Is it possible to drop a 1.7 using a 4 post lift? Options

[euro911]

This is a very interesting idea. I have a jack that sits between the rails. So, instead of a 4 x 4, I could drive the car onto the lift, and with the jack in the furthest rearward position, align the rear donuts to the jack, then raise the jack. Then raise the lift.

Then next question is, I know the weight on the lift should be evenly distributed, would doing it this way be enough weight distribution on the front of the lift to prevent it from tilting backwards? I would only raise the lift to the first lock, but I think the first lock is about 24" from the floor.

I'll try to get over to the shop tomorrow or Thursday and will snap some pix ...

[euro911]

Why do I have visions of Karl's Lotus Elise flashing in my mind right now??

(IMG:http://www.914world.com/bbs2/uploads_offsite/i8.photobucket.com-607-1360103094.1.jpg)

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I am not a fan of this plan. I think the car will fall off of the back of the ramp because most of the weight will be hanging off the rear.

I still don't get the logistics of the runways being so close. A picture would help a lot.

When you jack stand a 914 (with the complete drive train installed) under the front and rear donuts, have you ever seen one fall (IMG:style_emoticons/default/confused24.gif)

I'm surmising that the Elise was probably not positioned on the two-post lift correctly and when they removed some weight (front wheels), it upset the balance.

How many times have we had 914s up on the two-post lifts at shop class? ... and we've never had a mishap occur ... even when removing both front wheels and rotors to do a brake job.

If there's concern about weight distribution and upsetting the balance for the short duration the car would be in that position, the front wheels or A-arms can be secured to the runways with a good set of ratchet straps.

Is your lift bolted to the floor, Doug?

[doug_b_928]

Good point. I was also thinking about 911s: Is there some rule with them that when they're on jacks not to remove the wheels from the front?

A pic of your system in action would be terrific!

My lift isn't bolted, but I would do so if this will be my teener engine removal tool.

[KaptKaos]

How many times have we had 914s up on the two-post lifts at shop class? ... and we've never had a mishap occur ... even when removing both front wheels and rotors to do a brake job.

If there's concern about weight distribution and upsetting the balance for the short duration the car would be in that position, the front wheels or A-arms can be secured to the runways with a good set of ratchet straps.

Is your lift bolted to the floor, Doug?

Good point Mark. Assuming that the lift holds up the chassis level at all four donuts, then you are correct.

However, if the car is on the front wheels and there is a drop from the front to the rear because the rear is resting on a 4x4, then your idea to secure the front with some ratcheting tie downs would really help. Using a 4x4 has the car already resting at a downward angle.

Also, a bolted down lift would be good too.

[doug_b_928]

But what if, instead of a 2x4, the car was on a scissor jack in its rear-most position? Then it would be tilting the opposite direction. The added height might also help with clearing the crossmember that supports the two runways on the lift, which I'd imagine would still be in the way.

[gandalf_025]

I've pulled engines out of 911's and 914-6's
on my 4 post lift and it worked..

I just went out and measured the distance
between the lower lip on the rails. Came out
to 39" Not perfect, but it did work..

[euro911]

On a stock 914, the lowest point of the chassis should sit at approximately 4.5" ~ 5" inches above the ground.

If running lower profile tires this dimension could be less, so the rear donuts resting on a 4x4 timber wouldn't be subjecting the car to much of a rearward tilt.

[KaptKaos]

On a stock 914, the lowest point of the chassis should sit at approximately 4.5" ~ 5" inches above the ground.

If running lower profile tires this dimension could be less, so the rear donuts resting on a 4x4 timber wouldn't be subjecting the car to much of a rearward tilt.

agreed, but remember, you will need to chock or otherwise secure the front wheels, as there are no parking brakes, or gearing to stop the car from rolling backward. Assuming this things, then yes, this would work.

[doug_b_928]

So, then, if you had two scissor jacks such that the car was raised level and supported by all four donuts, you might have the height needed to clear the crossmember holding the runways/rails of the lift and also the car wouldn't move because it's not on wheels. I suppose it would also be prudent to remove the rear wheels to reduce the weight on the back. I'm still wondering how one would negotiate around the crossmember that supports the lift runways, which would still be in the vertical plane of the front of the engine and thereby would prevent a vertical drop onto a dolly, no? I'm curious to see pics of this being done.

[euro911]

Film at eleven ...

[euro911]

[KaptKaos]

very cool (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smilie_pokal.gif)

Jeremy doesn't weigh as much as an engine! Kidding. Looks great.

[doug_b_928]

Dude, awesome demonstration!!! From the pics it looks like the firewall is pretty much lined up with the lift in which case the engine could drop straight down onto a dolly, no?

[JmuRiz]

Fantastic! Guess I didn't need to get the wider lift afterall....

[euro911]

very cool (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smilie_pokal.gif)

Jeremy doesn't weigh as much as an engine! Kidding. Looks great.

Looks may be deceiving, I fed him well before that shot (IMG:style_emoticons/default/chowtime.gif)
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Someone PM'd me, suggesting that I shouldn't have posted those pix for liability reasons (IMG:style_emoticons/default/blink.gif)

Being that I've been pulling and installing air-cooled drive trains for over 40 years, I feel totally comfortable with this 'rigging'.

I will caution anyone that uses ANY method to think the process through and keep safety in mind at all times. Realize and solve any limitations you may have. If you're not sure, don't do it.

I also recommend that you have a knowledgeable and capable assistant helping with ANY process you choose to use.

[euro911]

Dude, awesome demonstration!!! From the pics it looks like the firewall is pretty much lined up with the lift in which case the engine could drop straight down onto a dolly, no?

Actually, the firewall sits a little forward of the crossbar on the lift.

When you are ready to 'drop' the drive train, place your floor jack or table (platform) to the highest point, then lower the lift down so the balance point of the drive train rests solidly on the platform.

Remove the mounting hardware, then lower the platform slightly while pulling the drive train rearward to clear any obstacles (including the lift crossbar), then lower the platform or raise the lift to pull the drive train the rest of the way out.

Again, have someone there to help balance the drive train, or while doing any heavy work like this.

[doug_b_928]

Having never pulled an engine, this method appears to me to be safer than crawling under and leaning on a car that is raised with two tall jack stands. Fourty years of experience with dropping air cooled engines is 40 more years than I have. Thank you so much for taking the time to take the pictures and post.

[Gint]

Yup, did it that way once myself. Pretty much exactly the same way. I also braced the front lift posts up to the ceiling joists. Worked ok, and I may end up doing that again. I'd still rather have a mid rise lift. Then I'd have both. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)

Doug,

My four post isn't wide enough to drop a motor without removing the tins. I don't bother with that either. I just do it the old fashioned way.

but we still did it once...
remember when we hung the back of the car off the lift at your old house and put a motor into that green 914?

I remember. I'm wondering how well it would work with a 911.

[euro911]

I'll let you know when I drop the drive train out of the '66 or the '67 ... whichever comes first.

[Andyrew]

I use a 2 post almost weekly... (not on the 914 weekly mind you)

The 914 is one of the more stable cars on a 2 post because its so short and wide...