 Turbo for a 914..., this may work |
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| spare time toys |
 Nov 9 2004, 01:33 PM
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#1
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hooked on grilling food.  Group: Members Posts: 4,059 Joined: 3-April 04 From: West Plano Tx Member No.: 1,884 Region Association: Southwest Region  |
Check www.ststurbo.com they put it away from the engine. I would think it would have a big turbo lag. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/huh.gif)
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| Mueller |
Nov 9 2004, 02:03 PM
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#2
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914 Freak! Group: Members Posts: 17,146 Joined: 4-January 03 From: Antioch, CA Member No.: 87 Region Association: None 
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same basic design/idea of how Ben M., iamchappy, and a few others are running thier 914 turbos....people need to quit getting hung up on the "lag" issue...
with things properly tested and designed, even with long, long tubing, one can still have a workable system |
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| Jake Raby |
Nov 9 2004, 04:20 PM
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#3
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Engine Surgeon Group: Members Posts: 9,394 Joined: 31-August 03 From: Lost Member No.: 1,095 Region Association: South East States |
Lag can be compensated for with the right combo!
Now, just how are you going to keep the combustion inside the engine??? Head leaks with TIV Turbos are the only reason I don't do more with them... BUT, LOOK OUT in 2005! |
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| airsix |
Nov 9 2004, 06:38 PM
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#4
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I have bees in my epiglotis Group: Members Posts: 2,196 Joined: 7-February 03 From: Kennewick Man (E. WA State) Member No.: 266 |
Lag is simply a function of heat loss, not tube length. Long tubes just loose heat faster. If you insulate there will be little lag even if the pipes are long. Remember, pressure change propogation happens at the speed of sound. At 1000ft per second you are not going to notice the difference between a 4ft pipe and a 3ft pipe assuming the same heat loss between them. I have used absolutely no insulating yet and I actually have to TRY to not get on boost. I say that because driving to and from the office I try to stay off of boost for the last two miles of the drive to cool things down. When I'm "on it" the engine is always above 3,000rpm, and I've got 9psi by that point so there is no "lag" to speak of. If I lug it down to 1,500rpm and floor it, then yes, there is lag as the turbo spools up. Boost will ramp-up steadily from 2,300-3,000rpm. I actually like this. The car is very drivable with the torque coming on smoothly at the bottom. When I need serious power I drop to whatever gear puts me at ~3,000rpm or better and the boost is instantanious. So are the smiles. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/biggrin.gif)
-Ben M. ps - and I'm sure Jake is correct regarding combos and head leaks. |
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| JeffBowlsby |
Nov 9 2004, 06:42 PM
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#5
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914 Wiring Harnesses Group: Members Posts: 8,499 Joined: 7-January 03 From: San Ramon CA Member No.: 104 Region Association: None
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Attached thumbnail(s) 
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| SLITS |
Nov 9 2004, 06:49 PM
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#6
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"This Utah shit is HARSH!" Group: Benefactors Posts: 13,602 Joined: 22-February 04 From: SoCal Mountains ... Member No.: 1,696 Region Association: None  |
QUOTE(Jake Raby @ Nov 9 2004, 03:20 PM) Lag can be compensated for with the right combo! Now, just how are you going to keep the combustion inside the engine??? Head leaks with TIV Turbos are the only reason I don't do more with them... BUT, LOOK OUT in 2005! An engine girdle? |
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| Joe Bob |
Nov 9 2004, 06:53 PM
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#7
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Retired admin, banned a few times Group: Members Posts: 17,427 Joined: 24-December 02 From: Boulder CO Member No.: 5 Region Association: None |
QUOTE(airsix @ Nov 9 2004, 04:38 PM) Lag is simply a function of heat loss, not tube length. Long tubes just loose heat faster. If you insulate there will be little lag even if the pipes are long. Remember, pressure change propogation happens at the speed of sound. At 1000ft per second you are not going to notice the difference between a 4ft pipe and a 3ft pipe assuming the same heat loss between them. I have used absolutely no insulating yet and I actually have to TRY to not get on boost. I say that because driving to and from the office I try to stay off of boost for the last two miles of the drive to cool things down. When I'm "on it" the engine is always above 3,000rpm, and I've got 9psi by that point so there is no "lag" to speak of. If I lug it down to 1,500rpm and floor it, then yes, there is lag as the turbo spools up. Boost will ramp-up steadily from 2,300-3,000rpm. I actually like this. The car is very drivable with the torque coming on smoothly at the bottom. When I need serious power I drop to whatever gear puts me at ~3,000rpm or better and the boost is instantanious. So are the smiles. :D -Ben M. ps - and I'm sure Jake is correct regarding combos and head leaks. Can't you rig an adjustable boost controller for the cockpit? My Vortech Blower has that..... BTW...I got a Crown Type IV turbo kit in a trade for some parts a few years ago....sold it to a guy in Solvang....never heard from him again....assumed he keeled himself.... (IMG:style_emoticons/default/confused24.gif) |
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| TimT |
Nov 9 2004, 06:56 PM
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#8
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retired Group: Members Posts: 4,033 Joined: 18-February 03 From: Wantagh, NY Member No.: 313 |
heh, lag.... just keep the engine revved and you wont worry about lag
never drop below 4000 rpm or so and you wont worry about lag |
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| redshift |
Nov 9 2004, 07:11 PM
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#9
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Bless the Hell out of you! Group: Members Posts: 10,926 Joined: 29-June 03 Member No.: 869 |
Nor will you have to worry about heater fans!
If you guys are driving these things lower than 2k/rpms.... I feel sorry for ya.. Jeeees! M |
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| 914forme |
Nov 9 2004, 07:14 PM
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#10
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Times a wastin', get wrenchin'! Group: Members Posts: 3,896 Joined: 24-July 04 From: Dayton, Ohio Member No.: 2,388 Region Association: None
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Nice Old school Crown turbo system, thou I did not care for the design the boast on these was restricted via the boast controller, very inefficient design adds too much heat to the charge. The more modern - Yeah right Wategate is a better choice then yes it is easy to add a dial to the cockpit and watch the parts fly. I don't use them but when my ricer buds want me to add one, I put it on and then rig it to only make the boast gauge go up and down, instead of the computer.
Nobody complains about to much power - they complain when the engine burns, drops parts or punches holes into things! Unless you are racing, and you want to turn down the boast don't think you can tune with a frickin' knob! I see so many badly tuned cars it is not funny. I have an $80,000 show truck sitting in the garage right now with a super cool built engine a nice blower and Accel fuel injection. It runs like crap and thats why it is here, I am going to reprogram the Accel and get it tuned properly, have to fix the alignment and wipers etc.... This guy spent 80K on a piece of crap that wins shows but you can't drive the dang thing even down a parade line at the show. Yeah he as tons of knobs-on the dash, I am going to gut the and make them into a placebo group when this thing is done. He is paying me to make it run correctly, don't need him jacking it up because he thinks he knows EFI, engines, supercharges, gearing etc... Heck he could not find a shop to do the alignment on this thing, a piece of chalk and a framing square and a plumb bob worked just fine for me. Since the thing is jacked up so high, its not a problem setting everything by measuring with a tape. Can't believe people pay for this crap, I am now back to turning wrenches for a living. No I did not give up the day job - this is beer money (IMG:style_emoticons/default/beer3.gif) Next project is a GTO no not a ferrari (I wish) engine rebuild on a Pontiac 400 V8, this guy restored it, and left the engine and drive train alone - dang, oh well more money for the holidays. A bug is next - electrical, and the a 914 race car for PCA GT5R, I am becoming the handy man of autos around here. Bring it on Daddy needs a new plasma cutter! Dang sorry about the rant - MikeZ knows how to turn my knob I guess! (IMG:style_emoticons/default/biggrin.gif) |
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| Jake Raby |
Nov 9 2004, 07:15 PM
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#11
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Engine Surgeon Group: Members Posts: 9,394 Joined: 31-August 03 From: Lost Member No.: 1,095 Region Association: South East States |
Just gear it like a damn Dirtbike and no sweat!
But you still gota keep the combustion in the chambers fellas...... Thats not easy, even for me.. It can be done, especially if you keep a small bore, that has been my key for making it work.... All successful Turbos we have done thus far used a stock 1700 cylinder bored .5mm to accept a 90.5mm type I piston. Couple that with your flavor of stroke and rod ratio, cam and properly outfitted heads and you have something.... Otherwise it'll look like the fourth of July under your car when those head start flamin under boost!!!! My most favorite example of this was the customer of another builder that was complaining about oil leaks from his engine.... Thats because the combustion leaks were frying his pushrod tubes and baking the o rings in 50 miles... I tore it down, built it right, tossed the Turbo on Ebay and the guy has been happy every since and says it makes more power N/A my way than it did Turbo! (But his combo was totally fucked up anyway the first time around) |
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| redshift |
Nov 9 2004, 08:17 PM
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#12
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Bless the Hell out of you! Group: Members Posts: 10,926 Joined: 29-June 03 Member No.: 869 |
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| Jake Raby |
Nov 9 2004, 08:29 PM
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#13
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Engine Surgeon Group: Members Posts: 9,394 Joined: 31-August 03 From: Lost Member No.: 1,095 Region Association: South East States |
Yes, sir....... (IMG:style_emoticons/default/wacko.gif)
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| airsix |
Nov 9 2004, 09:57 PM
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#14
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I have bees in my epiglotis Group: Members Posts: 2,196 Joined: 7-February 03 From: Kennewick Man (E. WA State) Member No.: 266 |
QUOTE(redshift @ Nov 9 2004, 05:11 PM) If you guys are driving these things lower than 2k/rpms.... I feel sorry for ya.. That's my point. There is only lag below 3,000rpm and since durring any spirited driving I'm always above that, I never experience lag. As for longevity, head leaks, etc. Well, I built this on a 1.7 which should give me the best head sealing I can get from a stockish typeIV. The total turbo install cost me $175 (I'm a Root/Malmz sorta guy (IMG:style_emoticons/default/welder.gif) (IMG:style_emoticons/default/aktion035.gif) ). If the engine goes I won't shed any tears. It's been way too much fun already. I'll drop in another $250 1.7 and do it all over again. Unless I've already dove into a Subaru turbo conversion before this motor lets loose. In the mean time I'm going to keep smiling because this thing is a riot. -Ben M. |
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| Jake Raby |
Nov 9 2004, 10:01 PM
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#15
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Engine Surgeon Group: Members Posts: 9,394 Joined: 31-August 03 From: Lost Member No.: 1,095 Region Association: South East States |
Have Fun! You are starting from a solid base. The 1.7 is the best TIV that was built in terms of strength and head sealing..
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| airsix |
Nov 9 2004, 10:16 PM
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#16
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I have bees in my epiglotis Group: Members Posts: 2,196 Joined: 7-February 03 From: Kennewick Man (E. WA State) Member No.: 266 |
QUOTE(Jake Raby @ Nov 9 2004, 08:01 PM) Have Fun! You are starting from a solid base. The 1.7 is the best TIV that was built in terms of strength and head sealing.. I know you're right about head sealing issues (even with a 1.7), and I recognize that I'm probably running on borrowed time. I'm sure having fun though while it lasts. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/wink.gif) -Ben M. |
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| Jake Raby |
Nov 9 2004, 10:27 PM
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#17
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Engine Surgeon Group: Members Posts: 9,394 Joined: 31-August 03 From: Lost Member No.: 1,095 Region Association: South East States |
Hell, I take risks all the time, thats how i foundout about the issues!
Run the damn thing till parts are hanging out and have as much fun as you can! |
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| Brett W |
Nov 9 2004, 11:07 PM
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#18
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Advanced Member Group: Members Posts: 2,856 Joined: 17-September 03 From: huntsville, al Member No.: 1,169 Region Association: None
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When you want to get serious about boost get a Subaru motor or something else Japanese. They can handle a ton of boost in stock form.
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| airsix |
Nov 9 2004, 11:42 PM
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#19
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I have bees in my epiglotis Group: Members Posts: 2,196 Joined: 7-February 03 From: Kennewick Man (E. WA State) Member No.: 266 |
QUOTE(Brett W @ Nov 9 2004, 09:07 PM) When you want to get serious about boost get a Subaru motor or something else Japanese. They can handle a ton of boost in stock form. Subaru turbo was the long-term plan but I wasn't ready to undertake such a big project yet. I figured the typeIV turbo would be a quick/cheap way to get me by for a while. I was so fed-up with the gutless stock 1.7 that I had to do something. So I threw together the junkyard turbo in two weekends and I've been all smiles ever since. Now that the 914 isn't my daily driver I can get serious about doing a long-term project like the turbo Subaru and there's not a time-crunch to get it back on the road like there's always been in the past. -Ben M. |
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| mattillac |
Nov 10 2004, 12:04 AM
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#20
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robots! Group: Members Posts: 536 Joined: 27-October 04 From: vallejo,ca Member No.: 3,020 |
what would be a reasonable amount of boost for a stock 2.0 type-4? any upgraded head gaskets or head/cylinder mods to help hold in boost?
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