I've been reading in anticipation of starting my restoration this year. I've seen posts where some have used a two post lift to remove their engines. I'm wondering if it's possible to remove the engine using a 4 post lift with 32" of clearance between the rails. My 914 is in storage a couple of hours away so I can't measure the width of the engine and tins etc. I'm guessing that 32" is not enough space, but am wondering if there is some (reasonably easy) way that it can be done.

Right of the top of my head I would say no with out measuring.

I know that with the alternator engine tin in place it is 36 inches.

Agree that the tin is 36 inches, best I can measure with a spare engine is about 30-32" intake runners on, injectors out. I've heard some say it is possible to remove the tin in the car, others say no.

Dropping it is easy though. I prefer to get the wheels on blocks about 8-10 high, remove the carbs or air box for FI, remove the rear valence, and with a floor jack lower the engine and roll it out the back.

There are other easy methods out there, search the World or also look at the Bird for their tech article.

Yes, it is possible to remove the thins. I don't think I would do it again, but doable.

Okay, ramps/stands it is. Thanks, guys.

Danmar D7000 (or D7) 4-post lift

Width Between Runways: 37-1/2" / 953 mm.

How wide are the runways if there is only 32" of clearance between them?

Doug,

My four post isn't wide enough to drop a motor without removing the tins. I don't bother with that either. I just do it the old fashioned way.

but we still did it once...
remember when we hung the back of the car off the lift at your old house and put a motor into that green 914?

I can drop my engine with my 4-post lift, but I got the wider BendPak HD-9 (knowing I'd need the extra width for when I did an engine drop) and I was JUUUUUST able to get the engine bar between the rails....tins, bar and all installed.

When I'm done putting my car back together I'll set the ramps close so it'll be easier to drive-on.

I have the Direct Lift PP8S. Dimensions are below. I didn't have room for anything bigger and it fits perfectly in my garage, but this is the first limitation I've come across. As you can see in the schematic below, it says 38" between the ramps, but the flanges that the jacks run on are 3" on the inside of each ramp, so only 32" of open space.

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Gotcha, I think that's like the narrow side of mine...mine can widen out to 44". Is there any room to move the ramp w/o the ram over?
If not, I guess it's on-to doing it the old way

I had a thread about this some time ago. I, too, had room to move the non-
hydraulics-holding rail farther out. But also I was able to turn it around to
move the lip to the outside, gaining about 3" that way. You may be able to
turn it and/or notch the lip on the other side without hurting anything.

I don't think my lift is width adjustable. Turning around the lift ramp is creative solution, but it's not practical for me to do that.

I'm guessing it's a lot easier to just use some old car ramps (I hope).

If you don't have the clearance between the runways, try this method:

Drive the front wheels onto the lift runways and remove the ramps.

Place an appropriate length 4x4 near the rear end, across the runways.

Drive or push the car forward enough to align the rear donuts above the 4x4.

Raise the lift. (The complete drive train will be hanging off the end of the lift).

If not already done, remove all necessary wiring, hoses, etc., then remove the exhaust system. You may want to remove the rear wheels, but it's not necessary.

Lower the lift and support the drive train with jack, or a hydraulic table, then unbolt all the mounts.

Raise the lift and pull the drive train out of the way.

This is a very interesting idea. I have a jack that sits between the rails. So, instead of a 4 x 4, I could drive the car onto the lift, and with the jack in the furthest rearward position, align the rear donuts to the jack, then raise the jack. Then raise the lift.

Then next question is, I know the weight on the lift should be evenly distributed, would doing it this way be enough weight distribution on the front of the lift to prevent it from tilting backwards? I would only raise the lift to the first lock, but I think the first lock is about 24" from the floor.

Why do I have visions of Karl's Lotus Elise flashing in my mind right now??





I am not a fan of this plan. I think the car will fall off of the back of the ramp because most of the weight will be hanging off the rear.

I still don't get the logistics of the runways being so close. A picture would help a lot.

If you had a nice pick point above the engine bay you could:

Remove engine bay lid
Position car up on lift - med/low
Hook engine to chain-fall through engine bay opening to ceiling & take slack. remove mount bolts.
Slowly raise the car using the lift.

All that really buys you is the ability to twist the engine to gain a few extra inches of clearance.
However it depends on where you could lift from on the top of the engine with the pick point(s)...

Once you get it past the lift rails raise the car up , set the engine down onto a dolly or straight to the stand.
I have wanted an overhead lift tab just for picking the engines up from the dolly to put them on the engine stand.

Stu

That picture of the Elise is frightening.

I just have a typical wooden structure in my garage. I would worry about putting the weight of an engine on it.

Back to the car ramps/jack stands....

I'll try to get over to the shop tomorrow or Thursday and will snap some pix ...

When you jack stand a 914 (with the complete drive train installed) under the front and rear donuts, have you ever seen one fall

I'm surmising that the Elise was probably not positioned on the two-post lift correctly and when they removed some weight (front wheels), it upset the balance.

How many times have we had 914s up on the two-post lifts at shop class? ... and we've never had a mishap occur ... even when removing both front wheels and rotors to do a brake job.

If there's concern about weight distribution and upsetting the balance for the short duration the car would be in that position, the front wheels or A-arms can be secured to the runways with a good set of ratchet straps.

Is your lift bolted to the floor, Doug?

Good point. I was also thinking about 911s: Is there some rule with them that when they're on jacks not to remove the wheels from the front?

A pic of your system in action would be terrific!

My lift isn't bolted, but I would do so if this will be my teener engine removal tool.

Good point Mark. Assuming that the lift holds up the chassis level at all four donuts, then you are correct.

However, if the car is on the front wheels and there is a drop from the front to the rear because the rear is resting on a 4x4, then your idea to secure the front with some ratcheting tie downs would really help. Using a 4x4 has the car already resting at a downward angle.

Also, a bolted down lift would be good too.

But what if, instead of a 2x4, the car was on a scissor jack in its rear-most position? Then it would be tilting the opposite direction. The added height might also help with clearing the crossmember that supports the two runways on the lift, which I'd imagine would still be in the way.

I've pulled engines out of 911's and 914-6's
on my 4 post lift and it worked..

I just went out and measured the distance
between the lower lip on the rails. Came out
to 39" Not perfect, but it did work..

On a stock 914, the lowest point of the chassis should sit at approximately 4.5" ~ 5" inches above the ground.

If running lower profile tires this dimension could be less, so the rear donuts resting on a 4x4 timber wouldn't be subjecting the car to much of a rearward tilt.

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agreed, but remember, you will need to chock or otherwise secure the front wheels, as there are no parking brakes, or gearing to stop the car from rolling backward. Assuming this things, then yes, this would work.

So, then, if you had two scissor jacks such that the car was raised level and supported by all four donuts, you might have the height needed to clear the crossmember holding the runways/rails of the lift and also the car wouldn't move because it's not on wheels. I suppose it would also be prudent to remove the rear wheels to reduce the weight on the back. I'm still wondering how one would negotiate around the crossmember that supports the lift runways, which would still be in the vertical plane of the front of the engine and thereby would prevent a vertical drop onto a dolly, no? I'm curious to see pics of this being done.

Film at eleven ...

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very cool

Jeremy doesn't weigh as much as an engine! Kidding. Looks great.

Dude, awesome demonstration!!! From the pics it looks like the firewall is pretty much lined up with the lift in which case the engine could drop straight down onto a dolly, no?

Fantastic! Guess I didn't need to get the wider lift afterall....

Looks may be deceiving, I fed him well before that shot


Someone PM'd me, suggesting that I shouldn't have posted those pix for liability reasons

Being that I've been pulling and installing air-cooled drive trains for over 40 years, I feel totally comfortable with this 'rigging'.

I will caution anyone that uses ANY method to think the process through and keep safety in mind at all times. Realize and solve any limitations you may have. If you're not sure, don't do it.

I also recommend that you have a knowledgeable and capable assistant helping with ANY process you choose to use.

Actually, the firewall sits a little forward of the crossbar on the lift.

When you are ready to 'drop' the drive train, place your floor jack or table (platform) to the highest point, then lower the lift down so the balance point of the drive train rests solidly on the platform.

Remove the mounting hardware, then lower the platform slightly while pulling the drive train rearward to clear any obstacles (including the lift crossbar), then lower the platform or raise the lift to pull the drive train the rest of the way out.

Again, have someone there to help balance the drive train, or while doing any heavy work like this.

Having never pulled an engine, this method appears to me to be safer than crawling under and leaning on a car that is raised with two tall jack stands. Fourty years of experience with dropping air cooled engines is 40 more years than I have. Thank you so much for taking the time to take the pictures and post.

Yup, did it that way once myself. Pretty much exactly the same way. I also braced the front lift posts up to the ceiling joists. Worked ok, and I may end up doing that again. I'd still rather have a mid rise lift. Then I'd have both.


I remember. I'm wondering how well it would work with a 911.

I'll let you know when I drop the drive train out of the '66 or the '67 ... whichever comes first.

I use a 2 post almost weekly... (not on the 914 weekly mind you)

The 914 is one of the more stable cars on a 2 post because its so short and wide...

I dropped mine out on my 4 post.


Had to take one carb off and some sheet metal, other that that it was no problem

What is the measurement of open space between the runways on your lift? How difficult was it to remove the requisite Tins in situ?