Home  |  Forums  |  914 Info  |  Blogs
 
914World.com - The fastest growing online 914 community!
 
Porsche, and the Porsche crest are registered trademarks of Dr. Ing. h.c. F. Porsche AG. This site is not affiliated with Porsche in any way.
Its only purpose is to provide an online forum for car enthusiasts. All other trademarks are property of their respective owners.
 

Welcome Guest ( Log In | Register )

> Improving 2.0 /4 stock cooling system
Mueller
post May 14 2003, 08:20 AM
Post #1


914 Freak!
***************

Group: Members
Posts: 17,146
Joined: 4-January 03
From: Antioch, CA
Member No.: 87
Region Association: None
Since my /4 will be under the influence of positive manifold pressure, i think keeping the motor cool will be a major concern.

Since I am on a tight budget (who is not these days) I cannot go to extremes with products like the 911 fan conversion or the dual electric fan setup. My dream setup is a horizontal fan, but for now I need to keep the stock 2.0 FI plenum and manifolds, besides, the bevel gears are loud and rob horsepower and the oil fill housing is in the way for a clean setup.


Has anyone changed the fan? or modified the stock fan for better flow? i know that some have removed a few fins but I thought that was not good for a motor that might have to idle for long periods of time like in traffic.

Can anything be done to the fan housing assembly to improve the airflow?
(baffles, diffusers, vortex generators???)

I know it would only cool the back of the motor, but I had thought about machining the back of the flywheel to create "fins" that could assist in suppling air to the motor...crazy? yea (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)
User is offlineProfile CardPM
Go to the top of the page
+Quote Post
2 Pages V  1 2 >  
 Reply to this topicStart new topic
Replies(1 - 19)
fuch toy
post May 14 2003, 08:26 AM
Post #2


Unregistered
It wasn't REAL expensive, but I really had no choice.

My dual electric fan set up.......
$175 for the cowls, alternator stand and bottom pulley versus $350 new...thanks to Tim Hannum
$99 for the alternator...90 amp....woo hoo...(Summint Racing)
$235 for the dual fans and the thermostat (Racer's Supply)

less $150 I got for the 2.0 tin and 914 alternator....

$359.....plus 5 bucks for the rattle can to paint the shrouds..... 1200 cfm fan cooling versus the stock....
Go to the top of the page
+Quote Post
Bleyseng
post May 14 2003, 08:26 AM
Post #3


Aircooled Baby!
**********

Group: Members
Posts: 13,034
Joined: 27-December 02
From: Seattle, Washington (for now)
Member No.: 24
Region Association: Pacific Northwest
Mike, install a front oil cooler. The fan set up is pretty well thought out with lots of CFM of airflow. It poops out after 5000 rpms so if you are going to a turbo an oil cooler for those hot summer days is the ticket.
Geoff
User is offlineProfile CardPM
Go to the top of the page
+Quote Post
fuch toy
post May 14 2003, 08:36 AM
Post #4


Unregistered
Just an addition....when I added the exta oil cooler up front to the 911/3.6....it does not have a cooler in the the motor like TypeIVs and earlier sixes.....the cooler, adapters and lines cost me over $500 bucks.....plus the air dam....
Go to the top of the page
+Quote Post
Mueller
post May 14 2003, 08:45 AM
Post #5


914 Freak!
***************

Group: Members
Posts: 17,146
Joined: 4-January 03
From: Antioch, CA
Member No.: 87
Region Association: None
I'd like to have piston squirters, but I'd have to split the case and send it off for that modification. I have an oil cooler already, just not installed yet (have to decide where to put it and if I will be running a water-to-air intercooler)

Back the fan:
Do both sides get equal flow? I know the right side has to deal with the oil cooler so some flow or pressure might get reduced due to that.


Even with modern electric fans being able to run for thousands of hours non-stop, I'd still like a mechanical solution for cooling, besides with my fuel injection and ignition, I'll have enough electrical gremlins to worry about...
User is offlineProfile CardPM
Go to the top of the page
+Quote Post
fuch toy
post May 14 2003, 08:51 AM
Post #6


Unregistered
The connect is pretty idjut proof....thermostat hooked into the positive lead, when temp is achieved, the circuit closes and actuates the permanently grounded fan(s). With the 90 amp Delco alt, you got gobs of juice compared to the 55amp stock unit. The temp sender mounts over the #3 cylinder head....

Temps are gonna be watched closely with the forced induction, so any increases would be shut down time anyways.....
Go to the top of the page
+Quote Post
GWN7
post May 14 2003, 09:06 AM
Post #7


King of Road Trips
*****

Group: Members
Posts: 6,280
Joined: 31-December 02
From: Winnipeg, MB, Canada
Member No.: 56
Region Association: Northstar Region
Wouldn't the addition of electric fans mounted under the engine hood/grill pushing air out from the engine compartment increase the air flow enough to keep the motor cool enough?
User is offlineProfile CardPM
Go to the top of the page
+Quote Post
Mark Henry
post May 14 2003, 09:34 AM
Post #8


that's what I do!
***************

Group: Members
Posts: 20,065
Joined: 27-December 02
From: Port Hope, Ontario
Member No.: 26
Region Association: Canada
I doubt if you can do much to the fan.

Use a cooler for sure.

The single biggest improvments are going to come from getting more cool air into the engine bay.
Use a GT deck lid. If the turbo is going into the bay try to isollate it from the cooling air. If you like to cut and hack maybe some NACA ducts in the rockers (a'la chuckster, I think) and duct them into the engine bay.
Hey you have the rice wheels how about a big f'in hood scoop! (IMG:style_emoticons/default/wink.gif)

Has anyone tried a GT lid with two rain trays? would this help/work?
Maybe I should start a new thread for this question.
(IMG:style_emoticons/default/MDB2.gif)
User is offlineProfile CardPM
Go to the top of the page
+Quote Post
cha914
post May 14 2003, 09:39 AM
Post #9


MUSR 8 - 5lug conversion done wed - drive 500miles thrus
***

Group: Members
Posts: 739
Joined: 31-December 02
From: Austin, TX
Member No.: 63
Mueller,

What about water injection? Keep that charge nice and cool...

Also, be sure to block off the ducts that come out of the fan shroud. That will boost the air flow to the heads some, and I am sure you are ceramic coating the header to help with the heat and give a good charge to the turbo.

Good luck,

Tony
User is offlineProfile CardPM
Go to the top of the page
+Quote Post
fuch toy
post May 14 2003, 09:42 AM
Post #10


Unregistered
Double rain trays? Don't you mean double grills?

I think it was John Rogers that uses a lip spolier on the targa bar....it vents more air from the top of the car, down to the grill(s).....he posts here and should have a pic.
Go to the top of the page
+Quote Post
Mark Henry
post May 14 2003, 09:56 AM
Post #11


that's what I do!
***************

Group: Members
Posts: 20,065
Joined: 27-December 02
From: Port Hope, Ontario
Member No.: 26
Region Association: Canada
QUOTE(Zois @ May 14 2003, 07:42 AM)
Double rain trays? Don't you mean double grills?

I think it was John Rogers that uses a lip spolier on the targa bar....it vents more air from the top of the car, down to the grill(s).....he posts here and should have a pic.

No, rain trays. I know what a GT lid is.

I want more cooling air, but I want to keep the rain tray function. Has anyone tried it and is it worth it?

I don't know if a scoop like that really works, a lot of air spins around there already. That's why they put those pop-up rear wind screens on Merc's. Ever notice how people's hair blows in a convertable? That's how a 914 can get away with the air intake where it is.
(IMG:style_emoticons/default/driving.gif)
User is offlineProfile CardPM
Go to the top of the page
+Quote Post
john rogers
post May 14 2003, 10:05 AM
Post #12


Senior Member
***

Group: Members
Posts: 1,525
Joined: 4-March 03
From: Chula Vista CA
Member No.: 391
Hey Mike, thanks for remembering me. I have a deflector over the rear of the targa top, about 18 inches wide or so and it gets lots of air into the engine grill. It was thought of by Charlie Wallace in san Diego to cool a 914 with an RSR motor that ran a little hot. It sticks up about 1.5 inches which gives plenty of air since it breaks the vacuum behind the rear window. The other alternative would be to take out the rear window so the air coming in the sides goes straight out the back. Most vintage organizations will not allow this as they say rear window required. There are a couple of pictures on the Pelican site in my race car article. Good luck
User is offlineProfile CardPM
Go to the top of the page
+Quote Post
JmuRiz
post May 14 2003, 10:09 AM
Post #13


914 Guru
*****

Group: Members
Posts: 5,427
Joined: 30-December 02
From: NoVA
Member No.: 50
Region Association: MidAtlantic Region
Mike Z: Do you have any pics of that dual fan setup, and is it worth it in your oppinion? Because it seems like a cool idea (no pun intended)
User is offlineProfile CardPM
Go to the top of the page
+Quote Post
fuch toy
post May 14 2003, 10:16 AM
Post #14


Unregistered
http://www.914world.com/bbs2/index.php?act...t=ST&f=2&t=1455

Buried on page 14.....
Go to the top of the page
+Quote Post
fuch toy
post May 14 2003, 10:21 AM
Post #15


Unregistered
One


Attached File(s)
Attached File  red1 ( 62.22k ) Number of downloads: 0
Go to the top of the page
+Quote Post
fuch toy
post May 14 2003, 10:21 AM
Post #16


Unregistered
two


Attached File(s)
Attached File  red2 ( 79.83k ) Number of downloads: 0
Go to the top of the page
+Quote Post
Demick
post May 14 2003, 10:23 AM
Post #17


Ernie made me do it!
****

Group: Benefactors
Posts: 2,312
Joined: 6-February 03
From: Pleasanton, CA
Member No.: 257
QUOTE(Zois @ May 14 2003, 06:26 AM)

$359.....plus 5 bucks for the rattle can to paint the shrouds..... 1200 cfm fan cooling versus the stock....

Stock cooling fan is rated at 1680 cfm @ 4600 rpm.
User is offlineProfile CardPM
Go to the top of the page
+Quote Post
fuch toy
post May 14 2003, 10:30 AM
Post #18


Unregistered
Times 2.....2400 cfm, continuous not contingent on engine speed........
Go to the top of the page
+Quote Post
airsix
post May 14 2003, 11:06 AM
Post #19


I have bees in my epiglotis
****

Group: Members
Posts: 2,196
Joined: 7-February 03
From: Kennewick Man (E. WA State)
Member No.: 266
Mike,
I was talking to an engineer about this just this past weekend. He said that this type of fan and ducting design is about 90% efficient. Other than plugging leaks, there's no practical way to improve on that short of a bigger fan.

Things you can do:
1) get cooler air to the fan
2) fresh-air intake
3) cool the compressed charge (intercooling)
4) increased oil cooling
5) keep turbo heat out of engine bay

I'm taking my fresh-air intake from the right wheel well. I moved my battery to the front trunk to give me room in this area for the plumbing and airbox. I am mounting my turbo next to the bellhousing on the right side, just behind the upright cooling tin to keep it out of the engine bay. I'll post pictures in a week or two.

-Ben M.
User is offlineProfile CardPM
Go to the top of the page
+Quote Post
Scott S
post May 14 2003, 11:55 AM
Post #20


Small Member
***

Group: Members
Posts: 1,697
Joined: 30-April 03
From: Colorado
Member No.: 633
Mr Z -
do you have to pull the motor for this install? Does that price include the alternator bracketry?
-Scott S
User is offlineProfile CardPM
Go to the top of the page
+Quote Post
« Next Oldest · 914World Garage · Next Newest »
 

2 Pages V  1 2 >
Reply to this topicStart new topic
1 User(s) are reading this topic (1 Guests and 0 Anonymous Users)
0 Members:

 

Display Mode: Switch to: Standard · Linear+ · Switch to: Outline

Track this topic · Email this topic · Print this topic · Subscribe to this forum

- Lo-Fi Version Time is now: 20th May 2024 - 12:50 AM
Invision Power Board v9.1.4 © 2024  IPS, Inc.
All rights reserved 914World.com © since 2002
914World.com is the fastest growing online 914 community!
We have it all, classifieds, events, forums, vendors, parts, autocross, racing, technical articles, events calendar, newsletter, restoration, gallery, archives, history and more for your Porsche 914 ...