2013 Parade: Went over my Score Sheet, Some errors that I did not contest... Options

[orthobiz]

So, in trying to decipher the rules, there are "Classes" for "low mileage" vehicles. Mine has just under 25000 miles.

Classes: PS08T 1949 - 1976 356, 912, 911, 914 (all)

Then, there are six "Divisions," one of which is for the 914:

Divisions: PIV All 914 including Limited Production

It's like the animal kingdom phylum and class and genus and species, etc.

There are four Groups under which fall the Divisions followed by the Classes.

I am confused!

Paul

[1970 Neun vierzehn]

So, in trying to decipher the rules, there are "Classes" for "low mileage" vehicles. Mine has just under 25000 miles.

Classes: PS08T 1949 - 1976 356, 912, 911, 914 (all)

Then, there are six "Divisions," one of which is for the 914:

Divisions: PIV All 914 including Limited Production

It's like the animal kingdom phylum and class and genus and species, etc.

There are four Groups under which fall the Divisions followed by the Classes.

I am confused!

Paul

I too would be confused, baffled and bewildered by the various and sundry classes, divisions, and groups that the rules attempt to catagorize. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/confused24.gif) Me thinks that the folks who write the federal tax laws are somehow involved here (IMG:style_emoticons/default/blink.gif) Good luck, Paul.

Paul

[orthobiz]

Safe in the bubble, I deflated it and uncovered it today. Still too much snow and wet outside to drive it home.

(IMG:http://www.914world.com/bbs2/uploads_offsite/farm9.staticflickr.com-7438-1365983677.1.jpg)

The bag is deflated...

(IMG:http://www.914world.com/bbs2/uploads_offsite/farm9.staticflickr.com-7438-1365983734.1.jpg)

Paul

[orthobiz]

The Certificate of Authenticity makes no mention of a radio, which I believe is common as many were dealer installed. Whoever installed my radio used a non-original antenna. And then they tightened it too much. So under the wide cup against the fender is a small non-progressive crack in the paint. A standard (Hirschmann) lets you see the crack so I've left this antenna on.

(IMG:http://www.914world.com/bbs2/uploads_offsite/farm9.staticflickr.com-7438-1365984040.1.jpg)

But a bigger issue is the radio. It is an awful, awful Kenwood removable face monstrosity.

(IMG:http://www.914world.com/bbs2/uploads_offsite/farm9.staticflickr.com-7438-1365984040.2.jpg)

I have an original style radio that I could install but it only has one wire coming out of the back...

How about a radio delete filler for the dash and hope no one notices the speakers or antenna? (just kidding)

I will post the radio later...

Paul

Actually my radio thread is here:

http://www.914world.com/bbs2/index.php?showtopic=109964

[Pat Garvey]

The Certificate of Authenticity makes no mention of a radio, which I believe is common as many were dealer installed. Whoever installed my radio used a non-original antenna. And then they tightened it too much. So under the wide cup against the fender is a small non-progressive crack in the paint. A standard (Hirschmann) lets you see the crack so I've left this antenna on.

(IMG:http://www.914world.com/bbs2/uploads_offsite/farm9.staticflickr.com-7438-1365984040.1.jpg)

But a bigger issue is the radio. It is an awful, awful Kenwood removable face monstrosity.

(IMG:http://www.914world.com/bbs2/uploads_offsite/farm9.staticflickr.com-7438-1365984040.2.jpg)

I have an original style radio that I could install but it only has one wire coming out of the back...

How about a radio delete filler for the dash and hope no one notices the speakers or antenna? (just kidding)

I will post the radio later...

Paul

Actually my radio thread is here:

http://www.914world.com/bbs2/index.php?showtopic=109964

Paul,
I bought my late 72 with no radio from the factory, yet it had the speaker grills (no speakers) in place. Bought speakers & a Blaupinkt Frankfurt from Crutchfield. You probably know that I never drilled for an antenna, but it worked fine with a windshield antenna.
Point is, I would give more work into cleaning/detailing other areas. Radios from the era could be anything - forget it as long as it is "period correct". These cars were a constantly changing beast until late 74.
Have you addresed the interior edges of your front door jambs? Make certatain that there is no wax residue - that's why Q-tips were invented I think.

[orthobiz]

So I brought my car into the local guru of paint to have my car professionally buffed and waxed. I bought a PorterCable orbital about four years ago and did it myself but still had some tiny starburst looking random scratchy spidery lines in the paint.

I would like to say that my car is beautiful and does not in any way need a new paint job, at least in my eyes. And unless you are looking closely at 6" or less, you really do not see flawed paint. BUT I was hoping some of the swirly marks would disappear.

Anyway, my guy is upset because he buffed the back trunk and was not able to improve the appearance. He was afraid he'd go through the paint!

1. I'm not gonna get out the orbital but I am interested in the latest and greatest product for our cars with original paint. Is there some special nanotechnology shine substance I can use before the Parade?

2. He said the paint back in the day was "thin." Is this true? I remember in 1974 I hand buffed through the paint on my 1971 Signal Orange car...

3. He also said the car did not have enamel paint. I always thought it was enamel?

Thanks,

Paul

PS I will get rid of all the wax, Pat!!!

[JeffBowlsby]

The literature says it is enamel, it looks like enamel, and is single stage (no clear coat). Its also likely to be thin after 40 years. The paint detailing gurus have a special gun that will tell them the mil thickness of paint, you need to find someone like that. Paint thins over time by oxidization and wear and you may not have much thickness to buff out. Have it checked to be sure.

[orthobiz]

Thanks Jeff. He used his photo spectrometer thingy to match some touchup paint for me, so I know he has equipment. Never thought to ask about how thick my paint is.

A buddy of mine has mentioned Swissvax, some incredibly expensive stuff for paint care. Back in the day, Zymol was the best. But I'm still wondering about some of the newer compounds that might "fill in" or make imperfections less noticeable.

Maybe just clay followed by wax?

That Porsche ad is great, by the way. Especially the zinc part. Zinc my eye, these cars are famous for rust!!!

Paul

[JeffBowlsby]

I don't think its a spectrometer, its a digital paint film thickness gauge.

That 'ad' above is the backside of the 914 car colors brochure.

You might look into 'glaze' products in the car care section, I understand this product is used to fill in minor scratches, then wax over that. Meguiars website has some helpful paint care processes/products - I bet the other major mfrs' do too.

[orthobiz]

He used the spectrometer to mix up some touchup paint. I need to ask him if he measured the paint thickness.

Any ideas on best wax products? I think Zymol has one for red cars??
I think I should just go ahead and clay the paint followed by a wax.

Paul

[Pat Garvey]

I don't think its a spectrometer, its a digital paint film thickness gauge.

That 'ad' above is the backside of the 914 car colors brochure.

You might look into 'glaze' products in the car care section, I understand this product is used to fill in minor scratches, then wax over that. Meguiars website has some helpful paint care processes/products - I bet the other major mfrs' do too.

Agreed! A spectrometer, or spectrophotometer, will diagnose spectral items, such as color, intensity and, in some cases degrees of spectral colorants (yeah, I know, it's heady). They CAN be used to match, or closely match, paint. But that's it. For a basic view of what a spectrophotometer analyses look at the artwork for Pink Floyd's "Dark Side of the Moon".

I worked with these things for 15 years YEARS ago, to determine if FDA food colors matched specs. That's pretty much all they did.

I'd be interested in hearing about new finish produsts too. Have been a Meguiars fan for many years (Zymol was too much work), but there must be better products these days.

[tod914]

You have to be real careful with buffing. I wouldn't advise it, even though the new buffers and pads are much more forgiving than the ones from days of old. Last two 914's I've had, also had some of those minute scratches your talking about. Paint sealants will hide them well. Similar to a wax, but you won't get the same depth.
On the Ravenna green car, I clay barred it with the Uber blue bar and Mother's detail spray. The clay barring works great. Just keep the area real wet so it doesn't leave a residue. Gets out all of the dirt trapped inside the scratches. That dirt is what makes them stand out like an eye sore. Then use a good paint cleaner. I went with PS21 paint cleaner along with Mequires scratch remover; a 50/50 dab of each using an Uber micro fiber pad. The combo really makes the paint pop.
http://www.detailersdomain.com/Uber-Microf...-Pad_p_647.html
Then followed by 1Z polish on the Uber pad, followed by PS21 wax. When I was done, the scratches were almost undetectable. You really had to catch the right light to see them. The minute ones went away. The Uber No Name super plush micro fiber towels were used to wipe/buff off the products. The key I found, was work in a small area at a time, and not to let any of the products dry on the paint. Wipe off right away. Typically worked in a 10"x10" area at a time. Also the best results I got from the wax, was applying it by hand on my hand. Emulsifing it, then rubbing it into the paint. If the wax wasn't heated by friction, it would streak. End results were amazing. Maybe go that route before doing anything too aggressive; like a buffer.
Each panel took me a week, but I also had to take 10+ years of film off it. Give it a try and I bet you'll be quite happy with the results.

[orthobiz]

Wow! Thanks Tod! Just the kind of info I'm looking for. Will report back...

BTW, you're right, the buffer is out. I dropped my car off last week to our local painting guru, someone who has worked on high end cars. He tried to buff just the one panel and said NO WAY.

But isn't the Meguiar's scratch remover an abrasive, and using it would be similar to buffing?
And what exactly is a paint cleaner? A non-abrasive chemical dissolver or something?

Appreciate everyone's help.

Paul

[tod914]

Paul they are abrasives, but by hand you can control the pressure easier. They will, if rubbed too hard, remove paint. You would have to work at it a bit to see the paint come up. These are no where near what a compound would be. Maybe test in the trunk area first, so you can see what results they yield. If you want to be more cautious, you can use one of the foam applicator pads by hand instead of the microfiber pad. I found with the foam pads, you just seem to be pushing product around without really accomplishing much. The foam pads are good for the 1Z wax and vinyl products though. Here's links for some of the products;

http://www.p21s.com/products/bis_pc.html ps21 paintwork cleanser + the mequires scratch remover (the Mequires you can get any where)

http://www.p21s.com/products/bis_ps.html I used this to clean up the chrome on the bumper, followed by a coat of ps21 wax. My bumpers had stubborn grime on them, even after washing. This soap worked extremely well. Will even clean up minor rust pitting. Doubt you need it for your car.

The PS21 body shampoo is also a good product, once your car is waxed. I ended up using Palmolive dish soap to try to cut through the grime. The dish soap will remove the old wax, where the body shampoo won't.

http://www.detailersdomain.com/ carries most of the products. I believe autogeek might have more of these that I mentioned here. Never used them, but they seem to have a much larger selection of products.

http://www.detailersdomain.com/1Z-einszett...litur_p_73.html The polish I used after the PS21 paint cleanser

http://www.detailersdomain.com/1Z-einszett...z-Wax_p_72.html
initial coat of wax on whole car, including trunks, jams, etc. This wax lasts longer, but doesn't have as much depth as the PS21 carnuba wax

http://www.p21s.com/products/bis_cw.html PS21 wax used on the exterior panels on top of the 1z. Your likely removing more of the base wax by adding on another layer of wax. So probably not necessary to use the 1Z wax on the exterior. I like the results of it in the trunks though.

http://www.detailersdomain.com/1Z-einszett...aner_p_106.html was one of the products used to clean the vinyl. Followed up with
http://www.detailersdomain.com/1Z-einszett...tant_p_211.html vinyl and rubber care.

I was real happy with the 1Z products. A lot of guys swear by the 303 aerospace protectant. I haven't tried it, so I can't really comment on it.

Here's the clay bar. http://www.detailersdomain.com/Uber-Blue-Clay-Bar_p_164.html Any on the shelf detail spray will work well with it. Word of caution don't use the Mequires clay kit. It's too sticky. Will leave a residue. The Mother's kit I tried, worked almost as well as the Uber clay bar. The Uber I found glided easier on the paint surface. The paint surface will be a little streaking once your done claying, but that will all come clean once you start with the ps21 paint cleaner. Before you clay, run your hand across the paint surface. You'll get a lot of resistance. Try it after. You'll be amazed how smooth it becomes.

Tires and bumper tops I used the Griots rubber prep http://www.griotsgarage.com/product/rubber...sortby=ourPicks
This does a great job of removing the brown stains on the tire rubber.
I've been using their vinyl and rubber dressing, but not completely satisfied with it. You have to use a very small amount and kind of buff it in so it doesn't leave an uneven finish. It's nice if applied correctly, but sounds like the 303 would be the better choice from what I hear.

I would strongly suggest not to use the PS21 Total Auto Wash. It can leave an orange stain. Figured I'd let you know just in case your tempted to try it. All of the other PS21 products I used, worked great.

Too many products to choose from these days. I'm sure anyone of the guys in this forum can give you a different product list , and achieve comparable end results.

Hope that helps. Looks like your off to a great start.

[Pat Garvey]

Paul they are abrasives, but by hand you can control the pressure easier. They will, if rubbed too hard, remove paint. You would have to work at it a bit to see the paint come up. These are no where near what a compound would be. Maybe test in the trunk area first, so you can see what results they yield. If you want to be more cautious, you can use one of the foam applicator pads by hand instead of the microfiber pad. I found with the foam pads, you just seem to be pushing product around without really accomplishing much. The foam pads are good for the 1Z wax and vinyl products though. Here's links for some of the products;

http://www.p21s.com/products/bis_pc.html ps21 paintwork cleanser + the mequires scratch remover (the Mequires you can get any where)

http://www.p21s.com/products/bis_ps.html I used this to clean up the chrome on the bumper, followed by a coat of ps21 wax. My bumpers had stubborn grime on them, even after washing. This soap worked extremely well. Will even clean up minor rust pitting. Doubt you need it for your car.

The PS21 body shampoo is also a good product, once your car is waxed. I ended up using Palmolive dish soap to try to cut through the grime. The dish soap will remove the old wax, where the body shampoo won't.

http://www.detailersdomain.com/ carries most of the products. I believe autogeek might have more of these that I mentioned here. Never used them, but they seem to have a much larger selection of products.

http://www.detailersdomain.com/1Z-einszett...litur_p_73.html The polish I used after the PS21 paint cleanser

http://www.detailersdomain.com/1Z-einszett...z-Wax_p_72.html
initial coat of wax on whole car, including trunks, jams, etc. This wax lasts longer, but doesn't have as much depth as the PS21 carnuba wax

http://www.p21s.com/products/bis_cw.html PS21 wax used on the exterior panels on top of the 1z. Your likely removing more of the base wax by adding on another layer of wax. So probably not necessary to use the 1Z wax on the exterior. I like the results of it in the trunks though.

http://www.detailersdomain.com/1Z-einszett...aner_p_106.html was one of the products used to clean the vinyl. Followed up with
http://www.detailersdomain.com/1Z-einszett...tant_p_211.html vinyl and rubber care.

I was real happy with the 1Z products. A lot of guys swear by the 303 aerospace protectant. I haven't tried it, so I can't really comment on it.

Here's the clay bar. http://www.detailersdomain.com/Uber-Blue-Clay-Bar_p_164.html Any on the shelf detail spray will work well with it. Word of caution don't use the Mequires clay kit. It's too sticky. Will leave a residue. The Mother's kit I tried, worked almost as well as the Uber clay bar. The Uber I found glided easier on the paint surface. The paint surface will be a little streaking once your done claying, but that will all come clean once you start with the ps21 paint cleaner. Before you clay, run your hand across the paint surface. You'll get a lot of resistance. Try it after. You'll be amazed how smooth it becomes.

Tires and bumper tops I used the Griots rubber prep http://www.griotsgarage.com/product/rubber...sortby=ourPicks
This does a great job of removing the brown stains on the tire rubber.
I've been using their vinyl and rubber dressing, but not completely satisfied with it. You have to use a very small amount and kind of buff it in so it doesn't leave an uneven finish. It's nice if applied correctly, but sounds like the 303 would be the better choice from what I hear.

I would strongly suggest not to use the PS21 Total Auto Wash. It can leave an orange stain. Figured I'd let you know just in case your tempted to try it. All of the other PS21 products I used, worked great.

Too many products to choose from these days. I'm sure anyone of the guys in this forum can give you a different product list , and achieve comparable end results.

Hope that helps. Looks like your off to a great start.

Good experiences Tod!

[orthobiz]

I spoke with John Paterek yesterday. When I lived in NYC, he used to work on my black 914 (which now resides with Riley in Fargo, ND, but that's another story).

He said P21s paint cleaner with a dab of Blue Magic in the middle. Personally he doesn't like clay. Followed by P21s Concours Wax.

I will keep us posted!

Paul

[tod914]

Not to dispute John, but that Blue magic and PS21 is going to remove paint. You'll end up with a red pad or buffing cloth by the time your done. That would be ok for trying to bring back heavily oxidized paint. Blue magic is an abrasive metal polish. If your going to use that, make you test it out before trying it on an outside panel. Just a friendly warning.

[Pat Garvey]

Not to dispute John, but that Blue magic and PS21 is going to remove paint. You'll end up with a red pad or buffing cloth by the time your done. That would be ok for trying to bring back heavily oxidized paint. Blue magic is an abrasive metal polish. If your going to use that, make you test it out before trying it on an outside panel. Just a friendly warning.

Sort of surprised that Paterak would suggest such a thing. How can that be less abrasive than a clay bar, which is easily controlled with fluids? I'm going to clay my 72 for the first time this spring. Used the bars on 3 car now with very acceptable results. Used the bars on alloy whells with gorgeous results, followed bt Zymol.

[tod914]

Pat, I've been to quite a few of John's workshops over the years. He's a big advocate of that combo. Apparently he's had great results using it. I tried it on two cars. The light ivory 914 and the Bahia red 914. To me, it was way too aggressive to use on good paint. Just a little too much pressure, and you'll be burning through it. Even with the smallest dab of the Blue Magic, for me, it worked like a compound. You have be very carefull using it, and make sure you have proper lighting so you can see what exactly what it's doing. Quite good on bringing oxidized paint back to life. He's demonstrated that at his workshops. In that case, you really don't have too much to loose.
The Mequires and PS21, is a much safer route to go. All the gloss that was brought back to life on the Ravenna 914's paint, was because of that combo. Seems to add a real luster to the paint. The carnuba wax was just the icing on the cake so to speak. That gave the paint it's depth.
Regarding the clay, I'm a total fan of it. It really prepares the surface well. Certainly no harm in using it on a factory finish. Great detailing tool to get into all the nooks and crannies in the engine bay. Lifts up all the dirt you can't quite get with your q-tips.

[Jasfsmith]

Not to dispute John, but that Blue magic and PS21 is going to remove paint. You'll end up with a red pad or buffing cloth by the time your done. That would be ok for trying to bring back heavily oxidized paint. Blue magic is an abrasive metal polish. If your going to use that, make you test it out before trying it on an outside panel. Just a friendly warning.

Sort of surprised that Paterak would suggest such a thing. How can that be less abrasive than a clay bar, which is easily controlled with fluids? I'm going to clay my 72 for the first time this spring. Used the bars on 3 car now with very acceptable results. Used the bars on alloy whells with gorgeous results, followed bt Zymol.

I've used Paterak's combination for years. Yes it can remove minute surface paint if you grind it in. I've also used clay bars. Only concern I have with the clay is the retention of the particles it removes. They remain on the clay bar as you rub the clay over the paint surface. Liberal amounts of wet agent is a definite must.

Amount of Blue Magic is about the size of small pea to a couple of caps of the PS21 cleaning cream. It works great for the super fine scratches.