 Autox camshaft |
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| r_towle |
 Jun 3 2013, 11:21 AM
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#1
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Custom Member  Group: Members Posts: 24,574 Joined: 9-January 03 From: Taxachusetts Member No.: 124 Region Association: North East States 
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So,
A preface. I do this for fun...if I happen to get a 5 dollar trophy...yippee. This will be a toy that I co-drive with my kids. So, the only competition will be my slow ass kids (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif) Till they demostrate how slow my reflexes have become. Its time to push the car up to a trailered car for a while. Flares are on, motor is built and running on carbs. I know I left power on the table with the camshaft... So, I want to swap it out... I dont think Type4 will sell me anything (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif) so please dont point at that solution. I would rather learn a bit here, and make up my own mind.. Elgin and Webcam make several grinds that would work... Again, this is for fun, so close enough will do. Dont need to get into a pissing contest about it. For a car that may spend the next five years on a trailer...but occasionally driven on the street...at least till I get bored and build another motor (or go six finally) What camshaft would you suggest. Heads are 46/38 Ported, polished and setup on a flow bench. Not looking for a camshaft that requires me to keep the revs above 5k just to move the car... Something modest, yet way better than stock. I have mastered Djet and Ljet...so I am bored with them and I know the limitations. This is a new path for me to push carbs, but I want a rational setup. Rich |
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| nolift914 |
Jun 3 2013, 02:40 PM
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#2
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Autoxer Group: Members Posts: 183 Joined: 24-May 09 From: Rockaway Beach NY Member No.: 10,399 Region Association: None |
QUOTE(r_towle @ Jun 3 2013, 09:21 AM)  So, A preface. I do this for fun...if I happen to get a 5 dollar trophy...yippee. This will be a toy that I co-drive with my kids. So, the only competition will be my slow ass kids (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif) Till they demostrate how slow my reflexes have become. Its time to push the car up to a trailered car for a while. Flares are on, motor is built and running on carbs. I know I left power on the table with the camshaft... So, I want to swap it out... I dont think Type4 will sell me anything (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif) so please dont point at that solution. I would rather learn a bit here, and make up my own mind.. Elgin and Webcam make several grinds that would work... Again, this is for fun, so close enough will do. Dont need to get into a pissing contest about it. For a car that may spend the next five years on a trailer...but occasionally driven on the street...at least till I get bored and build another motor (or go six finally) What camshaft would you suggest. Heads are 46/38 Ported, polished and setup on a flow bench. Not looking for a camshaft that requires me to keep the revs above 5k just to move the car... Something modest, yet way better than stock. I have mastered Djet and Ljet...so I am bored with them and I know the limitations. This is a new path for me to push carbs, but I want a rational setup. Rich I don't have much info for you but my new 914 has a web 86c cam in it with 44/38 valves haven't driven it yet may have more info in the future. WEB cam website states its the most aggressive while still street able. Fat Performance may be worth a call on the matter. |
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| Woody |
Jun 3 2013, 03:49 PM
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#3
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Sandbox Rabblerouser and head toilet scrubber Group: Members Posts: 3,858 Joined: 28-December 10 From: San Antonio Texas Member No.: 12,530 Region Association: Southwest Region |
I'm running an 86a if I remember correctly. I think its a great cam. Sounds like you have a bit more headwork than I do. I would say that the car is certainly drivable around town but really wakes up past 3500. With the 44 empi carbs it wants to pull to 7k. |
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| koozy |
Jun 3 2013, 04:42 PM
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#4
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Senior Member Group: Members Posts: 648 Joined: 21-July 07 Member No.: 7,931 Region Association: None |
I tried all kinds of stuff and at one point I decided to stop wasting money and do the -6 conversion. You will be glad ya did. In the -4 the cam change will do very little to the bottom line. It will just change the bandwidth at which point your power comes on. I don't know anyone who went with the -6 that said "heck, I shoulda just stuck with the -4". It is intoxicating and costs less than you think once you get started.
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| r_towle |
Jun 3 2013, 04:58 PM
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#5
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Custom Member Group: Members Posts: 24,574 Joined: 9-January 03 From: Taxachusetts Member No.: 124 Region Association: North East States
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QUOTE(koozy @ Jun 3 2013, 06:42 PM) I tried all kinds of stuff and at one point I decided to stop wasting money and do the -6 conversion. You will be glad ya did. In the -4 the cam change will do very little to the bottom line. It will just change the bandwidth at which point your power comes on. I don't know anyone who went with the -6 that said "heck, I shoulda just stuck with the -4". It is intoxicating and costs less than you think once you get started. I have a 911, so I get it. But, I love the type 4 motor. Rich |
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| koozy |
Jun 3 2013, 05:57 PM
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#6
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Senior Member Group: Members Posts: 648 Joined: 21-July 07 Member No.: 7,931 Region Association: None |
Ah, I misunderstood the boredom you mentioned earlier. I thought it was the platform that had you searching for more but now I realize it is just the induction you were speaking of. Though the 911 is entirely different experience... a peaky, carbed, type 4 can be a kick in the pants. All the best in your search for the right cam.
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| ChrisFoley |
Jun 3 2013, 07:28 PM
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#7
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I am Tangerine Racing Group: Members Posts: 7,922 Joined: 29-January 03 From: Bolton, CT Member No.: 209 Region Association: None
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QUOTE(Woody @ Jun 3 2013, 04:49 PM) I'm running an 86a if I remember correctly. I think its a great cam. Sounds like you have a bit more headwork than I do. I would say that the car is certainly drivable around town but really wakes up past 3500. With the 44 empi carbs it wants to pull to 7k. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/agree.gif) 86a is a great cam. I got 124 whp (Dynojet) out of 1832 cc using stock dia valves and 40IDFs. The hp curve was above 120hp from 5400-6600 rpm. Very driveable but really comes alive above 3500 rpm as Woody says. |
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| SirAndy |
Jun 3 2013, 08:25 PM
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#8
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Resident German Group: Admin Posts: 41,623 Joined: 21-January 03 From: Oakland, Kalifornia Member No.: 179 Region Association: Northern California |
Stay away from anything that makes peak HP and peak torque at high rpm.
You'll have a hard time maintaining that sort of rpm on an AX course. What you want is as much torque as possible at as low rpms as possible. The earlier it "really wakes up", the better ... (IMG:style_emoticons/default/popcorn[1].gif) |
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| yeahmag |
Jun 3 2013, 09:16 PM
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#9
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Advanced Member Group: Members Posts: 2,421 Joined: 18-April 05 From: Pasadena, CA Member No.: 3,946 Region Association: Southern California
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I just switched from a 494 to an 86a and love it. I haven't raced in this configuration yet, but ran the 494 for several years and won my class. The 86a in a 2056, 2L heads, 9.5:1 CR, and 4-1 headers is a rock star so far.
It will be on the track and at PCA OCR autocrosses again in July. |
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| r_towle |
Jun 3 2013, 09:25 PM
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#10
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Custom Member Group: Members Posts: 24,574 Joined: 9-January 03 From: Taxachusetts Member No.: 124 Region Association: North East States
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163/86b looks very promising.
Rich |
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| brant |
Jun 3 2013, 11:02 PM
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#11
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914 Wizard Group: Members Posts: 11,620 Joined: 30-December 02 From: Colorado Member No.: 47 Region Association: Rocky Mountains 
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the 4's have so much torque by design....
you can go pretty wild on the cam I know a racer (best 914 driver I've ever met) that prefers the -4 over a 6 until about the 3.0 level... his times prove it his 2.2/4 (205hp) can out run all the -6's even up to above 250 - 300hp the handling without the extra 150lbs makes the -4 better in the corners... |
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| J P Stein |
Jun 3 2013, 11:29 PM
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#12
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Irrelevant old fart Group: Members Posts: 8,797 Joined: 30-December 02 From: Vancouver, WA Member No.: 45 Region Association: None |
QUOTE(brant @ Jun 3 2013, 10:02 PM) I know a racer (best 914 driver I've ever met) that prefers the -4 over a 6 until about the 3.0 level... his times prove it his 2.2/4 (205hp) can out run all the -6's even up to above 250 - 300hp the handling without the extra 150lbs makes the -4 better in the corners... (IMG:style_emoticons/default/bs.gif) You need to get out more. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/biggrin.gif) |
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| koozy |
Jun 3 2013, 11:34 PM
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#13
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Senior Member Group: Members Posts: 648 Joined: 21-July 07 Member No.: 7,931 Region Association: None |
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| brant |
Jun 4 2013, 12:07 PM
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#14
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914 Wizard Group: Members Posts: 11,620 Joined: 30-December 02 From: Colorado Member No.: 47 Region Association: Rocky Mountains
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QUOTE(J P Stein @ Jun 3 2013, 11:29 PM) QUOTE(brant @ Jun 3 2013, 10:02 PM) I know a racer (best 914 driver I've ever met) that prefers the -4 over a 6 until about the 3.0 level... his times prove it his 2.2/4 (205hp) can out run all the -6's even up to above 250 - 300hp the handling without the extra 150lbs makes the -4 better in the corners... (IMG:style_emoticons/default/bs.gif) You need to get out more. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/biggrin.gif) the stop watch doesn't lie |
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| r_towle |
Jun 4 2013, 12:58 PM
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#15
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Custom Member Group: Members Posts: 24,574 Joined: 9-January 03 From: Taxachusetts Member No.: 124 Region Association: North East States
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its not a 4 versus 6 discussion, I like the 4 for this car and at this time.
If and when my sons get better, we may upgrade. Or, I can just tool around in this.. |
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| J P Stein |
Jun 6 2013, 06:24 PM
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#16
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Irrelevant old fart Group: Members Posts: 8,797 Joined: 30-December 02 From: Vancouver, WA Member No.: 45 Region Association: None |
QUOTE(brant @ Jun 4 2013, 11:07 AM) QUOTE(J P Stein @ Jun 3 2013, 11:29 PM) QUOTE(brant @ Jun 3 2013, 10:02 PM) I know a racer (best 914 driver I've ever met) that prefers the -4 over a 6 until about the 3.0 level... his times prove it his 2.2/4 (205hp) can out run all the -6's even up to above 250 - 300hp the handling without the extra 150lbs makes the -4 better in the corners... (IMG:style_emoticons/default/bs.gif) You need to get out more. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/biggrin.gif) the stop watch doesn't lie No it don't......but it does depend on who/what you're timing. Never seen/heard of a 4 pooper in the big dog classes of SCCA National Tour events where we used to run in the last 5-6 years or so .....those calsses would be E Mod, F Prepared, & X Prepared. There is a clue there.....one other 914 was at one or 2 of these...but it was a 6 and a multi time Parade AX winner who was ......ah....not sucessful. And yes, I've looked at all the SCCA NT and National Champion results for the last 5-6 years.....it's a dirty job for a 914 guy, but somebody's gotta do it. Randal has the quickest 4 pooper I've seen (and driven).......I think he has as much money in the motor as I had in my whole freakin' car....but I've been wrong before. |
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| Joe Ricard |
Jun 10 2013, 03:49 PM
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#17
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CUMONIWANNARACEU Group: Members Posts: 6,811 Joined: 5-January 03 From: Gautier, MS Member No.: 92 |
When I had the hopped up 2.0l I ran with a 86b +5 and fairly successful in the small local pond.
40IDF, ported heads and Tangerine exhaust. |
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| Trekkor |
Jun 10 2013, 04:31 PM
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#18
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I do things... Group: Members Posts: 7,809 Joined: 2-December 03 From: Napa, Ca Member No.: 1,413 Region Association: Northern California |
How can I get a -4 to run up to 6500-7000rpm's safely?
I might have a type four powered car again... KT |
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| Randal |
Jun 10 2013, 05:57 PM
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#19
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Advanced Member Group: Members Posts: 4,446 Joined: 29-May 03 From: Los Altos, CA Member No.: 750 |
QUOTE(Trekkor @ Jun 10 2013, 03:31 PM) How can I get a -4 to run up to 6500-7000rpm's safely? I might have a type four powered car again... KT It's important to build the engine right by blueprinting the case, properly line boring it, balance the crank, balance the rods/pistons and anything else that moves, get the right cam/piston/head solution and the motor will live at 6500 (for long long time) but running over 7K just reduces the life. I also like motors with lots of torque as you don't have to twist them as much, but guess it all depends if what venues you plan on running. Also talk to Bill C. as he built a great 2.4., that really hauls the mail. Isn't Mark still building motors right by you! |
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| koozy |
Jun 10 2013, 08:50 PM
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#20
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Senior Member Group: Members Posts: 648 Joined: 21-July 07 Member No.: 7,931 Region Association: None |
QUOTE(Trekkor @ Jun 10 2013, 03:31 PM) How can I get a -4 to run up to 6500-7000rpm's safely? I might have a type four powered car again... KT In 746 or another car? |
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