First Look: 914-6 Alloy Rear Calipers, ...about 30 days out. Options

[tomeric914]

The Brembos were cast copies of ATE steel A-Calipers. Hey Rob, how are your Brembos working out?

Yea Eric, my Brembo's are working great too. Thanks for asking! (I kid of course, I know Rob volunteered)

So yea, I'd be happy to test out the aluminum 911 rear variant for you Eric to go along with these.

(IMG:http://www.914world.com/bbs2/uploads/post-9101-1313335467.jpg)

[jmill]

(IMG:style_emoticons/default/wub.gif) Sweet!!

I need these to go along with the S calipers I bought for you. I can't spare the coin just yet. Just a matter of time.

[Eric_Shea]

We can rebuild anything.

Steel isn't difficult to machine. You're still talking about good money for bad.

If you do not offer the machining ....... then ...... if I were to send you my pair of steel 1968 ATE 'M' calipers already machined at the mounting flange, would you be able to rebuild them? Maybe I can search for someone with a larger mill ...

I take it you are talking about machining a solid rotor (68) m-caliper to fit on a late model 914 strut. After reviewing all of these options many times, I fail to see the value in that. Here's why:

1. Exact same pad size as a 914 caliper.
2. Same solid rotor will not shed heat any faster.
3. Need to machine 914 rotor/hubs to 5-lug every time you need a new ones (if that's what you're doing).
4. Larger 48mm piston will throw off the bias unless you go with a rather expensive rear solution, but then...

....again, why not put that money toward 911 struts that offer a real benifit (larger bearings, lightweight hub assembly with vented rotors that weigh the same as a solid 914 rotor/hub assembly)? They simply bolt to your a-arms. Or - just stick with the stock late model 914 front caliper. It has thicker pads anyway.

So... Rear Calipers. Should go into final machine consulting today. I hope to have final pricing this week as well.

[ConeDodger]

Mark told me about these last week and I actually kept my big mouth shut. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/biggrin.gif)

You guys are amazing!!!

Mark told me about these about a year ago and I kept my mouth shut. Except to bug Mark and Erc about when they would be done! (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)

[ConeDodger]

Well now I know why I didn't here back from you (IMG:style_emoticons/default/dry.gif)

Who the hell needs 6 sets of used 914 calipers and a few sets of 944-Turbos when you got these toys on your kitchen table (IMG:style_emoticons/default/beer.gif)

Congrats Eric.

Oh, still return my PM - Umm, sometime (IMG:style_emoticons/default/yellowsleep[1].gif)

Wing, you clearly don't know about Erc's house. He lives with three women and has an almost endless parade of his wife's Brazilian - supermodel friends coming in and out of the house. If it weren't for Rio his dog, he would have the only Y chromosomes in the house.

Bottom line - there aren't any 'toy' car parts on his kitchen table! (IMG:style_emoticons/default/rolleyes.gif)

[gothspeed]

We can rebuild anything.

Steel isn't difficult to machine. You're still talking about good money for bad.

If you do not offer the machining ....... then ...... if I were to send you my pair of steel 1968 ATE 'M' calipers already machined at the mounting flange, would you be able to rebuild them? Maybe I can search for someone with a larger mill ...

I take it you are talking about machining a solid rotor (68) m-caliper to fit on a late model 914 strut. After reviewing all of these options many times, I fail to see the value in that. Here's why:

1. Exact same pad size as a 914 caliper.
2. Same solid rotor will not shed heat any faster.
3. Need to machine 914 rotor/hubs to 5-lug every time you need a new ones (if that's what you're doing).
4. Larger 48mm piston will throw off the bias unless you go with a rather expensive rear solution, but then...

....again, why not put that money toward 911 struts that offer a real benifit (larger bearings, lightweight hub assembly with vented rotors that weigh the same as a solid 914 rotor/hub assembly)? They simply bolt to your a-arms. Or - just stick with the stock late model 914 front caliper. It has thicker pads anyway.

So... Rear Calipers. Should go into final machine consulting today. I hope to have final pricing this week as well.

Thank you for your time Eric. Yes, I have the solid rotor 'M' caliper and was gonna use them on stock late rotors (1973). I don't want to be a pain, I understand what you are saying and yes, what you describe is certainly 100% better but I have already bought new strut inserts, new brake pads and pin set, 19mm master and machined/drilled my stock rotors (5 lug). I only need to machine fit the 'M' calipers and this part will be done (for now). Down the road, if I ever get to drive this car and wear these rotors out, I will look into it again.

This car is not my main project and I unfortunately cannot just keep adding "while I am in there" parts, effort and time. I spent more years and money than I planned on and would hope to drive it before I die. This whole car project seems to be good money after bad (IMG:style_emoticons/default/popcorn[1].gif) .... I have already spent plenty on the very nice 2056cc and I still need to:

weld the flares
buy flared rockers / valences
do all body work
add body deadner
paint the whole car
install new weather stripping

then

the entire interior still needs to be done
buy tires and space the 7 & 8 x 16 fuchs to fill the flares
intall rear sway bar (front is done (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif) )
maybe rebuild gear box (probably big project in itself)
install new fuel pump
put the fuel tank back in
redo engine wiring / fuel lines for carbs
setup shift linkage, throttle / clutch cables
etc.......

So I just need some help fitting the 'M' calipers, so I can put the rotors on and bleed the brakes. Otherwise I will just throw the 'M' calipers in the ocean and put the stockers back on ...... which now, almost sounds like the thing to do ... (IMG:style_emoticons/default/sad.gif) ....................... (IMG:style_emoticons/default/yellowsleep[1].gif)

[balljoint]

(IMG:style_emoticons/default/biggrin.gif)

[Eric_Shea]

(IMG:style_emoticons/default/headbang.gif)

[gothspeed]

(IMG:style_emoticons/default/headbang.gif)

Yeah! That is how I felt when I was looking for 911 struts (IMG:style_emoticons/default/beerchug.gif) !


Edit: Do these struts use a standard 914 strut insert and fit the lower ball joint of my 1973?

http://www.914world.com/bbs2/index.php?sho...p;#entry1727150

[SLITS]

No, you would have to change to the early style ball joints ( 1/2 round moon cutout instead of the later wedge).

[sixnotfour]

do you need some wedge bolt T struts ??? i know of a few..

some 7&8x16 fuchs (al reed refinished)
2.0-3.4 6cyl

[gothspeed]

Thanks for the response Slits! It has always been something when I was looking for struts (IMG:style_emoticons/default/laugh.gif)


So would the early ball joint fit my late a-arm?

and lastly would my stock new 'strut insert' fit in these struts? .......... edit: this question answered by seller

do you need some wedge bolt T struts ??? i know of a few..

some 7&8x16 fuchs (al reed refinished)
2.0-3.4 6cyl

Yes, with hubs, vented rotors and M calipers that will fit my 1973 and use stock 914 inserts ..... and not bent (IMG:style_emoticons/default/wink.gif)

I moved conversation about the struts to strut link.

Sorry for the high-jack Eric ... (IMG:style_emoticons/default/sunglasses.gif)

[Eric_Shea]

Oh no worries... I'm going to take all of the pictures of my flexible aluminum calipers out so we can discuss your front end needs... Ad nauseam.

[SLITS]

Thanks for the response Slits! It has always been something when I was looking for struts (IMG:style_emoticons/default/laugh.gif)


So would the early ball joint fit my late a-arm?

The A arms are the same and YES an early ball joint will fit your late A arm. It is the strut you are applying that determines the ball joint needed or the ball joint determines the strut needed. Swap back and forth all you want, but you must match the ball joint to the strut.

An early strut has a slit in the bottom. A bolt with a nut goes thru the hole and when tightened "pinches" the bottom of the strut to hold the shaft of the ball joint. The ball joint shaft has a 1/2 round (1/2 moon) cutout in it for the bolt to pass.

A late strut does not have the slit. It uses a "double taper pin" (wedge) held in place by a nut. The ball joint shaft has a "wedge shaped" cutout in the shaft so the double taper pin locks it in place.

914 shocks fit 914 struts. 911 shocks fit 911 struts. They are different, as I remember, the 911 strut has a taper to it towards the bottom and the 914 does not.

Just for confusion, there is at least one more style ball joint fitted to early 911s ('65 - '68) or something like that.

[Matt Romanowski]

Oh no worries... I'm going to take all of the pictures of my flexible aluminum calipers out so we can discuss your front end needs... Ad nauseam.

Before we do that, can you share what alloy they are? People here seem to think that all aluminum is the same.

[mepstein]

Oh no worries... I'm going to take all of the pictures of my flexible aluminum calipers out so we can discuss your front end needs... Ad nauseam.

Before we do that, can you share what alloy they are? People here seem to think that all aluminum is the same.

And if it's not too much to ask, your last 10 years of tax returns.

[sixnotfour]

A356-T-6 My Guess

[bandjoey]

I started out with a Schwinn Paramount racing around the Cotton Bowl in Dallas way back in the 70's. Johnny Milsap (and you know who Johnny is ! ) was my first coach, semi retired after earning 4 olympic medals ! Then I moved onto several progressively stouter stronger and lighter steel alloy bikes from Guerciotti to Bianchi to De Rosa. DAMN! After all those stiff steel frames, the DAMN BRAKES JUST KEEP ON GETTING LIGHTER MADE OUT OF ALUMINUM AND BOY DO THEY FLEX! Just 2 weeks ago Lance Armstrong was caught by a reporter lamenting - and I quote - "Where have all the Steel Brakes gone?"

Now that I've hung up the cycling clips, I stare endlessly at my old Raleigh with the Steel Brake Calipers (Chrome Plated no less) and dream of those happy ball busting stops on Steel! Nuff Said! Live Long Steel Brakes! (IMG:style_emoticons/default/stirthepot.gif)

[gothspeed]

Thanks for the response Slits! It has always been something when I was looking for struts (IMG:style_emoticons/default/laugh.gif)

So would the early ball joint fit my late a-arm?

The A arms are the same and YES an early ball joint will fit your late A arm. It is the strut you are applying that determines the ball joint needed or the ball joint determines the strut needed. Swap back and forth all you want, but you must match the ball joint to the strut.

An early strut has a slit in the bottom. A bolt with a nut goes thru the hole and when tightened "pinches" the bottom of the strut to hold the shaft of the ball joint. The ball joint shaft has a 1/2 round (1/2 moon) cutout in it for the bolt to pass.

A late strut does not have the slit. It uses a "double taper pin" (wedge) held in place by a nut. The ball joint shaft has a "wedge shaped" cutout in the shaft so the double taper pin locks it in place.

914 shocks fit 914 struts. 911 shocks fit 911 struts. They are different, as I remember, the 911 strut has a taper to it towards the bottom and the 914 does not.

Just for confusion, there is at least one more style ball joint fitted to early 911s ('65 - '68) or something like that.

Great post and thank you Slits! These details you noted are the kind of things that are known with first hand experience! I tried to find this stuff out by searching and asking in the past ..... but you know how that goes, sometimes questions do not go over very well (IMG:style_emoticons/default/laugh.gif)

Are the early ball joints not as good as the later ball joints? I am wondering why they changed the design ......... unlike many people I cannot just dump endless money and time, on each and every part of the car .... so I have to be careful that a misinformed decision could end up costing me extra dough. because then the project stops (IMG:style_emoticons/default/headbang.gif)

Thanks again for your great help, patience and for sharing your knowledge!!

[ChrisFoley]

914 shocks fit 914 struts. 911 shocks fit 911 struts. They are different, as I remember, the 911 strut has a taper to it towards the bottom and the 914 does not.

Thats not correct. Inserts for Boge struts fit the struts from either car.
Any differences would be based on the weight distribution of the vehicle.