Battled with a Boxter last night Options

[Randal]

How many guys are putting in IMSA spec, RS, RSR spec engines in their sixes?

Hi Charles!

Come out to a GGR AutoX (how about tomorrow morning?) and you'll see lots of them.

What did you think of Rich Walton's spec racer at the JW open house? The best autox racing I think I ever seen was Bill Pickering going back to back against Rich Walton at the Marina. Pretty serious.

Actually it's a pretty competitive crowd out here, but that being said, 914’s still hold their own.

Although it will be a lot more fun when we have a few of Jake’s motors running around.

[Root_Werks]

Jake, duuuuuude you get defensive when it comes to T4 engines. Chill man. Let people rant what they want. I haven't been on this list even 6 months, but can say I have never heard anyone speak anything but + praise about what you build. Maybe you don't need the buisiness, but don't screw yourself out of customers man. Keep an open mind and stay positive about people opinions when it comes to car/engine combos.

Example:

We have two 914's, mine is a 914-6 (cause I like a 6) and my wifes is a 914-4 because she thinks the 6 is too much of a beast. I don't rebuild engines, but want more power out of her 914 and she doesn't. Just leave it alone she says. So I sent the motor off to you, keep it FI and have you build me a nice 2270 or whatever. "See honey, stock." But when I drive it, I can unleash the power! "Golly sweethart, your old engine must have been sicker than we though!"

Now, me, I would think of what an ass you have been to guys who like 914-6 like me and give my business to someone who appreciates 914's in general, 4', 6's, 8's or whatever.

It's just advise man, you don't have to listen to it. Just I don't ever tell my customers thier cars, excuse me, thier engines suck. It only pisses them off which makes them a customer who will not come back. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/beerchug.gif)

[nine14cats]

I'd love to see one of Jake's engine's out here on the west coast. Randal, you've got get one! (IMG:style_emoticons/default/laugh.gif) And thanks for the compliment on my duel with Rich. That day was so much fun!

I'm serious when I say I'd love to see a Raby pumped motor around here. I believe for auto-x one of his engines in a set up car would kick serious butt. Put that power in Andrew Blyholder's or Steve Nieslony's car and us sixers would have a tough time catching them, especially how both of their cars have been made to be so light.

On 3 mile race track however, my pumped 2.7 race motor would always beat a 4 cylinder. And there are some serious 4 guys running in the GGR Time Trial series. That's why someone should step up and get a Raby motor and race me. It should be interesting. My new 3.6 motor goes to Rich Walton at JWE to be dyno'd next week. We're matching the ratios in the gear box to the power curve.

Randal????? (IMG:style_emoticons/default/laugh.gif)

God...I can't wait until the new car is done... (IMG:style_emoticons/default/biggrin.gif)

Bill P.

[Jake Raby]

There are plenty of my engines on the west coast. Most of them are there but they don't belong to members of the boards so you don't hear much about them here..


I don't get defensive, I get down right mad and thats only because most TIV comparos were done with other people's engines and not mine.... All 4 cylinders are NOT created equal! Its all in the combo!

[Aaron Cox]

a couple of my AX runs were faster than the 2 914//6's there. the boxter was 2 seconds ahead of me <_<

[Mueller]

is it me or did Chris say "If I had a 3.2/6, I would have...."

from that, I must say that is what he wants, it wasn't until Bob decided to kiss Jakes ass did this get into a 4 or 6 debate (IMG:style_emoticons/default/wacko.gif)

[bob91403]

No ass kissing involved. Facts are facts. Everyone here is familiar with the 914Lite, before it was parted out. He showed us all how a well built four could out do a boxster for HP/lb. The fact is that I happen to respect Jake, and his work. Nothing more. I just happen to think he's more dedicated to improving the performance of the Type IV than the rest of the people out there building them. I'm sure you'd take your's to MotorMeister. I'll have Jake do mine. Your choice, your opinion. I'm entitled to mine, your entitled to yours. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/finger.gif)

[1973914]

There is a reason you dont see competition cars running 4 cylinders outside of the stock classes...reliability/hp COMBINATION. Lets take HSR for example. NO 4 cylinder cars are competitive in that class. Why? The reason is simple. If you are gonna spend 10-20k on a motor, you want to get the most life out of it you can. I have watched several big fours (including my pro build and one of Raby's creations) develop big holes in the case during track days. Every single DE 914 here on our coast that I have seen that has any speed and runs every day is a 6. Us fools that have hopped up a four and taken it to the track and tried to spend under 10 grand on engine builds to do it have been burned. Jake how about building me one for cost and proving me wrong (IMG:style_emoticons/default/cool.gif)

All that said - Boxsters are great modern versions of our cars general configuration, with all the comforts modern typical consumers expect. A nice lightened simple version would be pretty cool for us performance junkies!

[bob91403]

(IMG:style_emoticons/default/agree.gif) If they did a boxster S correct for the track, it would be real cool. Too bad they don't. I doubt it could be done right, unless Porsche did it. Too bad, they don't. I've only seen 911s on the televised GT circuit. I saw several 914s kick ass on the 911s at the L.A. street race, no boxsters anywhere. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/headbang.gif)

[1973914]

There are a couple people out there tracking boxsters, but they really are not designed for it. You cant strip it the bones and rebuild with other porsche (911) parts to make it go really fast like you can with our cars!!! (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smilie_pokal.gif)

[Jake Raby]

See, I NEVER start this on these forums, I get dragged into it..

Anyway, Have any of those "Ventilated Type IVcases" that you have seen explode had my name on them???

Not all 4s are created equal. Many are built by some 911 wrench that doesn't understand the inner workings of this engine and how to unlok its power, just like I don't know those things about a six, or a V8.

I have had ONE engine in recent history die at a DE event in a 914, and it was due to a bad JE piston that ripped the wrist pin boss completely out and destroyed everything else. Since you saw that one engine fail 1973914 why don't you share the owners name with me and we'll see if they jive...

Kevin and I will be proving the TIV next year in E production, so I don't need to give anything away at cost to prove something..

Maybe if I wasn't 8 months backlogged with engines to build I'd need the extra press- but not right now.

At the last DE I went to I saw 3 911 engines lay down as well and one with a Carrillo rod out the top for the third time in less than 2 years....

All engines explode and break, none are immune to it!

The Type IV engine got most of its highest achievments in desert racing- 1,000 miles through the Baja is not a small feat. These engines can be made to live, and doing so will get ALOT cheaper and easier come 2005!!!!!!! Got something up my sleeve!

[1973914]

Marsden was the name of the guy whose motor i watched blow- and a J&E piston ripping off the rod was exactly what happened to my engine as well. Did you get any restitution from J&E?

My engine builder races a type IV in PCA club racing and supports everything from himself to brand new GT3 RS's in competition, I had every confidence in his ability to build a motor. I did not mean to come across so strong, I am just pissed off at type IV "performance" motors in general, and hate being on the side of the track while everyone else with a 6 in it passes me by.... <_<

[bob91403]

Sorry if i dragged you in to this Jake. The guy said he needed a 3.2 six to beat out a boxster. We all know that's not true. HP/lb is what's needed. My point was that you don't need a six to get there. It's been done before I ever heard of Jake(914Lite). I only mentioned you because I know you do a TypeIV right. If I knew of someone who does it better, I'd have put his name up. Anybody here got a problem with that? (IMG:style_emoticons/default/pissoff.gif)

[Series9]

Jake, I was reading your posts very respectfully until this time. You need to settle down.

The guys are right. You presented a pretty slanted list of -6 engine outputs. I can tell you that my 3.6 (993 Euro) makes 300hp and I can also tell you that if you ever get a TIV engine to make that kind of hp, it won't be for more than a couple of minutes.

You're doing cool things with an old technology. In the end it will always be a pushrod engine. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/bootyshake.gif)

[Jake Raby]

Well, don't be mad at me, let me help you instead!

Yes, TG Marsden is the guys name and that happened a few months back. Since I have repaired the engine, got him another 20HP and its ready to be reinstalled.

I found the issue with the JE piston. Those pistons were generic JEs bought at European Motorworks and did not have reinforced pin bosses, nor did they have lighter pins. I have used dozens of sets but never had another fail. I had one set inmy 2316 and it revved crisply to 8,300 RPM all the time... That engine had a 1,000 F/PS faster piston speed and it still never happened!

I stopped using those JEs back in 2002 and since have designed our own pistons for JE to make and they feature better forgings, better -lighter pins and double snap rings. This was an isolated incident for both of us I'm sure and 'll bet your pistons have a "97M" forging number inside their crowns.

The part that failed on your engine was an aftermarket part, not a VW part. It was not the Type IV engines fault that someone ordered a generic part(even I did it but never knew it).......It was a part failure, and that also happens in Formula 1 and NASCAR with engines that cost 100 times more than a simple old 4 cylinder.

The same thing happens to 911 engines with JE pistons in some instances.


BTW, 914RS not all Type IVs have to have pushrods....

I could be like everyone else and go to some other kind of engine to make my power thats easier and doesn't involve squabbling all the time. The easy way out isn't for me and at the end of the day it feels good to know that I did more with less.

[bob91403]

911s have pushrods too. Accelerator and parking brake. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/laugh.gif)

[mike_the_man]

I don't like to see people fighting over engines. I'd love to have a 6 or a Raby 4. IMHO, they're both very cool engines.

Where's Meredith with some dog pictures to calm everybody down?

[1973914]

I will check them for sure this weekend. Not sure you mean by saying that it was not a VW part that you use VW parts only in your engines? Not getting your point...

In the meantime, my builder has no culpability becuase i purchased the J&E's myself.... So out 6k with a $20k roller. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/mad.gif)

[d914]

Back on the orginal topic.......there is a ruff boxer here in Atlanta that could be fast as sh#T if it had another driver. 300+ hp special suspension and lots of tire. I have followed and passed it but have seen what it could do on a straightaway,,,,,,very quick.

[bob91403]

Makes a good dragster. Teener beats it on the rest of the course. Hmm (IMG:style_emoticons/default/idea.gif) What percentage of most tracks is straight? Anybody know? (IMG:style_emoticons/default/confused24.gif)