Another MS conversion, Progress, at last. Options

[r_towle]

This has not turned out as well as either Mark or I had hoped. He had the car for more than a week had found problems that he could not solve.

At the end of the day, there are two continuing problems. First, it is hard to start, this can be minimized if I open the throttle a bit. Second, the engine bucks at a little less than 2,000 rpm. Mark feels that the cam that have has too much overlap for Microsquirt to handle.

I have Aircooled Technology cam #9530 cam (similar to WebCam grind #494), valve lift .465 and duration of 288/298.

The rest of the engine: 2056, lightened flywheel, 9.5:1 compression, Aircooled Technology heads.

Here is the tune that we're using and datalogs of the start and bucking. If anyone has seen this before and has found a solution, I think both Mark and I would be very interested.

Crap, uploading these file extensions is not permitted. Others have done it, how???

thanks.

Maybe open up the files and take a screen shot of each one....that is typically shift/function and prtscrn
Then open up paint and paste that into paint....save as a jpg file.
Then upload

[VaccaRabite]

Interesting to read.
I am getting the same setup and am also running one of Jakes 9530 cams on a 2056.

I'll be paying special attention to what you needed to do to have it all work, as I am on the other side of the country and won't be able to pop over if I have an issue.

Zach

[JimN73]

I'll keep you posted, Zach. It's hard to believe that I'm the first one to install Microsquirt and a high overlap cam. I'm hoping that someone else can help.

Here is the tune file and two datalogging files.

https://dl.dropbox.com/u/53002397/MicroSqui...Mark%20Last.msq

https://dl.dropbox.com/u/53002397/MicroSqui...-11-02_buck.msl

https://dl.dropbox.com/u/53002397/MicroSqui...11-02_start.msl

[904svo]

I was running a web 86B cam in a 2ltr engine. What I found was MAF works best
using MAP the vacumn signature was not stable enought. I try TPS, this was unstable
also. I try MAF+TPS next this was better but not good enought for me. I then change
to MAF the engine ran great, smooth idle and pull like a dream through the entire
RPM range. Try it I'm sure you will like it better. Just my $.02

[McMark]

Hmmm... I'll have to do some research on MAF sensors. Sizing, placement, etc. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/idea.gif)

[ConeDodger]

Mark,
Would TPS work at low vacuum then switch to MAP up higher? I was under the impression MS had that ability...

[3d914]

Jim,
I did one with a Web73 cam - though it's not as extreme as yours. Here's a link to my Megasquirt data - midway down first page.

Keep at it. You won't be disappointed.

[cgnj]

I was running a web 86B cam in a 2ltr engine. What I found was MAF works best
using MAP the vacumn signature was not stable enought. I try TPS, this was unstable
also. I try MAF+TPS next this was better but not good enought for me. I then change
to MAF the engine ran great, smooth idle and pull like a dream through the entire
RPM range. Try it I'm sure you will like it better. Just my $.02

Now it's question time.
What MAF did you use?
Did you switch to mod the plenum or relocate or use non standand aircleaner?
Pics would help.
I found this link on the a bmw forum. He went from itb's to MAF on a 2.2 motor. I really didn't study his cam, but I believe it has a duration of 304 degrees. I think that a MAF implementation of MS is the answer and will allow the use of non FI cams.

Link here bmw 2.2 with MAF

Problem is getting maf tables/curves. I am making a trip to Junkyard Barbie linkywith my dial caliper and MAF pn list. I'm going to pull Bosch MAFs from this techsheet Bosch hfm2 MAF and a maf from a mustang. the mustang MAF has a table that I was able to locate. Mustang MAF Table

That's my story and I'm sticking to it.

Carlos

[rwilner]

Have you guys tried to run in tps only? Mps only?

When the car bucks, is it under load or not?

My approach would be to try to narrow down the problem. Set the ms to tps only. Still bucking? Set it to mps only. Still bucking? If yes to one but not the other, issue is probably the sensor or wiring.

Is the bucking only under load? That could be a fuel issue, possibly related to your afr/ve tables. Have you tried running auto tune in closed loop within tunerstudio? That worked awesome for me. If youre going to run closed loop on afrs, try to verify your afr sniffer's readings against a known good instrument Like you'd do on a dyno-- mark must have one or have access to one.

I'm sure mark has done this, but make sure to post questions with msq files and catalogs on the microsquirt forums. The turnaround time there isn't super fast but the company owner (grippo) will help you troubleshoot.

Don't give up. You will get there!!!

[ericoneal]

If it helps at all, here is my msq file. The previous owner installed the Megasquirt system, I'm still learning it, but my car runs great. Its a 73 2.0.

[Mike Bellis]

A Ford Mustang MAF is the easiest to configure on MS. They are cheap too. Just requires a few components and some solder on the board. The only other (less effective) way to do it is with Alpha N. No MAP sensor at all. The only other thing to try is manifolding all the intake runners to a single vacuum source, like Conedodger's setup.

[904svo]

I was running a web 86B cam in a 2ltr engine. What I found was MAF works best
using MAP the vacumn signature was not stable enought. I try TPS, this was unstable
also. I try MAF+TPS next this was better but not good enought for me. I then change
to MAF the engine ran great, smooth idle and pull like a dream through the entire
RPM range. Try it I'm sure you will like it better. Just my $.02

Now it's question time.
What MAF did you use?
Did you switch to mod the plenum or relocate or use non standand aircleaner?
Pics would help.
I found this link on the a bmw forum. He went from itb's to MAF on a 2.2 motor. I really didn't study his cam, but I believe it has a duration of 304 degrees. I think that a MAF implementation of MS is the answer and will allow the use of non FI cams.

Link here bmw 2.2 with MAF

Problem is getting maf tables/curves. I am making a trip to Junkyard Barbie linkywith my dial caliper and MAF pn list. I'm going to pull Bosch MAFs from this techsheet Bosch hfm2 MAF and a maf from a mustang. the mustang MAF has a table that I was able to locate. Mustang MAF Table

That's my story and I'm sticking to it.

Carlos

I used a Ford MAF sensor which was mounted in a universal holder. The only problem
was the ID of the universal holder was larger than the throttle body. This was reduce to match it. I then use the voltage output of the MAF to set my tables.

[McMark]

I tried MAP only. I tried TPS only. I tried blended. I tried adding a reduced orifice to the MAP hose. I tried increasing the MAP sensor lag/smoothing. I tried more fuel. I tried less fuel. I tried more timing. I tried less timing. I looked at datalogs to see if it was a noise issue in the wiring.

Nothing made it go away.

I did some research last night and I will be working on an optional MAF solution for my kits, but I'll be finding a MAF that it sized more appropriately and go through the process of mapping my setup on a flow bench.

[ConeDodger]

A Ford Mustang MAF is the easiest to configure on MS. They are cheap too. Just requires a few components and some solder on the board. The only other (less effective) way to do it is with Alpha N. No MAP sensor at all. The only other thing to try is manifolding all the intake runners to a single vacuum source, like Conedodger's setup.

For the general benefit of everyone interested in this thread. McMark doesn't need it. He set it up!

[904svo]

I tried MAP only. I tried TPS only. I tried blended. I tried adding a reduced orifice to the MAP hose. I tried increasing the MAP sensor lag/smoothing. I tried more fuel. I tried less fuel. I tried more timing. I tried less timing. I looked at datalogs to see if it was a noise issue in the wiring.

Nothing made it go away.

I did some research last night and I will be working on an optional MAF solution for my kits, but I'll be finding a MAF that it sized more appropriately and go through the process of mapping my setup on a flow bench.

Mark do what I did hook up the MAF to a spare channel and plot the curve and compare it too the MAP and TPS and see how smother MAF is while under load.

[McMark]

I believe you regarding the improvement of using a MAF sensor. I'll definitely be working on it (been reading for about 3 hours now). I have some ideas that I like and I think it will solve Jim's issue.

This is all sort-of a next phase on my fuel injection setup. The original design was simply a MicroSquirt setup that could be bolted on and looked as original as possible. The COP ignition was a deviation from that, and now the MAF setup is going even further. My crazy brain makes me need to balance the new technologies with still looking somewhat original. This would be easy with a PVC elbow and a K&N filter. But I can't do that. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/wacko.gif)

Plus balancing this R&D with actually making money to pay rent.... (IMG:style_emoticons/default/dry.gif)

[JimN73]

Thanks to everyone who has volunteered info. I'm sure that Mark will find a solution and I have the test vehicle.

[charliew]

My experience is only with my sons sti suby. You might look at a bosch based 2.0 liter maf and see if the id is closer to the t4. You can get aftermarket maf housings to custom build air intake stuff for imports. Also we once turned his maf around backwards and it wouldn't idle for anything. We got it turned around by putting the housing in the silicon hoses backward after putting the motor back in and making a new cold air intake. Maybe a vw maf sensor.

[DNHunt]

I don't know if it is available with Microsquirt but, I'm using ITB mode with MS3, When I switched from MAP only it really cleaned things up. It's really a blended MAP/Throttle position mode that is tunable in 1 table. Apart from that suggestion, I'd look for an input from a sensor that is causing enrichment. I've had TPS triggering acceleration enrichment, coolant sensor tripping warmup enrichment and MAT sensor causing leaning out. My experience is it"s usually something simple that I miss.

Good Luck

Dave

[McMark]

Tried TPS only and tried blended with varying amounts of blend.

Looking at the logs, AccelEnrich is only where it should be and warmup is 100% for the whole log. So unless there is some back-door effect that doesn't show up in the log. IAT only varies 2° over the whole log.