conversion to 911 underbody front sway bar, what parts do I need Options

[shuie]

I want to install a later style 911 sway bar on my '71 914. I am not going to 5 lug and I do not want to get into changing the struts on my '71 or swapping an entire 911 front suspension onto the car. I just want to use the later 911 under the body sway bar with the early 914 struts & non vented brakes.

I know I need the tabs for the A-arms. Can I use the 911 A-arms and keep my early struts? Will the early 914 balljoints work in the 911 A-arms? Do I need the aluminum cross member from the 911?

TIA

[Dave_Darling]

The tabs on the A arms for the under-body bar are quite different from those for the through-body bar. Or at least in a different location. So you'll either need to fab and weld on the 911-style tabs, or use 911 A arms. I believe you'll need to switch to 911 torsion bars if you go with 911 A arms--obviously with the 911 height adjuster as well.

I don't think you need the 911 crossmember, I think (not sure!) that the brackets for the under-body bar bolt up to the mounting holes for the crossmember, not to the crossmember itself.


Why are you changing over? The under-body style has worse geometry, is kind of a pain to install and remove, cannot be made adjustable, and requires a bunch of extra work as you can see.

--DD

[shuie]

Why are you changing over?

Im just looking for a reasonably cheap upgrade to my current sway bar. see below... I mean, this was a good effort by the PO, but (IMG:style_emoticons/default/huh.gif) (IMG:style_emoticons/default/blink.gif)

(IMG:http://www.914world.com/bbs2/uploads_offsite/lh5.googleusercontent.com-2075-1358180683.1.jpg)

From the pictures I can see in the other threads I do not think I need the 911 cross member.

It wouldn't make a difference to me if I used 911 t-bars, but I really don't want to change my struts. I've already got a really nice set of 320i calipers from PMB and a good set of slotted and cryo'ed non-vented rotors that are not going to work if I change struts. Do you know if I can keep the '71 struts with the 911 A-arms?

This is going to be a light weight street car. I really don't want to drop $400-$600 on a heavy duty adjustable sway bar for this car. I figured I could go with the later 911 style bar for half (or less) of that cost. I won't have to weld in the reenforcement plates and it may give me a little more room under the tank for a possible fuel pump relocation.

[ruby914]

Why are you changing over?

Im just looking for a reasonably cheap upgrade to my current sway bar. see below... I mean, this was a good effort by the PO, but (IMG:style_emoticons/default/huh.gif) (IMG:style_emoticons/default/blink.gif)

(IMG:http://www.914world.com/bbs2/uploads_offsite/lh5.googleusercontent.com-2075-1358180683.1.jpg)

From the pictures I can see in the other threads I do not think I need the 911 cross member.

It wouldn't make a difference to me if I used 911 t-bars, but I really don't want to change my struts. I've already got a really nice set of 320i calipers from PMB and a good set of slotted and cryo'ed non-vented rotors that are not going to work if I change struts. Do you know if I can keep the '71 struts with the 911 A-arms?

This is going to be a light weight street car. I really don't want to drop $400-$600 on a heavy duty adjustable sway bar for this car. I figured I could go with the later 911 style bar for half (or less) of that cost. I won't have to weld in the reenforcement plates and it may give me a little more room under the tank for a possible fuel pump relocation.

I have a 911 front end on my car and I was thinking of removing the sway bar and installing the upper style bar. With that said, I can't recommend the 911 bar but if you want to help off set my cost ... (IMG:style_emoticons/default/happy11.gif) I would have to figure out how to get it out and remove the "A" arm tabs. PM me if still interested.

[jcd914]

The brackets/bushing mounts for the under body bar attach to the support brackets going from the cross bean back to the body. You will have to drill and thread or add a nut so the bushing brackets can bolt on. These supports for the aluminum cross bar are separate pieces ad are a bit thicker and wider and predrilled and threaded.
The easy way would be to get a complete 911 set up minus the struts, you get the bar, brackets bushings, A-arms with mounts, T-bars, cross beam, under bell pan, etc.

Your ball joints will fit the 911 A-arms directly, so no need to change your struts.

That said I would find a stock 914 or early 911 thru body sway bar and pull the tank and install the aftermarket nut plats for a thru body bar and go that route. It is better set up, under body bars have bad geometry, no adjustment, they are made for a much heavier car, are difficult to detach/attach to the A-arm

Used stock bar set ups come up around $200 bucks and Use aftermarket adjustables are not much more. There is plenty of room to relocate the fuel pump later if you want, although most relocate the pump down by the steering rack & cross beam not under the tank (easier to get to).

Jim

[jimkelly]

dave - as usual - you make some good points here - jim

The tabs on the A arms for the under-body bar are quite different from those for the through-body bar. Or at least in a different location. So you'll either need to fab and weld on the 911-style tabs, or use 911 A arms. I believe you'll need to switch to 911 torsion bars if you go with 911 A arms--obviously with the 911 height adjuster as well.

I don't think you need the 911 crossmember, I think (not sure!) that the brackets for the under-body bar bolt up to the mounting holes for the crossmember, not to the crossmember itself.


Why are you changing over? The under-body style has worse geometry, is kind of a pain to install and remove, cannot be made adjustable, and requires a bunch of extra work as you can see.

--DD

[carr914]

I have the Whole Set-up (A Arms, Alum Crossmember, SwayBar) that I would sell ( I think I bought them bstone)

[Jgilliam914]

My72 had a under body sway bar when I purchased it. When I started AX a few years later the bar ripped the body mounts from the car and ripped the metal in a once clean trunk floor. The U tab stayed intact and it made a horrible noise till I was able to remove the bar. Since then I have " upgraded" the whole front suspension from a 85 Carrera. If you plan on spirited driving I would make sure you reinforce where the bar attaches to the body. Otherwise you may end up with a lot more metal work in the future

[falconfp2001]

I want to install a later style 911 sway bar on my '71 914. I am not going to 5 lug and I do not want to get into changing the struts on my '71 or swapping an entire 911 front suspension onto the car. I just want to use the later 911 under the body sway bar with the early 914 struts & non vented brakes.

I know I need the tabs for the A-arms. Can I use the 911 A-arms and keep my early struts? Will the early 914 balljoints work in the 911 A-arms? Do I need the aluminum cross member from the 911?

TIA

This is what I did.

I sourced the 911 a-arms, steel cross member and the under body sway bar as a complete unit purchased online. Don't remember where I got it but you can find a nice one on the Samba but it is a little pricy for me however, it comes with the Struts, hubs and rotors. I spent maybe 250.00 on mine.

I had to replace the ball joints during the install. They must match your struts. Took me a half day to install and then take to the shop to get it aligned. People say it won't be that much different but it is a lot flatter in the corners than before and you can feel the thicker torsion bars.

When they say not adjustable they actually mean not adjustable without removing the bar and replacing with a thicker one. It isn't that hard to do and I honestly don't know why they think it is difficult.

The through body is a lot more work to install and will not benefit you much unless you plan to race. Just my opinion but hey, a lot of people AX these cars.

[brant]

I want to install a later style 911 sway bar on my '71 914. I am not going to 5 lug and I do not want to get into changing the struts on my '71 or swapping an entire 911 front suspension onto the car. I just want to use the later 911 under the body sway bar with the early 914 struts & non vented brakes.

I know I need the tabs for the A-arms. Can I use the 911 A-arms and keep my early struts? Will the early 914 balljoints work in the 911 A-arms? Do I need the aluminum cross member from the 911?

TIA

This is what I did.

I sourced the 911 a-arms, steel cross member and the under body sway bar as a complete unit purchased online. Don't remember where I got it but you can find a nice one on the Samba but it is a little pricy for me however, it comes with the Struts, hubs and rotors. I spent maybe 250.00 on mine.

I had to replace the ball joints during the install. They must match your struts. Took me a half day to install and then take to the shop to get it aligned. People say it won't be that much different but it is a lot flatter in the corners than before and you can feel the thicker torsion bars.

When they say not adjustable they actually mean not adjustable without removing the bar and replacing with a thicker one. It isn't that hard to do and I honestly don't know why they think it is difficult.

The through body is a lot more work to install and will not benefit you much unless you plan to race. Just my opinion but hey, a lot of people AX these cars.

but... an adjustable through body bar can be adjusted stiffer or softer in about 3 minutes without even removing a wheel. It can be done as needed for different weather (rain), tracks, or desired driving characteristics. no bar removal necessary... just move the drop link up or down. We often change from day to day at the track, or at a miniumum from track to track.

[falconfp2001]

I want to install a later style 911 sway bar on my '71 914. I am not going to 5 lug and I do not want to get into changing the struts on my '71 or swapping an entire 911 front suspension onto the car. I just want to use the later 911 under the body sway bar with the early 914 struts & non vented brakes.

I know I need the tabs for the A-arms. Can I use the 911 A-arms and keep my early struts? Will the early 914 balljoints work in the 911 A-arms? Do I need the aluminum cross member from the 911?

TIA

This is what I did.

I sourced the 911 a-arms, steel cross member and the under body sway bar as a complete unit purchased online. Don't remember where I got it but you can find a nice one on the Samba but it is a little pricy for me however, it comes with the Struts, hubs and rotors. I spent maybe 250.00 on mine.

I had to replace the ball joints during the install. They must match your struts. Took me a half day to install and then take to the shop to get it aligned. People say it won't be that much different but it is a lot flatter in the corners than before and you can feel the thicker torsion bars.

When they say not adjustable they actually mean not adjustable without removing the bar and replacing with a thicker one. It isn't that hard to do and I honestly don't know why they think it is difficult.

The through body is a lot more work to install and will not benefit you much unless you plan to race. Just my opinion but hey, a lot of people AX these cars.

but... an adjustable through body bar can be adjusted stiffer or softer in about 3 minutes without even removing a wheel. It can be done as needed for different weather (rain), tracks, or desired driving characteristics. no bar removal necessary... just move the drop link up or down. We often change from day to day at the track, or at a miniumum from track to track.

As I said and has been attested by this poster, through body = track, under body = not track. Not my thing and just want a daily ride that is sporty without having to adjust anything. Under body sway bar is fine, easy and affordable. I did it and many have before me.

[SLITS]

In all the cars I've played with, I have never seen a stock bar setup that is adjustable. I know .... mute point.

The only time I've used an adjustable bar was on race cars to tailor the car to the track and driver style. For a street car, it is a waste of money (unless it's cheaper than the stock setups).

I've built a couple of cars with the under body style (complete SC front end) and would do it again in a heartbeat. They cornered flat ... real flat and driveabilty was excellent as far as I was concerned.

My current six has the stock thru body and I have considered putting an under body on it as I think the under body set up is better. The only drawback is that the rack/master cylinder cover pan doesn't fit.

[MDG]

I've built a couple of cars with the under body style (complete SC front end) and would do it again in a heartbeat. They cornered flat ... real flat and driveabilty was excellent as far as I was concerned.

My green car has that set-up and I agree 100%

[ChrisFoley]

The only drawback is that the rack/master cylinder cover pan doesn't fit.

And so that's better? (IMG:style_emoticons/default/screwy.gif)

I don't like the underbody 911 sway bars on a 914.
Not only is it non-adjustable for stiffness and for pre-load, it interferes with servicing the suspension and steering.

With the stiffer bar and the stiffer torsion bars in the 911 a-arms, the car will understeer like a pig unless you use at least 140lb rear springs.

Thru-body style is superior IMO.
Stock anti-sway bars are the bomb on a stock-ish street 914.

[Spoke]

I did the 911 A-arms, t-bars, aluminum crossmember, and underbody sway bar to my 4-lug 914.

Put new ball joints on, bolted it in, and drive. Pretty simple and much better handling.

Maybe not the ultimate setup, but damn good for the street driving I do.

I'm not sure how it interferes with servicing the suspension. I've had mine on for about 6 years now and haven't touched the suspension except to add 911 struts to 5-lug my 914.

[Eric_Shea]

I'd find a way to fix that through body set up. It's already there...

[Eric_Shea]

Stock anti-sway bars are the bomb on a stock-ish street 914.

(IMG:style_emoticons/default/agree.gif) 200%

[dfelz]

Soooo, I just noticed that one of the random items left in the trunk of my new project roller is an underbody front sway bar.... This is actually good news for me, for a few reasons. My new roller did not have a stock thru body bar installed, so i would need to do some drilling. Bigger problem though, the thru bar and accessories i have from my first roller are kind of messed up, well two components in particular, just the brackets that attach to the bar have very oval-ed "once square" holes (IMG:style_emoticons/default/headbang.gif) (Eric can surely attest to that since he platted them for me (IMG:style_emoticons/default/happy11.gif) )
I would like to run this under body bar because although i will eventually be racing my 914, that wont be for a few years, and im broke right now, so i dont want to put more money into the stock bar when i will want to replace it in a few years. so in the mean time, a solid, street, non-adjustable, under body bar, that many street people seem to like should be fine for me, and very low cost (brackets, bushings, and (IMG:style_emoticons/default/welder.gif), done)
My questions is, can i still use my stock 914 a-arms and stock torsion bars? i realize i will need to weld on the different mounting tabs, but thats not a problem at all. Also as stated above, will have to drill and tap two holes, also not a big deal at all.
Opinions?
Thanks

[Spoke]

My questions is, can i still use my stock 914 a-arms and stock torsion bars? i realize i will need to weld on the different mounting tabs, but thats not a problem at all. Also as stated above, will have to drill and tap two holes, also not a big deal at all.
Opinions?
Thanks

Yes.

[scotty b]

Just run both, then everyone will think you know something they don't (IMG:style_emoticons/default/rolleyes.gif)