75 LJet will not fire, PHASE 2: still not starting...Phase 3: not idling, PHASE 4: fine tune! Options

[malcolm2]

My 1st post of the same subject

Summary: rescued 75 with L-jet: HAM repaired heads, 9550 cam from Type 4 store, All engine harnesses from Bowlsby, 96mm pistons from type 4 store (1911cc), Injectors cleaned by Cruzin Performance...(twice), engine sat for 12 mths while I worked on rust from sitting for 10 years, etc...

A couple weekends ago I went thru EXTENSIVE troubleshooting with Timothy_ND29 (huge thank you (IMG:style_emoticons/default/beerchug.gif) ), but the engine would not fire. That is the above link....

We ended up determining that my fresh injectors were clogged cause they sat for 12+ months. CruzinPerformance "woke them up" last week and they arrived back here today. I don't know what else to test: EVERYTHING operates, EVERYTHING:

1. 35+ psi fuel pressure
2. Starter turns engine with the key.
3. Noid lights at all injectors LIGHT
4. Spark plugs at all plugs SPARK
5. Injectors squirt (tested 1 and 2)
6. Valves actually move (I had to know it the damn thing was moving on the inside)

Here is the big one: After installing the fresh injectors, I did hear a slight fire, or poot of a backfire. Then nothing. I took the air box off and sprayed starting fluid in the intake while trying to start and STILL NOTHING. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/hissyfit.gif)

Question 1: How much spark do I need?
Question 2: How much squirt do I need?

Both happened, but they seemed weak, or small.

Need more help, I feel like the doctor that left a sponge in his patient.... (IMG:style_emoticons/default/confused24.gif)

[jim_hoyland]

Is the brown wire from the dual relay grounded ?

[timothy_nd28]

Sounds like the FI is doing its job. However the timing might be the issue now

[malcolm2]

Sounds like the FI is doing its job. However the timing might be the issue now

I forgot to mention timing. I had it set at 0 TDC for assembly. Tonight, I loosened the clamp and rotated the distributor slightly forwards and backwards, but no change. I have heard it should at least start at 0TDC, correct?

How can I be sure what it is set on if it won't start?

[malcolm2]

Is the brown wire from the dual relay grounded ?

I put one lead into the back of the dual relay block (brown wire) and one on the - of the battery.... continuity! any other way to check that?

[malcolm2]

Sounds like the FI is doing its job. However the timing might be the issue now

So you think I should verify 0 TDC? How do I do that in an air cooled car. I have a FWD Cabriolet that I can turn the engine by hand, but this car?????

Do I do it at the fan, that I cannot see or remember if there is even a nut on the fan?

I guess I could remove #1 plug, bump the engine. Insert a screwdriver. At a high point check the rotor button??

[timothy_nd28]

No need, your FI is working. We went thru the whole system earlier with no problems other than a disconnected ground wire (fixed now). You verified the working nature of the FI by using your noid light and physically seen fuel spraying. It's in the timing now or wrong firing order. Can you post a pic of your dizzy and a pic of the rotor when pointing to number one at TDC?

[malcolm2]

No need, your FI is working. We went thru the whole system earlier with no problems other than a disconnected ground wire (fixed now). You verified the working nature of the FI by using your noid light and physically seen fuel spraying. It's in the timing now or wrong firing order. Can you post a pic of your dizzy and a pic of the rotor when pointing to number one at TDC?

HERE YOU GO>>> Sorry the pictures are oriented differently, but the timing hole is closest to #1. So turn your head a bit, while looking at the 2nd picture.... (IMG:style_emoticons/default/happy11.gif)

[Mblizzard]

I had a similar problem many years ago. It turned I had installed the dizzy drive gear 180 degrees out. All of my checks said it should run but I got nothing but flames out the exhaust pipes and backfires.

Not saying that you did the same, but it took me along time before i checked the drive gear.

[malcolm2]

I had a similar problem many years ago. It turned I had installed the dizzy drive gear 180 degrees out. All of my checks said it should run but I got nothing but flames out the exhaust pipes and backfires.

Not saying that you did the same, but it took me along time before i checked the drive gear.

That may be where I am heading... but I got no flames. Is #1 on the dizzy closest to the driver?

[timothy_nd28]

K, can you remove the valve cover and wiggle the rocker arms for the number one cylinder. Do they wiggle ?

[malcolm2]

K, can you remove the valve cover and wiggle the rocker arms for the number one cylinder. Do they wiggle ?

I did that on the other side, to see if I was getting movement. Give me a minute and I'll check #1 for wiggle.

the left one wiggles. the right does not... just thought of something.... should I have the rotor button pointing at #1? It is not in this picture.

[davesprinkle]

Sounds like the FI is doing its job. However the timing might be the issue now

So you think I should verify 0 TDC? How do I do that in an air cooled car. I have a FWD Cabriolet that I can turn the engine by hand, but this car?????

Do I do it at the fan, that I cannot see or remember if there is even a nut on the fan?

I guess I could remove #1 plug, bump the engine. Insert a screwdriver. At a high point check the rotor button??

Rotating the engine on a 914 can be a little more challenging than other cars. I use an adjustable wrench on the alternator nut. You have to use your left hand and do it by feel, but it's possible.

Set your timing statically before you attempt to run:
1) Put in a fresh set of points and establish the gap at 0.016".
2) The Ljet cars have only 1 timing mark, located at 7.5 degrees ATDC. You'll need to use an inspection mirror to find the mark. Position the crank so that the mark is lined up in the v-notch of the fan housing.
3) Get a continuity checker (a continuity light or the beep function on a multi-meter). Measure continuity between the short green lead of the points and the housing of the distributor.
4) While watching (or listening) to your continuity meter, rotate the distributor until EXACTLY that point where the continuity goes away, no further. Do this very carefully, moving the distributor slowly. Tighten the distributor clamp.
5) Install the rotor and cap. Install the plug wires with the order 1-4-3-2, clockwise around the cap. Ensure that the #1 plug wire is connected to the cap in the position immediately above the rotor. (I'm assuming that the crank is still located so that the timing mark is aligned with the v-groove.)
6) Verify that the points are connected to the condensor and that the condensor wire is connected to the minus contact on the coil. Verify that the injector loom lead is also connected to the minus side of the coil. Verify that when the ignition switch is on you've got 12V at the plus side of the coil.
7) Now try to start the car.

Good luck.

[malcolm2]

K, can you remove the valve cover and wiggle the rocker arms for the number one cylinder. Do they wiggle ?

I did that on the other side, to see if I was getting movement. Give me a minute and I'll check #1 for wiggle.

the left one wiggles. the right does not... just thought of something.... should I have the rotor button pointing at #1? It is not in this picture.

I rechecked at very close to #1 TDC and I got NO WIGGLE. One valve is UP, and one is DOWN. I can snap another picture?

[timothy_nd28]

K, can you remove the valve cover and wiggle the rocker arms for the number one cylinder. Do they wiggle ?

I did that on the other side, to see if I was getting movement. Give me a minute and I'll check #1 for wiggle.

the left one wiggles. the right does not... just thought of something.... should I have the rotor button pointing at #1? It is not in this picture.

You should have valve lash wiggle on both rockers when piston number one is at TDC. Since you don't, tells me that number one isn't at tdc or valve lash isn't set right. Worse case scenario the cam wasn't meshed up with the crank correctly (I hope not). Your dizzy drive gear could be off as well. First thing is first, you must find TDC on piston one, making sure both rocker are relaxed and move by hand.

[Mblizzard]

I had a similar problem many years ago. It turned I had installed the dizzy drive gear 180 degrees out. All of my checks said it should run but I got nothing but flames out the exhaust pipes and backfires.

Not saying that you did the same, but it took me along time before i checked the drive gear.

That may be where I am heading... but I got no flames. Is #1 on the dizzy closest to the driver?

Long story but a summary is that I had dumped a lot of fuel in the exhaust and on the times it did cough a bit out came flames.

[timothy_nd28]

Don't put anything into the spark plug hole

[malcolm2]

You should have valve lash wiggle on both rockers when piston number one is at TDC. Since you don't, tells me that number one isn't at tdc or valve lash isn't set right. Worse case scenario the cam wasn't meshed up with the crank correctly (I hope not). Your dizzy drive gear could be off as well. First thing is first, you must find TDC on piston one, making sure both rocker are relaxed and move by hand.

Keyword: FIND? So when the piston is at TDC, both valves are closed?

Should I bump the engine and check for wiggle? How do I find? I have taken the #1 plug out and don't seem to be able to feel high or low. Is it too much of an angle to feel with a punch or screw driver?

As I mentioned, I now have the rotor button pointing close to #1 (the mark on the dizzy) and my valves are not CLOSED.

[Mblizzard]

Verify that you #1 viewed from sitting in the car, is the left rear cylinder.



Disregard the arrow that says direction of travel.

[timothy_nd28]

I find it easy to put the passenger rear wheel on the ground. Jack up the rear driver side wheel and put the car in 5th gear. Spin the wheel by hand