Megasquirt Project, .....IT RUNS ! Options

[jpnovak]

James, Excellent description of the process to baseline the timing output.

I am surprised that you do not have better than 85kPa at idle. Even with ITBs and a bigger cam on my 911 I could see better vacuum numbers than this.

If you put your had over the throttle do you actually feel vacuum? I suspect you might have an air leak. I use my compressor to put about 10psi through the vacuum port that the MS unit is connected to. Then listen for air leaks. You may have to tape off the throttle body to seal that end while you listen for leaks. Any common plenum should give you more of a vacuum at idle - even with narrow cam lobe ceters on a hot cam.

You may try the MS Extra code in ITB mode to transition the switch from speed-density to alpha-n at low rpm.

[Michelj13]

I had a bit of a breakthrough last night. I swapped my injector plugs around "just to see" and this resulted in a much smoother running engine. It was dark and I am not sure who is on who, but it ran better, no doubt. Also, it was idling (1000 rpm)at TDC instead on 5 ATDC! VE analyse was working too (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)


James,your description of timing in excellent. Thanks. I printed the timing label and cut it out and compared it with the markings on my fan. It all matches. I even calculated the distance between fan blades to 7.3 degrees! My friend has a timing light with wasted spark setting that I need to borrow to confirm my timing.

JP, I have been wondering about air leaks also. I will try your suggestion Thanks. OMG, alpha N again (IMG:style_emoticons/default/confused24.gif) I will try that too to see.

It is amazing how much fuel I am using tuning this thing!

[JamesM]

Stay away from Alpha-N for now, that should be the absolute last resort. From what I have read about your cam, and the fact that you are running from a common plenum I dont think you will need to go there.

You will be suprised how much timing and fuel changes can affect your idle vaccum, I was.

[Michelj13]

Well, I have been fighting a few issues before going on my first 5 mile drive. One of them, was a huge vacuum leak. I found a piece of wire lodged between the head and intake manifold. This caused the gasket to break and the result was a high pitched whistling sound when reving. I also added clamps to the boots connecting the intake runners to the plenum. I use a stetoscope to detect these leaks. I am also building a smoke machine to play with.

Now with a few less vacumm leaks I ran the car about 5 miles. The engine is surprising strong. Staying below 2500 Rpm, the engine pulls smoothly and nicely. When stopping, the engine almost dies, drops to 700 rpm and the climbs back up to 1000 before settling, so I need to work on the idle. I would love to see how folks are setting up their WUE etc.

After 2500 rpm, the there are a few hits as it climbs to 4000, but it kept pulling really hard to almost 5K. Wow, I can't wait to get this thing dialed in.

There is still so much to learn too. Wish I had gone to COP instead of CNP using ford coils and Type 4 ignition wires. The wires are not up to the task of shielding such a high voltage ( I have suffered at least 3 shocks (IMG:style_emoticons/default/w00t.gif) )

[Sneezy]

So you guys are spending hundreds and hundreds of hours and who knows how much money and you end up with batch firing and stock sized intake runners?

[DBCooper]

No.

But what's your point, really?

.

[jpnovak]

Glad to hear you found the vacuum leak. did this help your MAP reading at low rpm? I suspect so.

The car should be easy to tune now.

If the car wants to die during off-throttle coast-down you need to check the decel fuel cut limit. raise the rpm limit a few hundred. You can also add timing to the lowest bins in the table at idle.

Don't forget that the stock MAP and rpm values rarely match each engine. Adjust these to match the lowest MAP reading in the second or third row. Then scale the rpm for your idle and redline. Then start tuning the engine. No sense in having rpm values to 7000 if you redline at 5500. Also, stop the MAP readings at 100kPa or close to this. No need to go higher unless you are running boost.

btw, if you are getting shocked then you might have a ground issue. Check the ground from coil to ground and plugs as well. You should not get shocked. It also could be that the wires are not seated properly at the plugs.

[JamesM]

So you guys are spending hundreds and hundreds of hours and who knows how much money and you end up with batch firing and stock sized intake runners?

Seriously, what is your point?

Troll much? Not sure this even justifies a response but:

1. Nothing wrong with batch firing. Seqnential injection has little if any advantage as under load you are still firing on closed valves with either setup. Also MS can be setup to do sequential injection but again, no point in spending the time to do it.

2. Changing intake runner size? Why? Going with larger intake runners is not some magic bullet to net more power. It may shift the power band some and it could also decrease power. Also, again, he is not locked with these with MS but chose to use them.

3. I think i spent about 100 bucks converting my car to MS.

4. Seeing as how all the parts used are pretty much bolt on, even going the hard way like i did and solder my own board you are looking at maybe 20-40 hours.

I am not sure what you think the point of a custom fuel injection is, but the main advantage here is tuneability and replacement of NLA parts, not magically making your car go faster by ignoring the laws of physics.



Now that i have laid out the facts, back to the original point of your troll post (being a troll post) As to not dissapoint, here is a response for that too:

1. How is that "Tornado Air Intake" working out for you? Pulling some big numbers?

2. You are an @$$hat.

Good day Sir!

[FourBlades]

Great progress. I have enjoyed following this thread. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/first.gif)

I think a lot of people have thought about putting MS on their 914.

Now your thread even has haters and drama! (IMG:style_emoticons/default/piratenanner.gif) (IMG:style_emoticons/default/blink.gif)

John

[JamesM]

Great progress. I have enjoyed following this thread. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/first.gif)

I think a lot of people have thought about putting MS on their 914.

Now your thread even has haters and drama! (IMG:style_emoticons/default/piratenanner.gif) (IMG:style_emoticons/default/blink.gif)

John

All in good fun! (IMG:style_emoticons/default/biggrin.gif) (IMG:style_emoticons/default/biggrin.gif) (IMG:style_emoticons/default/biggrin.gif)

[Michelj13]

JP. I like your your idea of re-scaling my MAP table. I will do that for sure.

As I have said, there are still more vacuum leaks, but at least I got rid of the big ones. Unfortunately, my MAP value at idle is still only about 70. I am not too happy about that from what I know so far. Maybe the camshaft is causing this?

So you guys are spending hundreds and hundreds of hours and who knows how much money and you end up with batch firing and stock sized intake runners?

Sure, this project has cost me about $1000, but with me, the journey is a HUGE part of the fun! At the end of the day, I have learned quite a bit, and this may open doors for more MS projects (ie MS moded VW Corrado comes to mind). I need to follow through with this one though and then the plan is to document all my settings, wiring, and what I would have done different ( I can think of a thing or two already ).

[ddv005]

So you guys are spending hundreds and hundreds of hours and who knows how much money and you end up with batch firing and stock sized intake runners?

You forgot to say that it is a stand alone , fully programmable engine management batch firing system (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)

I dare you tell me what is a better solution ?

[Michelj13]

After a rather long hiatus, I will attempt to get my 914 Megasquirt project running again. In March of 2013, I removed the MS harness because my idle valve was not working (it was mis-wired), then I found out that I had to move from the home I had been in for over 17 years.
I had a lot of fixin to get the house ready for sale, and the new house had plenty of stuff that needed attention too. Now that things have settled down, I am diving back in to the 914.
I made some changes, went from using the ford CNP to LS2 coils, and cleaned up the wiring. I hope to have the car at least started by the new year. I am slow but steady.
Here is a link to latest youtube video.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=honxgcZVcjo...eature=youtu.be

[McMark]

Didn't read the whole thread, but did see the bit about swapping injector plugs. Most people wire their injectors in opposing pairs (#1 and #3, #2 and #4) but this isn't ideal. You want to pair them in the firing order. Our firing order is 1-4-3-2. So #1 and #4 should be paired and #3 and #2 should be paired.

[Michelj13]

Hi Mark,

I did noticed the 1+3 and 2+4 injector pairing on a few of the threads also. I had 1+4 paired on INJ2 and 2+3 paired together on INJ1. So, I swapped them so that INJ1 has 1+4 and INJ2 has the 2+3 pair.

Thank you

[Mike Bellis]

I think the effect on a batch fire injector out of order would be negligible. We are talking about milliseconds of injector time 700-6000 times per minute.

If it were direct fire, the effect would be substantial.

[Michelj13]

As I have said in the past, I am slow but steady. Had a chance to install the new harnesses and both the "new" LS2 driver board and relay board (with tach adapter in place of one of the relays).

Once I got it hooked up, changed the oil and gas, filters etc. it started right up. Amazing!!

I tuned it up a bit around the block several times and went to visit a friend - about 5 miles away. It runs great to about 3500rpm (with tons of torque, can even start in 2nd gear from stop, but then has a hard time reving past that point with low power. Lots of tuning to do yet.

I was almost at friends house when the engine reved up and then RPM dropped to idle barely keeping engine running. I discovered that the MAP sensor tubing got chopped in fan as I did not secure it to anything. I fixed it temporarily with outer insulation of a coax cable and tape. I think it was still leaking but it got me home. So, total trip was 10 miles.

Next phase of project is learning more about tuning, VE table, advance curves that work best, etc. Wish I knew someone in the area with a lot of Megasquirt experience.

Here are a few photos of harness and relay and ignition boards

[toon1]

As I have said in the past, I am slow but steady. Had a chance to install the new harnesses and both the "new" LS2 driver board and relay board (with tach adapter in place of one of the relays).

Once I got it hooked up, changed the oil and gas, filters etc. it started right up. Amazing!!

I tuned it up a bit around the block several times and went to visit a friend - about 5 miles away. It runs great to about 3500rpm (with tons of torque, can even start in 2nd gear from stop, but then has a hard time reving past that point with low power. Lots of tuning to do yet.

I was almost at friends house when the engine reved up and then RPM dropped to idle barely keeping engine running. I discovered that the MAP sensor tubing got chopped in fan as I did not secure it to anything. I fixed it temporarily with outer insulation of a coax cable and tape. I think it was still leaking but it got me home. So, total trip was 10 miles.

Next phase of project is learning more about tuning, VE table, advance curves that work best, etc. Wish I knew someone in the area with a lot of Megasquirt experience.

Here are a few photos of harness and relay and ignition boards

I didn't read the whole thread.....

Are you running the LS coils in wasted spark mode or Sequential?


As far as timing and VE tuning it's trial and error.

I have found that bringing in timing quickly has worked well.

My VE tables are about 43(approx. 13:1 AFR) at idle and in the 60's in normal driving area.

VE is in the 70's under harder accel.

As far as AE enrichment, it's dependent on how you drive.

[Michelj13]

Tooni, thanks for info. LS coils are presently connected in wasted spark mode, but, connections for sequential are there except for a couple of jumpers and cam sensor signal needed.

I feel the LS coil conversion reduced the noise at the MSU significantly. Now, my USB connection never drops (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)

Wish I would have gone that way from the beginning (IMG:style_emoticons/default/headbang.gif)

[toon1]

Tooni, thanks for info. LS coils are presently connected in wasted spark mode, but, connections for sequential are there except for a couple of jumpers and cam sensor signal needed.

I feel the LS coil conversion reduced the noise at the MSU significantly. Now, my USB connection never drops (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)

Wish I would have gone that way from the beginning (IMG:style_emoticons/default/headbang.gif)

I was just reading some of the thread....James suggested to set the "base" timing to 7.5*.

If you are using a 36-1 TW and set it up, on the engine, as per the Mega manual, 7.5* is wrong.

The default is 10* BTDC. This could be why your MAP is so high. I have the 9550 can and my map at idle is 45ish KPa.

My advance at idle is about 13.5*