right under it. It must not start or even misfire looking like that.

But I could be wrong.

I never did see an angled mark in any 009 dizzy in 38 years, but you have an angled cut.

Is that an aftermarket nonvac model?

John

[aircooledtechguy]

The notch is off because the tang on the 009 dizzy is in a slightly different orientation to the shaft/rotor than the original dizzy that came in the motor. Just like the condensers mount differently for the space confine of particular motors, this also makes the rotor in a different place when you swap one dizzy to another motor. As Mark mentioned, the motor doesn't care where the rotor points at TDC; only that the right plug wire is there.

Another reason for the rotor pointing in the wrong direction is that when you assemble a type-4 motor, the Bentley manual tells you to install the drive gear in a different orientation @ TDC compared to a type-1 (beetle motor) which is what the 009 was meant for.

FYI: Be sure to check to see that you are getting the full 22-24 degrees of advance out of that aftermarket "009". These Chinese knock-offs are notorious for having either too much advance or almost none (usually the later). I don't use the new 009 clones at my shop due to too many problems with the advance. I have found it better to find good used German or Brazilian 009s as the quality is better (I never thought I would ever say those words in the same sentence (IMG:style_emoticons/default/blink.gif) ) The best way to check is with a timing light w/ advance.

[eitnurg]

There's a story on the rounds that No 3 cyl on T1 engines was run a few degrees retarded due higher temps. If the dizzy is "off" then it will no longer be No3 that does this. Is this feature present on this dizzy - or does it even matter for t4 engines?

[bandjoey]

This is a motor from one of World members, running a year ago when i bought it but just now installing it. I never removed the distributor but now I'm knocking down all of the not starting possibliities. When I saw the mark on the distributor, I had to check for the possiblity it was running (somehow) with the distributor at 90* off.

Verified TDC #1 with the spark plug out, and using this rotor position over #1 plug wire, matched up all the plug wires to the right cylinders.

Good Spark and no other electrical issues, so next is to recheck the valve adjustment. I might have adjusted #3 cyl wrong. The motor tries to start but backfires smoke out of the carb on #3 and then that carb has a heavy amount of gas fumes/smoke inside the venturi. So... If valves are adjusted then it looks like a carb overhaul.

Always had the carb venturi plugged so the possbility of something falling inside is rare.

Suggestions welcome and will report back in a few days after checking the valves.
Thanks (IMG:style_emoticons/default/driving-girl.gif)

[bandjoey]

Aircooledtechguy made a statement about timing advancce that makes me think...I've not checked the timing since the distributor is positioned just like I bought the motor.

Is there a way to static check the advance timing on the 009? How?

[aircooledtechguy]

Aircooledtechguy made a statement about timing advancce that makes me think...I've not checked the timing since the distributor is positioned just like I bought the motor.

Is there a way to static check the advance timing on the 009? How?

Unfortunately you do not have the ability to statically time your motor if you have one of the pointless ignition systems installed like Compufire, Pertronix, etc. The only way to do it is while running with a strobe.

You can estimate it though by just ensuring that the rotor tip is in about the correct position in relation to where the contact in the cap is. If, when you try and start it, it seems to fight the starter, that means the timing is too far advanced. So retard the distributor by turning it CLOCKWISE in it's bore.

In general, a motor will start with it's timing way to the advanced side, but not if it's equally off on the retard side. So it's best to guess too advanced and correct it once it's running.

Many-a-motor have been tuned to a hault by having the plug wires in the wrong order. I've seen folks spend days of frustration trying to start a motor and spend a lot of money changing good parts when with the plug wires are on in the wrong order. . . Just to re-cap: get the motor on TDC #1 (pull a valve cover and ensure BOTH valves are loose). Install that wire to #1. From there in a CLOCKWISE order #4, #3, #2. The cylinder numbers are conveniently stamped into the tin. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/poke.gif) I've just seen this too many times to not mention it. . .

You'll get it!! You're on the precipice of greatness!!