Did someone say 914 rear hollow swaybar?, I considering building them. Options

[McMark]

Bar action didnt change. You didnt change the effective length of the bar...



B

the angle changed tho. so you lose some advantage, droplinks work best when pointed staright up

*Armchair Engineer Says*

Not necessarily straight up, more specifically, parallel to the path of travel of the suspension pickup.

[Trekkor]

In my pic the link is parallel to the shock, while Britain's is not.

His link is kicked slightly toward the back of the car.

(IMG:style_emoticons/default/confused24.gif)

Wouldn't it take more force to move Britain's link the same distance as mine?

I don't really know anything. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/lol2.gif)
Just making noise.

KT

[Aaron Cox]

ok here goes. (armchair engineer LMAO!!!)
seems like shortening drop links to make them parellel to suspension movement would be ideal.

think front sway bars: works best when arm is parallel to ground.

[redshift]

Sorry to get off-topic, but

SHUT UP AARON.


Sorry...


M

[Aaron Cox]

dammit miles! your meds are on the table, take them!!!

be a good boy and go to bed!

[Brad Roberts]

I dont agree about the front bar working "better" with the arms parrallel... lol

B

[Aaron Cox]

I dont agree about the front bar working "better" with the arms parrallel... lol

B

im sorry. you lose mechanical advantage when they arent parralell (IMG:style_emoticons/default/confused24.gif) (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)

wheres CF bob when you need him? hes a physics guru....or even alfred. dont make me do it! (IMG:style_emoticons/default/laugh.gif)

[redshift]

I have enough xanax to pack a Mack truck in a boxcar, and use the xanax for popcorn.

(IMG:style_emoticons/default/wacko.gif)

[Brad Roberts]

The rear links are not straight up and down when the rear bar is in its stock location. They are angled just like in Trekkors pics.. the angle doesnt change when you flip the bar over.

Can you tell me how much mechanical advantage is lost ?

Honestly I dont care. I adjust the bars as needed... doesnt matter whether they are parrallel or not. I dial them according to what the car needs for that given course.


B

[Aaron Cox]

The rear links are not straight up and down when the rear bar is in its stock location. They are angled just like in Trekkors pics.. the angle doesnt change when you flip the bar over.

Can you tell me how much mechanical advantage is lost ?

Honestly I dont care. I adjust the bars as needed... doesnt matter whether they are parrallel or not. I dial them according to what the car needs for that given course.


B

the angle of the "arms" and drop links have alot do do with it.

you get less rotation of the bar, from non parellel arms.....

cant tell you how much advantage is lost... but it is.

[McMark]

Worst case scenario would be that the link is perpendicular to the path of travel. In this case none of the motion of the suspension would be applied to the bar because the link would just rotate.

Best case scenario would be that the link is parallel to the path of travel. In this case all motion of the suspension would be transmitted to the bar with no rotation of the link.

Anything in between is a compromise. This may be splitting hairs. I couldn't tell you where the drop off in effectiveness is. It could be perfectly fine until you get to 80 degrees out of sync with the direction of travel. In which case this is all pointless. But I'd bet it's a direct correlation and the closer you are to parallel, the better because less of your action is spent rotating the link.

If you're using a bar, none of this matters, you just use what you got and make it work. If you're designing a bar you have to think about these sorts of things if you want to make The Best ™.

[Trekkor]

I did not intend to create a storm on our calm sea. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/huh.gif)

All I can say is that Britain has set his bar in a position that is softer compared to mine.

He has demonstrated a way to adjust the "unadjustable" rear bar...Brilliant!

Unlike the SRP front bar with infinate adjustment.

KT

[Ira Ramin]

Interesting theories presented here. The design goal will be to have the swaybar arm and trailing arm close to being parallel to each other, and the drop links perpendicular to them. It doesn’t need to be perfect, but will help provide the most efficient design and minimize additional component loading.

Thanks for all the pictures, comments, and offers to help!! I’d like to work out some kind of initial release at a discounted rate on the first run. Brad would get his discount on the discount. It will kind of be a big test group. I wont promote the bars to my other customers until afterwards.

Brad, I’m looking forward to hearing about your e-commerce site. I’m currently working on my own as well, in between Boxter/996 droplinks, 914 swaybars, boxter swaybars, and keeping up with all the daily stuff.

Here’s a picture of what the 914 bar is starting to look like. There’s still LOT of work to do. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smash.gif)

[Aaron Cox]

im down for a test vehicle. got a t bar up front, why not one in the rear

[Duffster]

Hey Ira...

I just bought your front bar system ...(Don Kravig called you re: my car). My car is pretty well slammed down and the drop links from the stock rear bar are about 30 degrees from vertical at rest. I'm operating on the theory that I can get a lot more compliance and a lot less roll with 165 pound rear springs and a rear bar than going back to 250 pound rear springs with no bar. Andy Ritter likes that feeling of loose fillings I guess (IMG:style_emoticons/default/laugh.gif) but I drive a lot of less than perfect non-track surfaces, and my old fat butt likes a little "give". If I can edge in front of the rest of these miscreants, I'd love to get your rear bar set up (sorry AAron...) when its ready... (IMG:style_emoticons/default/driving.gif)

[Trekkor]

It's been a while...Why are we still waiting? (IMG:http://www.914world.com/bbs2/html/emoticons/lol2.gif)

KT

[McMark]

I wouldn't expect anything until next year. (IMG:http://www.914world.com/bbs2/html/emoticons/confused24.gif)

[Ira Ramin]

“Next Year” ??

It’s coming along slowly, but not that slowly. It’s actually almost ready for testing and was on display yesterday at the Euro/Dunkel swap event. Just received the last of the NC machine parts on Friday. I still need to finish the softer bar (this week) that we’ll be testing, but it will be going onto the test car (thanks Mark G.) in two weeks. We’ll be testing at the next PCA event at the end of next month, but hopefully we can find an SCCA slalom or at least an empty parking lot for some pretesting. I’ll post some pictures later on tonight.

Ira

[nine14cats]

Hi Ira,

Did Brad Roberts talk with you about using my new race car as a test bed for the rear bar? Late last year he said he spoke to you about it.


914-6 3.6 liter 993 motor
Semi-Tube Frame
Raised suspension points
Slicks all around
etc....

I've been curious as the frame is close to painting....I want all of the welding done soon.

Let me know. Thanks.

Bill P.

[Ira Ramin]

Hi Bill,
Thanks for your offer to help out with testing. I haven’t talked to Brad about it much lately, except that he did mention that he would have a car to do some testing with. I built two sets of prototypes and will be testing the first one on a local San Diego car. After some initial testing here, the other set will probably go on one of Brad’s customer cars so that he could be involved with the testing. Please tell me a little more about your car, springs, shocks, wheel size, ect. There’re a few guys that have offered to help with testing so far. If Brad still wants to be involved, I’m probably going to leave it up to him to decide who would be the best candidate.

BTW where is Brad these days? I haven’t heard much from him lately. Is he still stuck in the snow somewhere?

Here’s a picture of what it looks like so far. I still need to finish a softer bar and build some backing plates for mounting to the bottom of the trunk.

Ira