Bolt up 160 amp Alternator Kit, "Plug and Play" Options

[pnewman]

I didn't see the installed alternator when I first read the thread. Looks good down there.

Another question: Can the OEM style alternators be rebuilt to provide 100~125 amps? (for those of us that don't plan to run high wattage audio amplifiers).

(IMG:style_emoticons/default/agree.gif)
I'd offer a kit both ways, many here won't install a high power stereo so 105amp would be plenty.

I will see how much of a savings it would be to just leave the 105 amp alternator alone and not do the 160 amp upgrade to it.
I will also look into a middle ground amperage upgrade too.
I will post what I learn when I acquire some good information.

Interesting stuff.

[Bob L.]

I like the idea of more power(juice), but what will it cost horsepower wise?
How much more HP will it take to turn a bigger Alt?

I have a dream of an electric A/C pump powered by a bigger alternator. I fear that an alternator big enough to handle it would cost as much more HP as the A/C pump by itself.

Anyone here know about that?

(IMG:style_emoticons/default/popcorn[1].gif)

[pnewman]

I like the idea of more power(juice), but what will it cost horsepower wise?
How much more HP will it take to turn a bigger Alt?

I have a dream of an electric A/C pump powered by a bigger alternator. I fear that an alternator big enough to handle it would cost as much more HP as the A/C pump by itself.

Anyone here know about that?

(IMG:style_emoticons/default/popcorn[1].gif)

I thought about the Hp cost as well as the time and money.
I guess that you don't get something for nothing. So I guess that it would have to put more of a load on the engine.

At the same time that I did this I also swapped out my muffler to a cherry bomb from a turbo. The Cherry bomb set up definately has less restriction than the Turbo. I then put the car back on the road and didn't notice a difference in performance. I loaded the car down with accessories at idle and she didn't seem to notice. Correction: The car did notice. I have never heard or felt this car start or idle better before. I am guessing that I had a little bit weaker spark before as compared to now. I thought that it ran fine before but compared to now my perspective has changed.

I guess one would have to dyno a car with the oem 55 amp alt and then the upgraded alt to get an objective comparison.

I have never heard of an electrically driven A/C on such a small car before. I guess that it must have been accomplished before. I would like to see what would become of your AC project. Please start a project thread if you go ahead with it. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)

[euro911]

If you do, do it, I'd be interested in a lower-wattage kit ...

The drag coefficient of an alternator will vary with the amount of 'juice' you pull from the electrical system.

As for powering an electric AC compressor, you lose efficiency with each conversion you go through. The current draw from a compressor will also cause more drag on the alternator.

[pnewman]

If you do, do it, I'd be interested in a lower-wattage kit ...

I should be able to start putting some numbers together in a week or so.

I will have to find a new machine shop to out source the mounting mods. This may take a while. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/unsure.gif) The machining was the pain in the ass.

The shop that I had do the prototype said that they under bid the job and not to bring in another one. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/lol-2.gif) If that tells you what a pain it is. Perhaps welding Al / zinc pot metal just sucks. ? Oh well... chip chip.

[euro911]

(IMG:style_emoticons/default/agree.gif) Prototyping has a learning curve. Once the tooling/fixtures are set up, the production cost per 'widget' comes down. However, limited runs jack the costs back up (IMG:style_emoticons/default/dry.gif)

[Zimms]

Pete,

I am interested.

Mark

[timothy_nd28]

Pete, you had me at "so"! I'm in
Does this kit include a rubber plug, to cap off the rubber boot? Maybe you can talk with Mikey914 to source said plug.
I wonder with the extra airflow under the tin, will it cool better? (IMG:style_emoticons/default/idea.gif)

[pnewman]

(IMG:style_emoticons/default/agree.gif) Prototyping has a learning curve. Once the tooling/fixtures are set up, the production cost per 'widget' comes down. However, limited runs jack the costs back up (IMG:style_emoticons/default/dry.gif)

I couldn't agree more.

I am not ready to buy a dozen of these set ups only to find out that I am stuck with them.

I guess it is a happy medium between doing ones and two's and doing a gross.

If I go for a dozen or more I might invest in a Tig. Ouch!

[pnewman]

Pete, you had me at "so"! I'm in
Does this kit include a rubber plug, to cap off the rubber boot? Maybe you can talk with Mikey914 to source said plug.
I wonder with the extra airflow under the tin, will it cool better? (IMG:style_emoticons/default/idea.gif)

I have sourced a NEW rubber grommet for the engine tin.

I am having a hard time finding the 3 pin female electrical plug for the engine electrical board to provide a lead for the voltage idiot light.



Chip chip.

[pnewman]

914s are always begging to be upgraded for those that want to do it, but please confirm that the wiring in the photo is just a test mule prototype and not what you hope to provide?

That wiring could be improved with: no exposed wires (continuous heat shrink), no zip ties, and no crimp splices.

Do you have better photos of the harness?

Yep. Prototype.
Yes: continous heat shrink is in its' future.

(IMG:style_emoticons/default/stirthepot.gif) This is the prototype. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/welder.gif)

I hate making beutiful products only to tear into them after a few test runs. Kind of like an engine stand phylosophy etc.

All heat shrink, no zip ties, no spade connectors... will be with next generation... ...if there is one. Although I will redo mine regardless of where this goes.
One of my concerns is that people won't want to spend the money on on wiring and just want the alternator.

It would be an unfortunate occurence if I were to develop a Bad rep..... Pete's alternators are setting fires to our 914's .... (IMG:style_emoticons/default/headbang.gif)

...because people didn't upgrade the wiring at the same time.
Thus the "kit / package."

So what's the soonest we might see such a kit available???

I have but a few hurdles to overcome.
..a not so minor one is the machine work on the slide ear for the mount. The prototype machinist said no more!
..I need to find a source for the 3 pin connector that goes into the electrical board in the engine compartment.
I think that I have the rest figured out. Just need to crunch numbers after those issues and then see if people want to spend the money and then I will do a run.

If we are a go.
I will do two sets and take pics of the complete kit and see what you all think.

The responses should be interesting.

[timothy_nd28]

Instead of trying to locate that 3 pin connector that plugs on the relay board, why not include in your kit a pin extraction tool. Just include a set of instructions on how to use the tool, so that you can re-use that 3 pin plug.

[pnewman]

Pete, you had me at "so"! I'm in
Does this kit include a rubber plug, to cap off the rubber boot? Maybe you can talk with Mikey914 to source said plug.
I wonder with the extra airflow under the tin, will it cool better? (IMG:style_emoticons/default/idea.gif)

Cooling: Their are different fans that I have played with on this alternator.

Issue one was to keep the alternator cool.
Issue two was to not grind tin in the process.
Issue three was to be able to adjust the belt tension whilst still accomplishing the above.


I think that this will indeed cool the engine a little bit better. How much at this time is uncertain. Every bit helps.
Perhaps the added cooling might help offset the 1.001hp loss by the up'd amperage (IMG:style_emoticons/default/biggrin.gif)

[pnewman]

Instead of trying to locate that 3 pin connector that plugs on the relay board, why not include in your kit a pin extraction tool. Just include a set of instructions on how to use the tool, so that you can re-use that 3 pin plug.

I like your thinking.

I was actually thinking of having people send me their harness's as cores or something but I am trying to make this a true plug and play kit (or as close to it as I know how.) I think the "core" business is a pure headache and am trying to avoid it.

I am also trying to make this an "all NEW parts" kit or as much as possible.

I am trying to make something that people receive and bolt on. Call a fellow teener enthusiast over for a cold beverage and 3 hours later (if their bolts aren't too rusted solid that is) then crack a cold one and take her for a test drive. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/beerchug.gif)

The parts are out their.
People are just keeping their sources a secret... naughty naughty.

Thanks, (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smoke.gif)

Pete

[timothy_nd28]

I have spent many many days doing research trying to source new connector sockets for the silly dual relay, and came up short. I just feel that you may come to the same heart sinking conclusion as I did.

Towards that 3 pin connector on the OEM wiring harness, the pins have spring clips, and can be removed, given you have the correct tool. I'm with you on the plug and play idea, and you can set it up to be 98% that way. Build the new wire harness, attach the new pins to the harness, then in the instructions with your kit, explain how to remove the 3 pins, and insert the new harness pins in the corresponding locations. Pictures would be a great help in your instruction booklet. Everything else will be plug and play except that connector, which the end user can do himself given the tool and instructions and 10 minutes worth of labor. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/beerchug.gif)

[FourBlades]

I am in for 1 kit with the 105 amp option.

Nice work on developing this.

John

[Nürburg Nomad]

Have you addressed how you might sell kits for 914s that have already been changed? Mine has a 1200cca Optima Red Top battery up front with 2 gauge wire running back to the engine, so my parts needs will differ from that of a factory stock teener...

[pnewman]

I have spent many many days doing research trying to source new connector sockets for the silly dual relay, and came up short. I just feel that you may come to the same heart sinking conclusion as I did.

Towards that 3 pin connector on the OEM wiring harness, the pins have spring clips, and can be removed, given you have the correct tool. I'm with you on the plug and play idea, and you can set it up to be 98% that way. Build the new wire harness, attach the new pins to the harness, then in the instructions with your kit, explain how to remove the 3 pins, and insert the new harness pins in the corresponding locations. Pictures would be a great help in your instruction booklet. Everything else will be plug and play except that connector, which the end user can do himself given the tool and instructions and 10 minutes worth of labor. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/beerchug.gif)

You are right on the 3 pin connector.
I have about 3 used ones in stock now. I might just clean those up for the first round. Then see by that time where this goes.

FYI: I was going to order a pack of the female spade spring clips. I have seen them advetised as "with Tab" also.

Dual Relay.
I have only been able to get old / used dual relays to work on my car. The new ones that are plastic and have to be shaved down to fit don't function for me.
I didn't spend any time further on the issue as I am running perrrrrfect now.
Any of you L-Jet 1.8 liter guys have any ideas? (IMG:style_emoticons/default/idea.gif)

...not to highjack my own thread (IMG:style_emoticons/default/biggrin.gif)

[pnewman]

Have you addressed how you might sell kits for 914s that have already been changed? Mine has a 1200cca Optima Red Top battery up front with 2 gauge wire running back to the engine, so my parts needs will differ from that of a factory stock teener...

I don't see why I would down grade from your #2 wires as I plan on using #4 gauge.
I do have some information that might be of interest to you:
You might want to utilize a lead from this Alternator pigtail that isn't needed for the stock battery location.
When their is a very long run (such as yours) builders sometimes run a dedicated lead from the pigtail to the battery. The idea is that this direct routing to this pigtail lead better accomodates the internal voltage regulator monitoring of the true battery condition and thus adjusts for said demands more accurately. This is the theory.

For your situation I could put a (ridiculiously) long lead off of this pigtail to accomodate you. Something like this can be accomomplished easly if informed early in the process. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/beerchug.gif)


But honestly; at this point I am trying to get past oem fitment.
If the kit is well received I will then go from there.


Thanks,
Pete

[pnewman]

(IMG:style_emoticons/default/piratenanner.gif) I picked up a core engine from one of our members tonight. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/piratenanner.gif)

I plan on using it as a fitment check for all parts prior to shipping anything.

Kind of a quality control device.


I don't plan on tearing my car apart with every kit check then putting Humpty Dumpty back together again.

I think that for the time being I will be using cleaned up but yes used (but in good condition) 3 pin connectors. I have enough to send out and see how this works out and is received.