 Advise or Thread referrals: 1.8 liter engine rebuild / upgrade w/ stock L-Jet, I have a well maintained L-Jet that & would like to keep. |
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| pnewman |
 Dec 23 2012, 10:27 AM
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#1
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Member  Group: Members Posts: 371 Joined: 15-February 05 From: Lincolnshire, IL Member No.: 3,606 Region Association: Upper MidWest  |
The title says it all.
Looking for advise and or threads to help me make informed decisions regarding a possible future rebuild / upgrade of my 1.8 liter that has a very reliable and well maintained L-Jet injection. I have heard 1911 is a good evolutionary step. I have heard "2.0 liter max!" I have heard not to go bigger than 2.0 liter as my FI system won't play nice with it. ...but I have heard that you can use the famed 2056 w/ mods. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/wacko.gif) I looked around the world but only found bits and pieces of info on doing 1.8 liter L-jet upgrades. I am sure that I overlooked a classic thread on this subject. Any info or leads are appreciated. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/santa_smiley.gif) Thank you in advance for your help! and a Merry Christmas too All! (IMG:style_emoticons/default/santa_smiley.gif) |
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| davesprinkle |
Dec 23 2012, 10:34 AM
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Senior Member Group: Members Posts: 720 Joined: 13-October 04 From: Berkeley, CA Member No.: 2,943 Region Association: None 
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Djet doesn't like changes in engine displacement. But Ljet handles increased displacement (within reason) with no problems.
(Without getting too technical, this is because the mechanism of airflow measurement is different between the two systems. Djet measures pressure and INFERS an airflow based on a displacement. Ljet just measures the airflow directly with no assumptions.) I just recently had my stock 1.8liter upgraded to a 2056. Runs just like stock. |
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| AndyB |
Dec 23 2012, 10:56 AM
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#3
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The Governor is watching me Group: Members Posts: 1,115 Joined: 10-April 10 From: Philadelphia New York Member No.: 11,595 Region Association: North East States |
I have or should say had a 1.8 with L-jet. I now run a 2.2l with L-jet. I had Racer Chris build it. I enjoy every time I step on the throttle. I don't know what the hp is and don't really care. What I do know is my car is way more fun now.
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| Black22 |
Dec 23 2012, 11:31 AM
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#4
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Senior Member Group: Members Posts: 886 Joined: 1-November 07 From: Creswell, OR Member No.: 8,290 Region Association: Pacific Northwest |
I have a 1911 w/ L-jet. It was a good upgrade over the stock 1.8. I also had my heads modified to 2.0L specs with ported intakes. Car is a lot more fun! I can only imagine what a 2056 is like!
I think the L-jet can handle more displacement that 2 liters. As much air as I'm pulling through my engine now, I can still tune it very rich. When you can't adjust out of the lean anymore, then you're in trouble. |
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| pnewman |
Dec 23 2012, 05:47 PM
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#5
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Member Group: Members Posts: 371 Joined: 15-February 05 From: Lincolnshire, IL Member No.: 3,606 Region Association: Upper MidWest |
QUOTE(davesprinkle @ Dec 23 2012, 08:34 AM)  Djet doesn't like changes in engine displacement. But Ljet handles increased displacement (within reason) with no problems. (Without getting too technical, this is because the mechanism of airflow measurement is different between the two systems. Djet measures pressure and INFERS an airflow based on a displacement. Ljet just measures the airflow directly with no assumptions.) I just recently had my stock 1.8liter upgraded to a 2056. Runs just like stock. You are just the person that I am looking to talk to. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/piratenanner.gif) I am so glad that you replied to my thread! I have soooo many questions to ask you. Do you have a build thread? I would like to know your numbers if you don't mind sharing that info. $/Hp/cam & engine specs etc. Thanks again, Pete |
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| pnewman |
Dec 23 2012, 05:52 PM
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#6
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Member Group: Members Posts: 371 Joined: 15-February 05 From: Lincolnshire, IL Member No.: 3,606 Region Association: Upper MidWest |
QUOTE(Black22 @ Dec 23 2012, 09:31 AM) I have a 1911 w/ L-jet. It was a good upgrade over the stock 1.8. I also had my heads modified to 2.0L specs with ported intakes. Car is a lot more fun! I can only imagine what a 2056 is like! I think the L-jet can handle more displacement that 2 liters. As much air as I'm pulling through my engine now, I can still tune it very rich. When you can't adjust out of the lean anymore, then you're in trouble. I couldn't agree more with your gauge of maxing out the potential of an L-Jet being the inability to run rich being a limit. |
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| zonedoubt |
Dec 24 2012, 01:45 AM
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#7
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Canadian Member Group: Members Posts: 668 Joined: 14-May 03 From: Vancouver, BC Member No.: 696 Region Association: Canada |
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| ConeDodger |
Dec 24 2012, 12:09 PM
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#8
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Apex killer! Group: Members Posts: 23,586 Joined: 31-December 04 From: Tahoe Area Member No.: 3,380 Region Association: Northern California
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LJet estimates the air coming in to the engine by the position of the flap on the AFM. DJet uses the vacuum that the engine is sending to the MPS. I have found LJet to be a much more flexible system. I think you can go to 2056 without trouble. Besides, it is air, not fuel that makes it lean. As long as you keep the intake stock, you probably don't have a problem.
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| pnewman |
Dec 24 2012, 03:39 PM
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#9
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Member Group: Members Posts: 371 Joined: 15-February 05 From: Lincolnshire, IL Member No.: 3,606 Region Association: Upper MidWest |
QUOTE(ConeDodger @ Dec 24 2012, 10:09 AM) Besides, it is air, not fuel that makes it lean. As long as you keep the intake stock, you probably don't have a problem. True Dat': Another member has modified his air intake to feed his hungry beast (displacement) while upgrading the injectors. All whilst thru the L-Jet. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/biggrin.gif) Looks like 2056 might be a simpler install but larger displacements seem to be possible with some mod's. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/piratenanner.gif) I wonder if anyone has dyno'd an upgraded engine utilizing the L-Jet. Good Stuff (IMG:style_emoticons/default/chowtime.gif) |
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| Katmanken |
Dec 25 2012, 10:31 AM
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#10
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You haven't seen me if anybody asks... Group: Members Posts: 4,738 Joined: 14-June 03 From: USA Member No.: 819 Region Association: Upper MidWest |
Need to throw the cam into the mix. Too lumpy of a cam (like a carb cam) can make the L-jet air measurement flap flutter which oscillates the mass air flow signal sent to the brain box. L-jet is designed to run with a fairly smooth air flow signal curve across the entire rpm range, and adding an oscillating signal on top of that makes it really hard to estimate how much fuel to squirt.
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| ChrisFoley |
Dec 25 2012, 12:15 PM
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#11
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I am Tangerine Racing Group: Members Posts: 7,925 Joined: 29-January 03 From: Bolton, CT Member No.: 209 Region Association: None
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QUOTE(Katmanken @ Dec 25 2012, 11:31 AM) Need to throw the cam into the mix. Too lumpy of a cam (like a carb cam) can make the L-jet air measurement flap flutter which oscillates the mass air flow signal sent to the brain box. L-jet is designed to run with a fairly smooth air flow signal curve across the entire rpm range, and adding an oscillating signal on top of that makes it really hard to estimate how much fuel to squirt. A cam with significant overlap won't cause the flapper to oscillate. L-jet doesn't use MAF. Scarlet75's 2.2L has a Webcam 86A. We installed injectors for a Nissan 280Z and a larger AFM from a vanagon to be certain there would be no shortage of either air or fuel. Since stock heat was a requirement we installed a Tangerine EVO IV Silencer to improve exhaust flow. No dyno results, but we were shooting for 140hp. The torque above 4000rpm is a hoot. |
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| pnewman |
Dec 30 2012, 10:41 AM
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#12
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Member Group: Members Posts: 371 Joined: 15-February 05 From: Lincolnshire, IL Member No.: 3,606 Region Association: Upper MidWest |
Does anyone know of a site that has a step by step guide to adjusting L-Jet injection:
i.e. AFM |
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| zonedoubt |
Dec 30 2012, 11:19 AM
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#13
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Canadian Member Group: Members Posts: 668 Joined: 14-May 03 From: Vancouver, BC Member No.: 696 Region Association: Canada |
QUOTE(pnewman @ Dec 30 2012, 08:41 AM) Does anyone know of a site that has a step by step guide to adjusting L-Jet injection: i.e. AFM http://manuals.type4.org/ljet/index.html |
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| Black22 |
Dec 30 2012, 01:44 PM
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#14
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Senior Member Group: Members Posts: 886 Joined: 1-November 07 From: Creswell, OR Member No.: 8,290 Region Association: Pacific Northwest |
I posted this a while back and can be searched here as "L-jet adjustment".
http://www.itinerant-air-cooled.com/viewtopic.php?t=7761 ***Adjust at your own risk*** Certain experience and equipment ( i.e. gauges) are required to do this properly! |
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| pnewman |
Jan 2 2013, 06:25 PM
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#15
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Member Group: Members Posts: 371 Joined: 15-February 05 From: Lincolnshire, IL Member No.: 3,606 Region Association: Upper MidWest |
I was thinking of starting a new thread to ask this question but perhaps it is unnecessary:
Has anyone heard / used or know the reputation of: www.importmotor.com I am interested in: http://www.importmotor.com/store/ProductDe...mp;DealerId=108 2110 cc sounds like a good max fit for the L-Jet upgrade but don't want to have a piece of junk engine either. Thoughts? (IMG:style_emoticons/default/confused24.gif) Their prices look competative. I am sure that by the time you add the necessary upgrades and options to make it apples to apples it might come up to other quotes. Thanks, Pete |
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| AndyB |
Jan 2 2013, 06:35 PM
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#16
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The Governor is watching me Group: Members Posts: 1,115 Joined: 10-April 10 From: Philadelphia New York Member No.: 11,595 Region Association: North East States |
QUOTE(pnewman @ Jan 2 2013, 07:25 PM) I was thinking of starting a new thread to ask this question but perhaps it is unnecessary: Has anyone heard / used or know the reputation of: www.importmotor.com I am interested in: http://www.importmotor.com/store/ProductDe...mp;DealerId=108 2110 cc sounds like a good max fit for the L-Jet upgrade but don't want to have a piece of junk engine either. Thoughts? (IMG:style_emoticons/default/confused24.gif) Their prices look competative. I am sure that by the time you add the necessary upgrades and options to make it apples to apples it might come up to other quotes. Thanks, Pete Pete, Do a search on them they have been talked about on the site. |
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| wndsnd |
Jan 2 2013, 06:40 PM
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#17
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You wanted a horse, but got a goat. Nobody wants a goat.... Group: Members Posts: 2,861 Joined: 12-February 12 From: North Shore, MA Member No.: 14,124 Region Association: North East States  |
QUOTE(pnewman @ Jan 2 2013, 07:25 PM) I was thinking of starting a new thread to ask this question but perhaps it is unnecessary: Has anyone heard / used or know the reputation of: www.importmotor.com I am interested in: http://www.importmotor.com/store/ProductDe...mp;DealerId=108 2110 cc sounds like a good max fit for the L-Jet upgrade but don't want to have a piece of junk engine either. Thoughts? (IMG:style_emoticons/default/confused24.gif) Their prices look competative. I am sure that by the time you add the necessary upgrades and options to make it apples to apples it might come up to other quotes. Good heads alone are over 2 grand. I would be suspect Thanks, Pete |
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| pnewman |
Jan 2 2013, 10:04 PM
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#18
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Member Group: Members Posts: 371 Joined: 15-February 05 From: Lincolnshire, IL Member No.: 3,606 Region Association: Upper MidWest |
HOLY CRAP! I didn't think that running such a simple search would provide such results. I've been "learned." I like the one comment: "...as popular as Herpes." I am going to be using that one from now on. I can't imagine how they have stayed in business. One of the owners must be a lawyer. That is the only possible explanation. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/av-943.gif) I wonder if the cams are made out of paper mache! (IMG:style_emoticons/default/biggrin.gif) and again. HOLY CRAP! |
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| pnewman |
Jan 2 2013, 10:18 PM
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#19
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Member Group: Members Posts: 371 Joined: 15-February 05 From: Lincolnshire, IL Member No.: 3,606 Region Association: Upper MidWest |
Ok Ok Ok (Joe Pesci)
So I am not interested in using Importdoodoo's.com But I must say that they're: "venom" motor spec's interest me. I wonder if I were to buy it from them if I would get "bit." (couldn't resist.) Seriously, to push the limits of the L-Jet upgrade beyond the 2056 but perhaps not to the brave 2.2 liter I found these spec's interesting. http://www.importmotor.com/store/ProductDe...mp;DealerId=108 2110cc BigBore Stroker Longblock Engine .. 1.7/1.8 Models ... "VENOM" ITEM #2020 "VENOM" SIZE 2110cc BORE 94mm STROKE 76mm CYL HEADS 4-Stud Intake FLYWHEEL 215mm BIG-VALVE '248' Cylinder Heads. 44mm x 38mm Valves. High Performance Camshaft...423 Lift / 270 Duration Thoughts on this combination? (IMG:style_emoticons/default/confused24.gif) |
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| Mike Sanford |
Jan 3 2013, 06:51 PM
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#20
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Newbie Group: Members Posts: 34 Joined: 15-September 12 From: Tucson, AZ Member No.: 14,935 Region Association: Southwest Region |
QUOTE(Racer Chris @ Dec 25 2012, 11:15 AM) ] Scarlet75's 2.2L has a Webcam 86A. We installed injectors for a Nissan 280Z and a larger AFM from a vanagon to be certain there would be no shortage of either air or fuel. Since stock heat was a requirement we installed a Tangerine EVO IV Silencer to improve exhaust flow. No dyno results, but we were shooting for 140hp. The torque above 4000rpm is a hoot. Is there a build thread or any more information out there on this? |
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