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> Oil Squirters, In the valve covers...How do ya do it?
Britain Smith
post Nov 2 2004, 11:00 PM
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So I am running Pauter roller rockers on my turbo motor and there has been some concerns raised by Jake Raby and Charles Navarro about them failing because they are not self-oiling. Does anyone have any information or pictures on installing a set of oil squirters in the valve covers to lubricate the rockers? Where would be the best place to tap into the engine's oil system? What kind or nozzles do you run and how much oil should be routed to them? These are just a couple of questions that I have...I am sure that more will come up as the discussion begins.

-Britain
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McMark
post Nov 2 2004, 11:05 PM
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Picture of the rocker please. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/biggrin.gif)
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Britain Smith
post Nov 2 2004, 11:10 PM
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(IMG:http://www.britainsmith.com/Porsche/912Project/TurboMotor/CoatedParts/images/130_3093_JPG.jpg)

I am also running the carbon fiber valve covers from Carbon Joe...

(IMG:http://www.britainsmith.com/Porsche/CarbonFiber/images/2%20black_jpg.jpg)
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Brett W
post Nov 2 2004, 11:17 PM
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You need to get some very small tubing. I guess you could use brake line if you are running steel valve covers and run it the length of each valve cover on the inside. and out one end. You will need to weld it to the underside of each valve cover. You will also have to add a small AN fitting to the outside of the rocker cover. 3-4 AN should work OK. Then you will need to drill some very small holes in the tubing in line with each of the rockers. I would start with nothing larger than .020 and run it and see what happens. I would pull oil from a source right after the pump. Maybe a small T-fitting off the pressure side of the pump.

These are roller rockers so they don't need lots of oil. What happens to the oil being carried up the pushrods? I would also add some extentions to feed the springs as well.
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McMark
post Nov 2 2004, 11:27 PM
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What about pin holes in the actual push rods? They're full of oil.
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Brett W
post Nov 2 2004, 11:49 PM
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Bad idea. You do not want a part under that much stress to have any possible points of fracture.
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Aaron Cox
post Nov 3 2004, 12:40 AM
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damn! thems purty! (IMG:style_emoticons/default/wub.gif)
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Mark Henry
post Nov 3 2004, 06:51 AM
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QUOTE(markd@mac.com @ Nov 3 2004, 01:27 AM)
What about pin holes in the actual push rods?  They're full of oil.

If I remember right that's one solution (one pin hole near the tip) that Jake has used and I "think" it worked for him. Again I “think” that he also welded the one tip shut on these pushrods.
I'd have the same concerns as Brett.

If you went the tubing route I'd tap them right into the head, It would be a PITA adjusting valves if they were in the cover.
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Walter
post Nov 3 2004, 07:53 AM
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QUOTE(Britain Smith @ Nov 2 2004, 09:00 PM)
Does anyone have any information or pictures on installing a set of oil squirters in the valve covers to lubricate the rockers?  Where would be the best place to tap into the engine's oil system?  What kind or nozzles do you run and how much oil should be routed to them?  These are just a couple of questions that I have...
-Britain

Hello Britain,

In the STF, in the performance section, Jake published some very detailed pictures of an engine where he had used squirters to the valve covers also on a Pauter roller rocker set-up.
Maybe do a search in that forumsection.
Looked very trick, but also a lot of work. All braided lines and AN blue anodized fittings, very nice.

The problem of the not-self oiling bit is (if I understood correctly) that the oil doesn't get splashed to the valveguides (lubrication) and the valve gets too hot and snaps. The rocker itself is OK because of the needle bearing of course.
Also, when mostly high revving is done, there seemed no need for the oil squirters either since then there will be enough splashing around in the head (drag racers use them without squirters without any troubles), but with a turbo engine, its the opposite right?

Regards,
Walter
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Britain Smith
post Nov 4 2004, 12:46 AM
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I looked around in the STF's, but couldn't find any posts discussing in detail on how to do it. Jake? Anyone?

-Britain
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Mueller
post Nov 4 2004, 01:06 AM
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sorry, not a P-car, but the mods to this Volvo block will give you an idea to think about....

piston oil squirters

another squirter picture album, BMW oil squirters used

I'm pretty sure you can buy the 911 engine squirters seperately....these should have the check valves in them as well (like the BMW units)
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Walter
post Nov 4 2004, 01:19 AM
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QUOTE(Britain Smith @ Nov 3 2004, 10:46 PM)
I looked around in the STF's, but couldn't find any posts discussing in detail on how to do it. Jake? Anyone?

-Britain

Well, I did a search in the STF VW Speed and Drag racing forum on 'Pauter rockers' and voila:
http://shoptalkforums.com/viewtopic.php?t=...er=asc&start=15

More specific then this would be difficult to find (IMG:style_emoticons/default/wink.gif)

Greetings,
Walter
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cnavarro
post Nov 4 2004, 06:09 AM
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I have no qualms with the rockers themselves, they are really nice pieces, but as Wally mentioned, they don't lube the valve guides. My failure resulted in the valve guide coming apart and valve snapping, destroying one JE and very badly chewing up the combustion chamber. At least with nikasil, the cylinders didn't even get marked. I think it's a great idea Mueller mentioned using squirters from a non- P-car, something with a low pressure cut-off. The extra oil will drain back to the sump, but it might be prudent in the worse case scenario to put a tuna can or deep sump, just in case the oil takes longer than expected to drain back.

Charles Navarro
LN Engineering
http://www.LNengineering.com
Aircooled Precision Performance
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machina
post Nov 4 2004, 07:21 AM
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I thought there is already too much oil dumped in the valve cover area. I found this pic of a TI but I'm sure the TIV has a similar condition.


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914werke
post Nov 4 2004, 11:58 AM
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Walter what are the ratio of thos Rockers?
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Walter
post Nov 4 2004, 01:17 PM
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QUOTE(rdauenhauer @ Nov 4 2004, 09:58 AM)
Walter what are the ratio of thos Rockers?

Pauter advertises them as 1:1,48 , but measurement done by Jake and others showed it was more 1:1,5-ish
Stock is 1:1,3 average, so they are quite huge. Too much for almost any cam.
Pauter has two special grinds for just those rockers. Jake is not a fan of them IIRC, probably just because of the non-self oiling part and the work involved to make it right.
I really like the design as well.
The only time when you really would NEED to use them is with a very large stroke like a 86mm. Then you can't have big cam lift because of crank-cam lobe interference and need the high ratio of the Pauters to have any valve lift (IMG:style_emoticons/default/sad.gif)

Best regards,
Walter
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aircooledboy
post Nov 4 2004, 01:31 PM
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Hijack warning!!!!!!!!!!! Please remain calm.

Stupid Q. from the special education section of the audience: Why would you need to squirt oil on the bottom of the piston? Is wrist pin lubrication a big issue(since I has a P car with an en-gine that looks sorta like that)?

Hijack over. You may return to your seats now.


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J P Stein
post Nov 4 2004, 01:40 PM
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Piston cooling.
911 case squirters don't open till about 45psi oil pressure is built up, so cross them off your list.
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anthony
post Nov 4 2004, 02:56 PM
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Britain, why use these? They sound like they are more trouble than they are worth.
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Britain Smith
post Nov 4 2004, 03:09 PM
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Well..for several reasons. First of all, I have them already. Also, I am using a 78mm crank and I already have a cam that Jake designed to go with this combo. It's all in the combo as Jake puts it. I will just go down the oil squirter path using the suggestions from all...it doesn't seem like too much of an issue.

Here are some pics that were from STF but the links were broken...I email the guy and asked for copies. I believe that this is Jake's set-up.

-Britain


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