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> OT: Airline Crash Report, This just doesn't make any sense
Randal
post Oct 26 2004, 08:28 AM
Post #1


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I really can't believe the article I've attached below.

It's difficult to fathom that any pilot can induce the rudder to fall off an airplane, regardless of the situation?

What's going on here?

Here is the article.

Pilot, Rudder May Share Blame for Airbus Crash

By Sara Kehaulani Goo
Washington Post Staff Writer
Tuesday, October 26, 2004; Page A02

An American Airlines pilot is likely to be blamed by government investigators for causing the crash of Flight 587, which plunged into a Queens neighborhood on Nov. 12, 2001, killing all on board and five people on the ground, according to sources familiar with the probe, but aircraft design is also likely to be cited as a contributing factor.

The National Transportation Safety Board will today hear the findings of its staff investigators and may vote as early as today on a final determination of the probable cause of the accident. It is also expected to discuss whether there was adequate communication about safety issues related to the aircraft. The crash attracted global attention because it occurred two months after terrorists attacked New York and the Pentagon.



The Airbus A300-600, heading for the Dominican Republic, crashed shortly after takeoff, killing 260 aboard and five people on the ground in Queens. (Victor Nicastro -- AP)


The Airbus A300-600, heading for the Dominican Republic, encountered wake turbulence moments after takeoff from John F. Kennedy International Airport and crashed seconds later into the Rockaway Beach neighborhood of Queens, killing 260 aboard and five people on the ground. Investigators determined that the tail fell off the plane shortly before it went down.

American has waged an aggressive campaign in recent weeks to convince the NTSB board, its staff and the agency's investigative staff that the plane's manufacturer hid damning evidence of previous incidents involving the rudder of the same aircraft model. American's last-minute lobbying has succeeded in raising fresh doubts among some board members about whether American, Airbus SAS and the board communicated effectively about safe operation of the A300-600's rudder, according to sources familiar with the investigation who spoke on condition of anonymity because the findings were not official yet.

These sources believe the NTSB staff will still point to the pilot of Flight 587 and his back-and-forth pressure on the rudder foot pedals as the reason the tail came off and the plane crashed. The sources also said the sensitivity of the aircraft's rudder pedals is also likely to be cited as a contributing factor in the crash.

The board's decision could be used in lawsuits filed by relatives of those who died in the crash. American said 70 percent of the suits have been settled.

"It's easy to focus on what started the sequence of events" that led to the crash of Flight 587, said American spokesman Bruce Hicks. "But it ignores the root cause, which is system safety. . . . Airbus never told safety investigators about previous incidents."

As part of its evidence, American pointed to internal Airbus memos written after a nonfatal accident involving another American plane, also an Airbus A300-600. The memos from June 1997 show urgent concern among Airbus managers that the aircraft's rudder had sustained high loads, or stresses, after American Airlines Flight 903 to Miami stalled during a flight and the pilot used the rudder to try to recover. Internally, Airbus recommended that the plane be inspected "as soon as possible," but American claims that it was never informed of the memos until after Flight 587 crashed.

Airbus denied that it had been less than forthcoming about problems with its rudder. The European manufacturer provided several documents to American, including one signed four years before the crash by Airbus and rival manufacturers Boeing Co., McDonnell Douglas and the Federal Aviation Administration that jointly raised concerns about the way American trained pilots to use the rudder. The document indicated American taught its pilots to be aggressive in their use of the rudder, which could result in a "rapid loss of controlled flight."

The letter, dated Aug. 20, 1997, said, "The excessive emphasis on the superior effectiveness of the rudder for roll control . . . is a concern."

Airbus said its letter clearly warns American to correct its training, which the carrier said it did in updated training videos distributed to pilots. "I would agree that our communication to American and others, had it been taken to heart, might have indeed avoided this accident," said Clay McConnell, an Airbus spokesman. "I see no evidence that American pilots were untrained from their dangerous behavior."

Airbus said that the pilot's aggressive back-and-forth use of the rudder right after Flight 587 encountered wake turbulence led the tail of the aircraft to come off.

During the crash investigation, the NTSB issued a recommendation for Airbus to fix another component of its rudder on the A300-600 fleet, raising concerns among pilots about rudder performance.

The crash, pilots say, raised alarms because it involved a basic aircraft part that pilots do not use very much. The rudder, the flap on the vertical tail, moves right and left to help pilots land in a crosswind. It is also used to maneuver the airplane on the ground while taxiing.

"I don't think most pilots knew as much about rudder movement and the effects on the airplane even at low speeds," said Terry McVenes, executive air safety vice chairman at the Air Line Pilots Association, which represents pilots at several major carriers but not those at American.

American said it has seen a new opportunity to convince the board of its view because four of the five NTSB members have joined since the crash.
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Posts in this topic
Randal   OT: Airline Crash Report   Oct 26 2004, 08:28 AM
!   Airbus and an American Pilot.....the French manufa...   Oct 26 2004, 08:36 AM
TimT   FWIW i saw that plane fall out of the sky, at the ...   Oct 26 2004, 08:54 AM
MarkG   interesting to note that causes of crashes are vot...   Oct 26 2004, 08:57 AM
nebreitling   well THAT makes me feel comfortable.   Oct 26 2004, 09:47 AM
Pnambic   Hmmm....Expedia tells me what plane each leg of a ...   Oct 26 2004, 10:26 AM
rhodyguy   my airbus experience. got on one at denver. we wer...   Oct 26 2004, 10:48 AM
tdgray   I believe there was no plane.... I've got the ...   Oct 26 2004, 10:53 AM
tdgray   :agree: I am a little biased though.... my compa...   Oct 26 2004, 11:05 AM
rhodyguy   it's also a employment support issue for me. t...   Oct 26 2004, 11:18 AM
spare time toys   Its a composite tail. JUNK no way no how do I or ...   Oct 26 2004, 12:31 PM
SLITS   Don't do Airbus shit - it's French And, i...   Oct 26 2004, 01:04 PM
MarkG   ...   Oct 26 2004, 01:57 PM
redshift   Their planes are deadly shit. M   Oct 26 2004, 02:09 PM
SirAndy  
QUOTE
  Oct 26 2004, 02:48 PM
SLITS   <...   Oct 26 2004, 02:52 PM
SirAndy     Oct 26 2004, 03:04 PM
Randal  
QUOTE
  Oct 26 2004, 03:15 PM
SirAndy     Oct 26 2004, 03:21 PM
SLITS   Ok, the thingy that sticks up (unless you fly a Bo...   Oct 26 2004, 03:24 PM
SirAndy     Oct 26 2004, 03:28 PM
Randal  
QUOTE
  Oct 26 2004, 05:28 PM
SirAndy     Oct 26 2004, 05:41 PM
F4i   Avoidance of wake turbulance is the pilots respons...   Oct 26 2004, 05:50 PM
d7n7master   Aircraft Maintenance Log: Pilot: Something funny w...   Oct 26 2004, 05:56 PM
F4i   Righthand engine "missing" Engine found after...   Oct 26 2004, 06:03 PM
airsix  
  Oct 26 2004, 06:10 PM
SirAndy     Oct 26 2004, 06:14 PM
Randal  
QUOTE
  Oct 26 2004, 06:25 PM
Alison Baker   I flew KLM Airbus over to the States back in Augus...   Oct 26 2004, 06:27 PM
Pnambic   <...   Oct 26 2004, 06:39 PM
URY914   Here is a pic of "pilot error"   Oct 26 2004, 06:52 PM
Pnambic   See? Look at that! You can hit a truck with ...   Oct 26 2004, 06:54 PM
URY914   or this   Oct 26 2004, 06:55 PM
URY914   Or drag the wing of a 747 and its OK. The damn Fr...   Oct 26 2004, 06:56 PM
URY914   This one was on loan to the French Air Force... :D   Oct 26 2004, 07:00 PM
SpecialK     Oct 26 2004, 07:35 PM
TimT  
QUOTE
  Oct 26 2004, 08:04 PM
SpecialK     Oct 26 2004, 09:12 PM
dmenche914   An airline mechanic friend of mine related this st...   Oct 26 2004, 09:15 PM
Series9   Some more funny ones:   Oct 26 2004, 09:32 PM
Series9   two:   Oct 26 2004, 09:32 PM
Series9   three:   Oct 26 2004, 09:33 PM
Series9   four:   Oct 26 2004, 09:34 PM
Series9   five:   Oct 26 2004, 09:35 PM
Series9   six:   Oct 26 2004, 09:35 PM
Series9   seven:   Oct 26 2004, 09:36 PM
Series9   eight:   Oct 26 2004, 09:37 PM
Series9   nine:   Oct 26 2004, 09:37 PM
Series9   Last one:   Oct 26 2004, 09:38 PM
SLITS   Manuvering speed on an Aercoupe - prolly 70 MPH. ...   Oct 26 2004, 09:50 PM
SpecialK     Oct 26 2004, 10:53 PM
Elliot Cannon     Oct 26 2004, 11:37 PM
Series9   Does he drive a P car? Hahahahahahahahahahahahah...   Oct 26 2004, 11:48 PM
bob91403   American Airlines is the only one using these plan...   Oct 27 2004, 01:43 AM
J P Stein   From what I've read....thus far, a synopsis: ...   Oct 27 2004, 02:48 AM
bob91403   JP, you don't use rudder to correct roll, you ...   Oct 27 2004, 02:57 AM
J P Stein   According to the black box, he did ailerons first....   Oct 27 2004, 03:09 AM
bob91403   Yep, pilot error. He would have been better off to...   Oct 27 2004, 03:20 AM
Randal   How long does it take wake turbulence to dissipate...   Oct 27 2004, 08:32 AM
F4i   They stay fairly strong for the first two min. the...   Oct 27 2004, 09:11 PM
Howard     Oct 28 2004, 12:10 AM
airsix  
  Oct 28 2004, 12:54 AM


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